Marriage and Sex

[valient_Lucy]

I think we have a couple of different debates going on here…

Oh, there are at least three or four going on in this thread. Bare minimum.

I think what the OP meant was that she finds particular sexual activities unappealing and is uncomfortable with the thought of performing them. That is totally a legitimate opinion, I think anyone would agree.

Thank you. Unfortuantely, some of the earliest posters on this thread did try to make her feel bad for thinking this way. That was what upset me. If a person’s gut reaction to sexual activity of any kind is “that’s dirty,” that reaction should be respected. If we try to change people’s minds on that, especially young girls, we’re teaching girls not to trust their instincts. This places them in a far more vulnerable position when they are being pressured by a boyfriend. Instincts can’t tell you what’s right, but they can actually be pretty good at telling you if something is wrong. If a girl, especially a young one, finds sexual activity “dirty,” we should be encouraging her to follow her instincts, not trying to undermind them!

 

[valient_Lucy]

Absolutely not,assuming the context of validly married husband and wife. There is absolutely nothing dirty about sex as God intended it and the oppinion that it is is not compatible with Catholocism.

An opinion is not the same thing as a religous belief.

If a person says, “I accept that the Church teaches that sex is good in the context of marriage, even though it seems dirty to me,” what is wrong with that?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Absolutely not,assuming the context of validly married husband and wife. There is absolutely nothing dirty about sex as God intended it and the oppinion that it is is not compatible with Catholocism.

I would also like to point out that I was not making this comment to a Catholic, but to a poster who identified his religion as null. I was pointing out that he should respect everyone’s opinions, even if he didn’t like their opinions or disagreed with them.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Oh, there are at least three or four going on in this thread. Bare minimum.

Thank you. Unfortuantely, some of the earliest posters on this thread did try to make her feel bad for thinking this way. That was what upset me. If a person’s gut reaction to sexual activity of any kind is “that’s dirty,” that reaction should be respected. If we try to change people’s minds on that, especially young girls, we’re teaching girls not to trust their instincts. This places them in a far more vulnerable position when they are being pressured by a boyfriend. Instincts can’t tell you what’s right, but they can actually be pretty good at telling you if something is wrong. If a girl, especially a young one, finds sexual activity “dirty,” we should be encouraging her to follow her instincts, not trying to undermind them!

I meant to say undermine.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Absolutely not,assuming the context of validly married husband and wife. There is absolutely nothing dirty about sex as God intended it and the oppinion that it is is not compatible with Catholocism.

I would like to point out that that “sex is dirty” is not the opinion I hold most of the time. (Some of the time it is.) But if a person thinks that, that opinion should be respected. I don’t think it makes them a bad Catholic, or a bad person. And I don’t think that other people should try to change that person’s mind. That would actually be counterproductive; they’ll end up feeling even more negatively about sex than before.

 

[micahmike]

I would like to point out that that “sex is dirty” is not the opinion I hold most of the time. (Some of the time it is.) But if a person thinks that, that opinion should be respected. I don’t think it makes them a bad Catholic, or a bad person. And I don’t think that other people should try to change that person’s mind. That would actually be counterproductive; they’ll end up feeling even more negatively about sex than before.

We are commanded (collectively) to be fruitful and multilply, we cannot do that without sex. If you as a Catholic believe that the Lord is commanding us to commit “dirty” acts, you might want to spend some time in prayer on the matter. The Lord does not allow, much less require, “dirty” actions. If you are not drawn to sex, there’s nothing wrong with that at all - though I’d suggest you think long and hard about why that might be, as it might not come from a healthy place. If you think (even occasionally) that sex between husband and wife is “dirty”, you really need to get some help. Talk to your Priest, read Theology of the Body, pray about it. Marital relations are beautiful, and I’m not certain that there is room in the Church for any other oppinions on the matter. My prayers will be with you.

 

[valient_Lucy]

We are commanded (collectively) to be fruitful and multilply, we cannot do that without sex. If you as a Catholic believe that the Lord is commanding us to commit “dirty” acts, you might want to spend some time in prayer on the matter. The Lord does not allow, much less require, “dirty” actions.

I never said that I believed that sex was dirty, or that God was commanding us to commit dirty acts. I simply said that it doesn’t bother me if other people say that sex is dirty. Why does it bother you?

If you are not drawn to sex, there’s nothing wrong with that at all - though I’d suggest you think long and hard about why that might be, as it might not come from a healthy place.

