Marriage and Baptism

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dal11

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i need help explaining something to someone. can someone explain why when someone converts to the catholic faith you don’t have to get rebaptized but in marriage you do,. even though the church excepts both in the protestant circle. thankyou
 
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dal11:
i need help explaining something to someone. can someone explain why when someone converts to the catholic faith you don’t have to get rebaptized but in marriage you do,. even though the church excepts both in the protestant circle. thankyou
There is ONE Baptism according to St. Paul. Once Baptized you can never be “re-baptized”. A validly Baptized protestant Christian who wishes to come into full union with the Catholic Church is never “re-baptized”. A validly Baptized protestant Christian who wishes to Marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church or a validly Baptized Protestant who becomes Catholic and wishes to Marry, is never required to be “re-Baptized”.
 
I don’t understand the question. Are you asking why Catholics are required to marry in the catholic church even if a ceremony already took place in the Protestant Church?

Is this about convalidation?:confused:
 
i am asking if i’m a protestant and convert i don’t have to be rebaptized, but if i’m a protestant and convert i do have to be married in the catholic church. even though the catholic church reconized my marriage as valid
 
The Catholic Church counts marriage as a sacrament. Protestant Churches do not. There are some instances where the Catholic Church will recognize a Protestant marriage as being sacramental. In this case the couple dioes not have to be remarried; a blessing by a priest is sufficient.
 
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dal11:
i am asking if i’m a protestant and convert i don’t have to be rebaptized, but if i’m a protestant and convert i do have to be married in the catholic church. even though the catholic church reconized my marriage as valid
If your a Baptized Protestant who married validly ( without any prior marriage for either you or your spouse) then that Marriage is recognized as valid in the Catholic Church and no other action is necessary. However if the Marriage is a second or third for either of you. An Annulment process must be followed and if granted then the Marriage must be Convalidated.
 
I had a case where a Jewish couple with a valid, non-sacramental marriage were both baptized into the Catholic Church a few years back. Upon their baptism their marriage became sacramental with no further action required.
 
OK, can someone knowledgeable help me out here? Say a man has divorced and remarried a non-Catholic, but never got an annulment. Years later, the new wife decides to become a Catholic. Is it true that she must be married in the Catholic Church in order to be baptized? (Thereby, requiring her husband to get an annulment?) I learned in school that you had to get an annulment to be married in the Church, but I’ve never heard of marriage in the Church being a pre-requiste to baptism. Anyone know the facts?
 
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WantsToKnow:
OK, can someone knowledgeable help me out here? Say a man has divorced and remarried a non-Catholic, but never got an annulment. Years later, the new wife decides to become a Catholic. Is it true that she must be married in the Catholic Church in order to be baptized? (Thereby, requiring her husband to get an annulment?) I learned in school that you had to get an annulment to be married in the Church, but I’ve never heard of marriage in the Church being a pre-requiste to baptism. Anyone know the facts?
I think the problem lies more in the fact that she is married to a married man. Meaning that until the husband gets an annullment, he is still considered married in the eyes of the church. She is involved in an adulterous situation. Again, keep in mind that the church will view him as still being married to the first wife until proven otherwise through the annullment process. Once the annullment process is complete, and provided the annullment is granted she can then receive the sacraments in the church and have her marriage convalidated, which simply means blessed by the church. This is not the same as having a wedding in the church, although there are many who will turn this into a big celebration and invite many guests to witness the joyful event. This is an event that can be done privately or with guests. The convalidation is done so that the couple can move forward knowing that the church recognizes thier marriage as a sacramental one.
 
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WantsToKnow:
OK, can someone knowledgeable help me out here? Say a man has divorced and remarried a non-Catholic, but never got an annulment. Years later, the new wife decides to become a Catholic. Is it true that she must be married in the Catholic Church in order to be baptized? (Thereby, requiring her husband to get an annulment?) I learned in school that you had to get an annulment to be married in the Church, but I’ve never heard of marriage in the Church being a pre-requiste to baptism. Anyone know the facts?
This is basically true. Another alternative is for the wife to repent of her adulterous situation and obtain a civil divorce from her husband; this is another way she could join the Catholic Church.

If the husband’s first marriage is valid, so that no annulment is possible, then civil divorce is the only means to allow the wife to join the Catholic Church.

(If the couple are raising small children, so both parents are still required in the household, then an exception to the general rule above would allow the wife to join the Church as long as the couple to agree to live as brother and sister, and that the wife only receive the sacraments in a parish where she is not known, to avoid scandal.)
 
it is not mandatory for every baptized person who enters into full communion with the Catholic church to be remarried. It depends on the individual’s situation with many variables, such as was either party married before this union, the circumstances of this union. Every case is different and must be examined by the pastor before the person begins preparation to join the Church. One answer does not fit every case.
 
