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HNA444
Guest
Ok, so when it comes to marriage … is anything sexual besides sex considered a sin? Because, in my opinion, anything else is kind of dirty and I would never ever do. But, is it wrong if someone does do it?
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teachccd
Guest
Are you talking about foreplay? What is “dirty” about loving your spouse? I’m not sure that I understand your question. God does not intend for us to just have intercourse and that’s it if that is what you are asking. I can almost bet that another frequent poster on this forum will come in here and counter my answer but everyone else will tell you that foreplay is not a sin when it involves only you and your spouse and done in the context of the marital embrace… teachccd
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HNA444
Guest
I don’t feel comfortable saying the words, but giving head, or “going down” , along those lines.
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bnbkaine
Guest
As long as you are not using your spouse as a means to an end, meaning that she is willing, and that you finish where you are not obstructing a life to be created, meaning that you finish where you should, then you are okay.
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Bookcat
Guest
Sex in marriage is holy…good…if it is unitive…open to life…
But Yes…there are ways the married can sin sexually…not only lust and adultery and contraception…
too many aspects though to your question…
so here get this book from Catholic Answers:
shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=70&cat=25&page=1
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Paul1961
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I take it you’re not married. Are you even 18 years old?
When I was a 10 year old boy, I remember thinking that “kissing a girl” would be gross. I was wrong.
You seem to have such a negative sense of sex. Sex, foreplay included, can be a very powerful bonding, loving, glorious experience between a husband and wife. Mutual oral foreplay with a willing spouse isn’t gross. It can be awesome. Pleasurable, trusting, unitive, giving etc. Sex, including foreplay, should be a celebration of your marital love.
Fill the glass; don’t empty it.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
Here is a set of questions and answers which I wrote in order to answer some of the most commonly asked questions on Catholic marital sexual ethics. The answers are
Questions and Answers on Catholic Marital Sexual Ethics
catechism.cc/articles/QA.htm
Some anonymous posters, speaking in an authoritative-sounding manner but with no coherent theological explanation, will tell you otherwise. But the answers that I give in that article are based on the definitive teachings of the Magisterium on the basic principles of morality and on the unitive and procreative meaning of marital relations.
Pope Paul VI: “The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. This particular doctrine, often expounded by the magisterium of the Church, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.” (Humanae Vitae, n. 11-12).
“Lastly comes the sin of not observing the right manner of copulation, which is more grievous if the abuse regards the ‘vas’ [vessel, orifice] than if it affects the manner of copulation in respect of other circumstances.” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II-II, Q. 154, article 12).
“Consequently, circumstances or intentions can never transform an act, intrinsically evil by virtue of its object, into an act ‘subjectively’ good or defensible as a choice.” (Pope John Paul II, Veritatis Splendor, n. 81)
“No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.” (Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, n. 62)
“But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who, in exercising it, deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious.” (Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii, n. 54)
“No difficulty can arise that justifies the putting aside of the law of God which forbids all acts intrinsically evil. There is no possible circumstance in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted.” (Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii, n. 61)
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Bookcat
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Readers please note:
These web pages above are **not **recommended sources for Catholic sexual ethics…other areas too are of private opinion or are problematic or incorrect from a theological or canonical view or indeed taken out of context and misapplied.
He has been know to assert that his personal views in certain areas (which are not the views of the Catholic Church) as the definitive views of the Magisterium …where as they are not.
Instead seek out sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and books for sale from Catholic Answers.
shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=70&cat=25&page=1
and while I have not read this one…it is new from the host of Catholic Answers who has degree in Theology from the same University that I have my degree in Theology from …Franciscan University of Steubenville…where Dr. Hahn etc teach…so he has a good background…
shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=16717&cat=20&page=2
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Ron_Conte
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Saint Augustine on marital sexual ethics:
“…nor be changed into that use which is against nature, on which the Apostle could not be silent, when speaking of the excessive corruptions of unclean and impious men… by changing the natural use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 11).
“For, whereas that natural use, when it pass beyond the compact of marriage, that is, beyond the necessity of begetting, is pardonable in the case of a wife, damnable in the case of an harlot; that which is against nature is execrable when done in the case of an harlot, but more execrable in the case of a wife… But, when the man shall wish to use the member of the wife not allowed for this purpose, the wife is more shameful, if she suffer it to take place in her own case, than if in the case of another woman.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 12).
“…nor be changed into that use which is against nature, on which the Apostle could not be silent, when speaking of the excessive corruptions of unclean and impious men… by changing the natural use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 11).
“For, whereas that natural use, when it pass beyond the compact of marriage, that is, beyond the necessity of begetting, is pardonable in the case of a wife, damnable in the case of an harlot; that which is against nature is execrable when done in the case of an harlot, but more execrable in the case of a wife… But, when the man shall wish to use the member of the wife not allowed for this purpose, the wife is more shameful, if she suffer it to take place in her own case, than if in the case of another woman.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 12).