I never said that I was not drawn to sex. I never said that I didn’t want to have sex. I do.

If you think (even occasionally) that sex between husband and wife is “dirty”, you really need to get some help.

I doubt it. Do I **occasionally **hate my sex drive? Yes. Do I occasionally hate myself for wanting to have sex? Yes. I wrote a thread about that last year. I can find the link for you if you want. And you know what? Most of the people who responded to that thread had felt exactly the same way, at least occasionally. If I need help, then so does every other person who responded to that thread who said that they had those same thoughts themselves. The only difference between me and everyone else is the fact that I have the guts to say it, to admit it.

Talk to your Priest, read Theology of the Body, pray about it.

I’ll take that advice regardless.

Marital relations are beautiful,

Do you know what happens to single people when you tell them that? They feel even more deprived than they already do. They then feel more lonely, stressed out, and are then more likely to succomb to sexual sin. And guess what? After they sin, they feel even worse about themselves, and about sex.

and I’m not certain that there is room in the Church for any other oppinions on the matter.

If I was so inclined I could start posting what the Church Fathers said about sex, but I don’t have the time or inclination to do so.

My prayers will be with you.

Thank you.

 

[micahmike]

I never said that I believed that sex was dirty, or that God was commanding us to commit dirty acts. I simply said that it doesn’t bother me if other people say that sex is dirty. Why does it bother you?

The thought of anyone believing that God commands us to commit dirty acts bothers me because it is incorrect. No more. no less.

Do I **occasionally **hate my sex drive? Yes. Do I occasionally hate myself for wanting to have sex? Yes.

That is a different matter entirly from what I was addressing, or at least intending to address. Any Catholic who has comitted any sort of sexual sin likely resents their sex drive, or at least the disordered portion of it, for a time. I take no issue with that. Then again, resenting a drive which is sometimes seemingly imposible for you to control is not the same as thinking sex is dirty. Sex is not dirty, impure thoughts aboiut sex are dirty.

I wrote a thread about that last year. I can find the link for you if you want. And you know what? Most of the people who responded to that thread had felt exactly the same way, at least occasionally. If I need help, then so does every other person who responded to that thread who said that they had those same thoughts themselves. The only difference between me and everyone else is the fact that I have the guts to say it, to admit it.

It sounds rather personal and I don’t need to read it unless you’d like my feedback on it, in which case I’d be happy to. From what I get so far here, it isn’t about thinking that sex is dirty (when it clearly isn’t) but more about an out-of-control drive with no licit outlets and the struggles that come with it I presume? I so know how that goes.

If I was so inclined I could start posting what the Church Fathers said about sex, but I don’t have the time or inclination to do so.

I’ve likely read most of it, and much of it has to be taken with a grain of salt and in the context of the understanding of the time as I’m sure you well know.

Thank you.

No, Thank you. I like your moxie

 

[Teresa_Lee]

Right up front I will tell you I tried to read all 5 pages of this forum but never quite pulled it off. Too many things started going through my mind, among them society’s general unhealthy view of sex. We play to both extremes, pervert and prude. We forget to realize that many things in their pure form contain several ingredients.

Sex for newlyweds is not the same as sex for post menopausal couples. Obviously the latter can no longer be intimate for the purpose of having a family. Sex for couples who deal with tragedy, illness or disabilities need to manage their intimacy differently than couples who have perfect health.

Marriage is a sacrament, not a sin. Part of that sacrament is uniting physically with a spouse. Two people become one. These two people unite together before God. Their union is not dirty, it is a gift. They are gifts to each other, and sex is the closest union they can have to feel the power and recognize the beauty of that gift.

Considering this, I believe it is wrong to taint this gift with outside perversions. These are not pure, nor are they gifts from God. They often reduce sex to an instinct, rather than a union of souls through intimacy. Sex for the sake of sex is not an embrace of the gifts or grace bestowed on a couple in marriage. Love that respects sexuality allowing it to blossom and grow through all stages of life is powerful stuff that accommodates all situations and circumstances through the gifts of grace bestowed by God.

Teresa
M. J. Joachim on Catholic Catechism and More

 

[Agrippa]

And one more questions – what are RonConte’s credentials which would make him a reliable “Catholic Theologian”? Or not?

