Marriage and celibacy

[Snowy]

I need your help. 15 years ago I married in Court a loving, caring and beautiful woman, and she married a decent Humanist, not a Catholic. Two weeks ago I was graced with faith in Jesus, and I believe that our Church has preserved his teachings as best as it’s humanly possible. I accept our doctrines as coming from people who are closer to God’s ear than I am. Since I learned about our Church’s position on sexual relations I have been completely celibate (8 days). I can deal with the lust that I feel for my wife, and I can deal with the physical pain (I didn’t know it would hurt), but know my wife is angry with me. In her own words: “Your God is offended for being together with your wife? What your God wants is for everybody to love each other! How can you put your church ahead of me? I didn’t sign up for this!”

Please convince me that what I’m doing is right, and that the Church’s position on sex is not just the sadistic machinations of some sex deprived, skirt-wearing religious fanatics!

God bless you all.

 

[Danuska]

8 days is not complete celibate

But frankly, I do not know what your problem is! You are married, in fact, the Church talks about something like conjugal rights - so if you are not having sex with your wife you are actually committing a sin…

what the Church teaches is the opposition to artificial brith control (that might involve some celibacy for a few days a months), otherwise, if you are married you should not obstain from sex, unless you decide to take some special vows (there were cases like that in the history of the Church, mostly those people did that after having kids), but then, the decision should come from both of you and you should have the approval of your spiritual director or I do not know who else - I am not an expert on that. But remember the book I read by one of the priests - he said that if you obstain from sex - you are actually selfish - not thinking about your spouse’s needs and which can lead him or her into seeking some extra-marital relations even.

 

[Danuska]

I think I missed one part - you were not married in Church? Is that right? Well… why don’t you do that ASAP?

 

[bpbasilphx]

Have you considered bringing this question to your pastor?

 

[1ke]

I need your help. 15 years ago I married in Court a loving, caring and beautiful woman, and she married a decent Humanist, not a Catholic.

Since I learned about our Church’s position on sexual relations I have been completely celibate (8 days).

Ok, I’m confused as to why you would be abstaining from relations with your wife. And, maybe you are confused too and abstaining unnecessarily.

First-- what, specifically, is this “position” on sexual relations that you have learned about that has driven you to abstain completely?

Secondly-- you aren’t specific regarding the details of your marriage. You state only that you were married civilly. Is this the first marriage for both of you? Were either of you baptized as Catholics or in the Orthodox Church at any point in your life?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Based on the information posted the marriage would be presumed valid. If you were baptized catholic BEFORE the marriage there will be issues which are corrected before you become a full member of the church.

 

[Snowy]

Thank you, sisters and brothers. I was baptized as a baby but have never been a wilful Catholic until now. I’m working on getting our marriage convalidated, but it’s going to take a while for me to get hold of a certificate of baptism. After we get married, I don’t know what I’m going to do about the fact that my wife is done having children and takes birth control pills. I feel more comfortable asking you folks in the anonimity of the internet. Please try to use your apologetic abilities to justify the Church’s position on sex. All the Catholics I’ve ever known took those teachings with a grain of salt and I’m feeling like a sucker. Thanks again, and God bless you.

 

[puzzleannie]

celibate means unmarried
the word for married persons who choose not to engage in sexual relations for a period of time is continent.
the word for the virtue that everyone must practice according to their state in life with regard to sexuality is chastity.

note for all those contemplating entering the Catholic Church. Do not make assumptions about your personal marriage situation based on the experience of others, esp. others in your RCIA class. The proper person to guide you is the pastor. See him first before jumping to conclusions. If you are Catholic, you can talk to him in confession, and make an appointment for further counselling outside confession if there is a need. If you are not Catholic, simply make an appointment and be up front and totally honest about your situation.

If you did not get your advice to remain continent from a priest who knows your situation, you did not get the whole story. Please make this appointment today.

 

[1ke]

Thank you, sisters and brothers. I was baptized as a baby but have never been a wilful Catholic until now. I’m working on getting our marriage convalidated, but it’s going to take a while for me to get hold of a certificate of baptism. After we get married, I don’t know what I’m going to do about the fact that my wife is done having children and takes birth control pills. I feel more comfortable asking you folks in the anonimity of the internet. Please try to use your apologetic abilities to justify the Church’s position on sex. All the Catholics I’ve ever known took those teachings with a grain of salt and I’m feeling like a sucker. Thanks again, and God bless you.