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teachccd
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You are the frequent poster that I mentioned on post #2. I won that bet. There you go again twisting Church documents to the Ron Conte school of theology. You simply cannot come to terms that the “marital act” involves foreplay. Your resources refer to contraception and other deviations from the conjugal love of a husband and a wife. Nowhere does the Church teach that a husband must go right to intercourse as if that is exhaustive of the marital act. You are mistaken and you continue to pop up and give this same advice which stems from your ultra conservative misinterpretations of Church teachings.
And for as many times as I’ve asked you, you never state what is acceptable in the marriage bed. Is it just undress, intercourse and goodnight? Is that really what the Church teaches? Can you please answer this or are you merely going to dazzle us with the numerous quotations from the magisterium without any clarification?
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Julianna
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I think what you do in the bedroom should be kept…in the bedroom. Your sexual experience or what “goes on” is up to the two people in “the bedroom”.
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Bookcat
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puzzleannie
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why would any part of mutual sharing and complete giving of their bodies and their selves to each other be dirty for married couples? What leads you to think so? A very beneficial book distilling Catholic teaching, as expressed by Pope John Paul II in his addresses, is Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West, you can also read the longer, fuller explanations in Theology of the Body, there is also a book for beginners with excellent intro.
It is quite acceptable when discussing these matters in their proper context (and I am not convinced an internet forum is the place for it) with using standard medical terminology, rather than scatalogical or street language. Anything is permitted between spouses which furthers mutual pleasure and proper use of the gift of sexuality with the intent to eventually enter into the marriage act in the way God and nature intended, as long as nothing is done to deliberately thwart the natural means and manner of climax, and as long as the activities are mutual pleasing and acceptable to both parties.
repeat ad nauseum: on these forums we attempt to give authentic Catholic teaching, and apply it generally, and when asked, offer personal opinion but we cannot and are not competent to advise individuals on their personal situations, especially on matter for confession. If you have a question about your personal moral decision making see your priest, that is why he is there.
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Ron_Conte
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The three fonts of morality always apply.
Each and every knowing choice is moral or immoral based on those three fonts.
A knowingly chosen act is moral if it has a good intention and a good moral object and the good consequences outweigh the bad consequences.
A knowingly chosen act is immoral if any one font is bad, e.g. a bad intention, or an evil moral object, or if the bad consequences outweigh the good.
Acts are not automatically moral merely by being used for the purpose (or intention) of foreplay. All three fonts must be good.
I believe that the Magisterium’s clear and definitive teaching on the three fonts of morality, on intrinsic evil, and on the unitive and procreative meanings of marital relations, necessarily implies that certain types of so-called foreplay are gravely immoral.
Each and every knowing choice is moral or immoral based on those three fonts.
A knowingly chosen act is moral if it has a good intention and a good moral object and the good consequences outweigh the bad consequences.
A knowingly chosen act is immoral if any one font is bad, e.g. a bad intention, or an evil moral object, or if the bad consequences outweigh the good.
Acts are not automatically moral merely by being used for the purpose (or intention) of foreplay. All three fonts must be good.
I believe that the Magisterium’s clear and definitive teaching on the three fonts of morality, on intrinsic evil, and on the unitive and procreative meanings of marital relations, necessarily implies that certain types of so-called foreplay are gravely immoral.
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ThomasToo
Guest
Please note these are not necessarily accurate sources on Catholic Moral Theology. One is instead encouraged to utilize the sources provided by Catholic Answers.
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OraLabora
Guest
I think what you do in the bedroom should be kept…in the bedroom. Your sexual experience or what “goes on” is up to the two people in “the bedroom”.
Never ceases to amaze me, the deeply personal information that people post here.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
The marital bedroom is not exempt from the moral law.I think what you do in the bedroom should be kept…in the bedroom. Your sexual experience or what “goes on” is up to the two people in “the bedroom”.
Second Vatican Council: “…there is no human activity which can be withdrawn from God’s dominion.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 36.)
USCCB Catechism: “Every moral act consists of three elements: the objective act (what we do), the subjective goal or intention (why we do the act), and the concrete situation or circumstances in which we perform the act… All three aspects must be good – the objective act, the subjective intention, and the circumstances – in order to have a morally good act.” (United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, p. 311-312.)
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ThomasToo
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I believe the context was more that we here on the forums don’t need to hear all about what two people do and how and when.
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JBCatholicRN
Guest
So you think oral sex is dirty and wrong?
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teachccd
Guest
Could you elaborate which types are not? Or is EVERYTHING outside of intercourse gravely immoral? You continue to fail in answering this question for me. Just give me a straight answer and show me and others here enough respect by clarifying exactly what is allowed in the marital embrace. “Certain types of so-called foreplay” leaves open for other types. Might you PLEASE mention what those might be??
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