How far into preparation would a person be before the pastor let him or her know that the marriage thing could be a problem (generally - I know different parishes could have different schedules, etc.)?

To open another can of worms: Is the Church’s stance on annullment still that to annull a marriage is to say that it never existed? That’s what I remember, but this is of course catechism 15 years ago.
 
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WantsToKnow:
How far into preparation would a person be before the pastor let him or her know that the marriage thing could be a problem (generally - I know different parishes could have different schedules, etc.)?.
I try to get action started on this as soon as possible, since it may be the long pole in the tent. I usually ask when the person first contacts me. Errors happen and questions that should be asked are sometimes forgotten; so bring it up yourself as soon as possible.
To open another can of worms: Is the Church’s stance on annulment still that to annul a marriage is to say that it never existed? That’s what I remember, but this is of course catechism 15 years ago.
Exactly, it never existed as a sacramental marriage. It was a legal, putative marriage so any children are legitimate.
 
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dal11:
i need help explaining something to someone. can someone explain why when someone converts to the catholic faith you don’t have to get rebaptized but in marriage you do,. even though the church excepts both in the protestant circle. thankyou
Um, the answer is that you do not need to be “remarried.” If both parties are validly married (i.e., first marriage for both) then there is no need to remarry unless one of the parties was already Catholic and the marriage took place outside the auspices of the Church. If that were the case, a convalidation (blessing of the marriage) would need to take place.

Now, if either party had been married before then the Church would need to look at the marriage to see if the present one is valid or not. Even then, a remarriage is normally unlikely.
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WantsToKnow:
OK, can someone knowledgeable help me out here? Say a man has divorced and remarried a non-Catholic, but never got an annulment. Years later, the new wife decides to become a Catholic. Is it true that she must be married in the Catholic Church in order to be baptized? (Thereby, requiring her husband to get an annulment?) I learned in school that you had to get an annulment to be married in the Church, but I’ve never heard of marriage in the Church being a pre-requiste to baptism. Anyone know the facts?
If she wants to come into the Church her marriage would have to be examined to see if it’s valid. This means the man’s first marriage would have to be submitted to the annulment process. If an annulment is granted she would be permitted to enter the Church. If it is not, she cannot enter the Church while in that “irregular union.”

Deacon Ed
 
Thanks to everyone who responded…I really appreciate it. One more question: What happens if the former spouse contests the annullment? I’ve always heard talk of “she won’t give him an annullment” and believed that both parties had to be consenting. Now I hear that it doesn’t matter; the Church may consider contesting as a sign that the marriage was ill-advised to begin with…But what if I don’t want an annullment because I believe my marriage was sacramental and did exist?
 
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WantsToKnow:
I’ve always heard talk of “she won’t give him an annullment” and believed that both parties had to be consenting.
It’s very similar to the old movies (before the days of no-fault divorce) where you hear the husband complaining that his wife won’t give him a divorce.

Prior to 1970 in the U.S. (or 1973 for the rest of the world), only the “innocent party” could file for an annulment. So if a man went into a marriage without intending to be faithful, the marriage would be invalid because of that partial simulation of the marriage vows, but only the wife could file for annulment on those grounds. So if she refused to file, there was nothing the husband could do.

Now there is no such restriction; this is one of the reasons there are a lot more annulments today.
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WantsToKnow:
But what if I don’t want an annullment because I believe my marriage was sacramental and did exist?
Both spouses have the opportunity to contribute evidence, both pro and con, to the annulment proceedings. If one of the spouses feels their rights aren’t being respected, they can hire a canon lawyer to represent them.
 
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WantsToKnow:
…But what if I don’t want an annullment because I believe my marriage was sacramental and did exist?
Then, if it is granted, you quick appeal to Rome.

Every Decree must be appealed and reviewed by a second court. Usually it automatically goes to an adjacent diocese. However, either spouse can appeal to Rome. The Vatican Courts tend to have a much stricter interpretation of the rules.

Note that Kennedy didn’t pursue his request after his ex appealed to Rome.
 
What is the point of an annulment then? If I can just file and get one, how’s that different from a divorce? “Updating” the rules has clearly defeated the purpose and meaning of an annulment. If there are no consequences, then why have the rule? And please don’t say you’re changing things in God’s eyes because He didn’t make the rule. Seems like the Church just wants to make money at $500 a pop.
 
Only invalid marriages can be annulled. The point of the rule change was to make sure that all invalid marriages could be annulled, so that the internal forum solution would no longer be needed. (Or at least that’s what the Pennsylvania bishops said.)

There is not, nor has there ever been, a “guarantee” that any broken marriage can be annulled.
 
So what is the definition of invalid? Divorced? And just because an annullment isn’t “guaranteed” does not mean that it’s difficult to get regardless of your ex-spouse’s wishes.
 
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