Ah! So you are living in continence until your convalidation happens. Got it. Yes, that is the right path. Talk to your priest for pastoral guidance on this issue.

You need to talk to your priest for pastoral guidance on the issue of the non-Catholic spouse contracepting. You do not commit a sin by having relations with your wife if *she *refuses Church teaching. You are repsonsible for your own actions, therefore you cannot contracept (condoms, vasectomy, etc).

Talk to your priest, don’t be embarrassed. You need pastoral guidance, not just facts and doctrine.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Thank you, sisters and brothers. I was baptized as a baby but have never been a wilful Catholic until now. I’m working on getting our marriage convalidated, but it’s going to take a while for me to get hold of a certificate of baptism. After we get married, I don’t know what I’m going to do about the fact that my wife is done having children and takes birth control pills. I feel more comfortable asking you folks in the anonimity of the internet. Please try to use your apologetic abilities to justify the Church’s position on sex. All the Catholics I’ve ever known took those teachings with a grain of salt and I’m feeling like a sucker. Thanks again, and God bless you.

Have you had first communion?
If you did not complete a ccd/RCIA/private instruction, then your natural marriage condition seems to be of little weight? Typically you would attend RCIA, please invite her along. Then complete three sacraments reconciliation, Eucharist, and confirmation. The marriage convalidation should be easy after the other sacraments.

 

[Il_Cattivo]

I have no idea whats going on here, but its*** REALLY*** unhealthy for your marriage if you deny her sex. its actually a sin and can be demonstrated sola scriptura. and she shouldn’t be on birth control.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I need your help. 15 years ago I married in Court a loving, caring and beautiful woman, and she married a decent Humanist, not a Catholic. Two weeks ago I was graced with faith in Jesus, and I believe that our Church has preserved his teachings as best as it’s humanly possible. I accept our doctrines as coming from people who are closer to God’s ear than I am. Since I learned about our Church’s position on sexual relations I have been completely celibate (8 days). I can deal with the lust that I feel for my wife, and I can deal with the physical pain (I didn’t know it would hurt), but know my wife is angry with me. In her own words: “Your God is offended for being together with your wife? What your God wants is for everybody to love each other! How can you put your church ahead of me? I didn’t sign up for this!”

Please convince me that what I’m doing is right, and that the Church’s position on sex is not just the sadistic machinations of some sex deprived, skirt-wearing religious fanatics!

God bless you all.

As others of said, you are in a long-term marriage. After 15 years you know her well enough and know enough about sex to not worry about the Church’s position, which as others of said there is nothing here. Break your 8 day fast and enjoy your intimate time with her as you always have. Humanist or Catholic it does not matter at this stage.

 

[1ke]

As others of said, you are in a long-term marriage. After 15 years you know her well enough and know enough about sex to not worry about the Church’s position,

Au contraire. He is absolutely right to be concerned with the state of his marriage-- which is invalid.

which as others of said there is nothing here.

You must have missed Snowy’s second post where he specifically gives information regarding his baptism as a Catholic. His marriage outside the Church makes that marriage invalid at present. He is working on convalidation.

Break your 8 day fast and enjoy your intimate time with her as you always have. Humanist or Catholic it does not matter at this stage.

Advising a Catholic to commit a morally wrong act is itself grave matter.

Yes, it does matter.

 

[1ke]

I have no idea whats going on here, but its*** REALLY*** unhealthy for your marriage if you deny her sex. its actually a sin and can be demonstrated sola scriptura.

This only applies in a valid marriage.

The OP clarified that he is currently in an invalid marriage and is working on convalidation.

and she shouldn’t be on birth control.

The OP knows that. However, the wife is not a Catholic and he cannot force her to adopt his beliefs.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Au contraire. He is absolutely right to be concerned with the state of his marriage-- which is invalid.

You must have missed Snowy’s second post where he specifically gives information regarding his baptism as a Catholic. His marriage outside the Church makes that marriage invalid at present. He is working on convalidation.

Advising a Catholic to commit a morally wrong act is itself grave matter.

Yes, it does matter.

The OP’s marriage I assume is a civil marriage, which is valid. Not having the Catholic ceremony does not mean civil marriage alone is invalid.

He is not living in sin as he was not a member in the Church when he was first married 15yrs ago. The ring went on 15yrs with the same commitment he would have made had it been the normal joint Catholic/civil ceremony (e.g. priest in charge of civil marriage formalities). From his post that has not changed.

Yes, he is working on getting both, but he is still married, which is all that matters. He is no less married since he converted than before he converted. The Catholic Church recognizes civil marriages (man-woman marriages right now) (though they prefer they also have the in-Church one). There is no sin here, though he is working on getting both.

 

[Seatuck]

The OP’s marriage I assume is a civil marriage, which is valid. Not having the Catholic ceremony does not mean civil marriage alone is invalid.

He is not living in sin as he was not a member in the Church when he was first married 15yrs ago. The ring went on 15yrs with the same commitment he would have made had it been the normal joint Catholic/civil ceremony (e.g. priest in charge of civil marriage formalities). From his post that has not changed.

Yes, he is working on getting both, but he is still married, which is all that matters. He is no less married since he converted than before he converted. The Catholic Church recognizes civil marriages (man-woman marriages right now) (though they prefer they also have the in-Church one). There is no sin here, though he is working on getting both.

Yes , he is a member of the church by virtue of his Catholic baptism. He also bears the responsibilities due to that same baptism.

However, since it seems he was not educated and taught how to practice in the faith .Because of the negative consequences that living continently might cause he may be able to live as if his marriage is valid because of the cirumstances as long as he is under spiritual/pastoral direction. May. Not definitely.

Snowy, you really need to seek the counsel of a priest.

 

[1ke]

The OP’s marriage I assume is a civil marriage, which is valid. Not having the Catholic ceremony does not mean civil marriage alone is invalid.

The OP is a CATHOLIC.

Therefore his civil marriage is invalid. See his post where he states he was baptized as a Catholic.

He is not living in sin as he was not a member in the Church when he was first married 15yrs ago.

Again, I think you missed his statement he was baptized Catholic as a child.

Yes, he is working on getting both, but he is still married, which is all that matters. He is no less married since he converted than before he converted. The Catholic Church recognizes civil marriages (man-woman marriages right now) (though they prefer they also have the in-Church one). There is no sin here, though he is working on getting both.

This would be quite true for a non-Catholic. The OP is not a non-Catholic.

 

[Lil_Cat]

Ok, I didn’t read through all the posts, so please forgive me if this has already been said.

I was in your wife’s exact same position about a month ago. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go talk to your priest. My husband took the word of a random internet poster and we abstained for 6 weeks. Yes, it is not a long time, but I cannot tell you enough how much it hurt me that my husband would not have sex with me because of some people here on the forums told him not to (we are waiting on a convalidation).

I know lots of posters are going to jump on me and say I’m wrong, but please don’t listen to anyone here that tells you one way or another and PLEASE go see a priest. This will mess with your wife’s head for a long time, and as the non-Catholic spouse in my marriage that had the same situation, I speak from experience.

I will definitely be praying for you two.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The OP is a CATHOLIC.

Therefore his civil marriage is invalid. See his post where he states he was baptized as a Catholic.

Again, I think you missed his statement he was baptized Catholic as a child.

This would be quite true for a non-Catholic. The OP is not a non-Catholic.

1ke
I agree with your posting however there seems to be an issue of weight

Ok, I didn’t read through all the posts, so please forgive me if this has already been said.

I was in your wife’s exact same position about a month ago. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go talk to your priest. My husband took the word of a random internet poster and we abstained for 6 weeks. Yes, it is not a long time, but I cannot tell you enough how much it hurt me that my husband would not have sex with me because of some people here on the forums told him not to (we are waiting on a convalidation).

I know lots of posters are going to jump on me and say I’m wrong, but please don’t listen to anyone here that tells you one way or another and PLEASE go see a priest. This will mess with your wife’s head for a long time, and as the non-Catholic spouse in my marriage that had the same situation, I speak from experience.

I will definitely be praying for you two.

I hope no one jumps on you, that would do no good. The issue seems to be since the OP has attempted Natural Marriage against the guides of the Church’s teaching, the OP has now accept two covenants. Dismissing either covenant seems improper. Certainly aligning the two is the answer.

 

[puzzleannie]

OP has not–and should not–given enough info here for anyone to venture advice on a subject that is matter for confession. his proper course of actions is to see his priest today to discuss his personal situation, not to take spiritual advice on a matter of this import from strangers on an internet forum

anyone who would like to discuss church teaching on marriage etc. is invited to do so on the appropriate forum, but not to presume to give advice to specific individuals in specific cases, which should be against forum rules, for the same reason giving medical advice is against the rules.