We do not want to turn this thread into a thread about Ronald L. Conte, Jr., but since you asked, just check out his website and discussion board. He predicted the Warning and Miracle in 2009. He predicted Hillary Clinton would win the 2008 election and be President at the time, and she would change her position on abortion. As often occurs with prognosticators, his predictions did not occur, so he simply pushed the dates forward.

He then predicted the Warning and Miracle in 2010. The dates passed, so he pushed the predictions forward another year, to 2011. What do you think will happen in 2011?

His eschatology has been thoroughly discredited by his own writings. His moral theology is backed by an undergraduate degree from Boston College. None of his writings have an imprimatur, nor a Nihil Obstat. It is unclear if his own Bishop knows, or cares, about him.

He also thinks future popes may silence him because he knows the future.

 

[mommamaree]

We do not want to turn this thread into a thread about Ronald L. Conte, Jr., but since you asked, just check out his website and discussion board. He predicted the Warning and Miracle in 2009. He predicted Hillary Clinton would win the 2008 election and be President at the time, and she would change her position on abortion. As often occurs with prognosticators, his predictions did not occur, so he simply pushed the dates forward.

He then predicted the Warning and Miracle in 2010. The dates passed, so he pushed the predictions forward another year, to 2011. What do you think will happen in 2011?

His eschatology has been thoroughly discredited by his own writings. His moral theology is backed by an undergraduate degree from Boston College. None of his writings have an imprimatur, nor a Nihil Obstat. It is unclear if his own Bishop knows, or cares, about him.

He also thinks future popes may silence him because he knows the future.

This gave me the creeps.

 

[valient_Lucy]

The thought of anyone believing that God commands us to commit dirty acts bothers me because it is incorrect. No more. no less.

It may be incorrect, but still, if someone told me that they thought sex was distasteful, or dirty, I would accept it. You know, it did bother me once on another website, when a poster stated that sex was undignified, even within marriage. Not wrong, just undignified. But, I realized that that is not a theological statement, just a statement of personal taste. If someone is grossed out by the idea of sex, even sex within marriage, I see no reason to take offense. (I plan on teaching K-3rd grade, so I’d have to take offense quite often.) As I said before, I have vegetarian friends who are grossed out whenever I eat steak, but it doesn’t bother me. And it hasn’t stopped me from eating steak either.

That is a different matter entirly from what I was addressing, or at least intending to address. Any Catholic who has comitted any sort of sexual sin likely resents their sex drive, or at least the disordered portion of it, for a time. I take no issue with that. Then again, resenting a drive which is sometimes seemingly imposible for you to control is not the same as thinking sex is dirty. Sex is not dirty, impure thoughts aboiut sex are dirty.

At some point, the two ideas 1 People’s individual feelings and opinions about sex should be respected, not belittled and 2 My own personal struggles in this area, started to blend together. Not sure exactly when, or how that happened. I certainly fall into that category. While I am still a virgin, (can’t believe I’m saying that) I’m only now starting to realize how my sins from my teenage years still affect me. Not all the time, but some of the time. Like they have the past few weeks.

I don’t think sex is dirty, but sometimes, when your only experiences with it are sinful, it starts to feel dirty. And as I stated in my earlier posts, hearing married couples tell you that sex is good is only counterproductive, for the reasons I stated above.

It sounds rather personal and I don’t need to read it unless you’d like my feedback on it, in which case I’d be happy to.

You can read it and comment on it. Here’s the link.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=313755&highlight=A+Single+Woman%27s+Rant

I might have to bump it anyway, the way I’ve been feeling the last few weeks. (If nothing else I think CountrySinger will appreciate it.)

Plus, I’d rather not derail this thread.

From what I get so far here, it isn’t about thinking that sex is dirty (when it clearly isn’t) but more about an out-of-control drive with no licit outlets and the struggles that come with it I presume? I so know how that goes.

Thanks for understanding. It’s very frustrating, and exhausting, as others on this forum will attest, especially now that I’m older (26) and I’m watching my friends marry and have children.

No, Thank you. I like your moxie

Thanks. I do what I can.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’ve likely read most of the Church Fathers’ views on sex, and much of it has to be taken with a grain of salt and in the context of the understanding of the time as I’m sure you well know.

True, everything has to be taken in the context of the time, the whole of their writings, and even in their personal lives, such as St. Augustine of Hippo.

Even so, and even though I’ve been only rarely exposed to their writings, it can be yet another source of frustration, albeit a very minor one, compared to everything else.

 

[HNA444]

Oh, there are at least three or four going on in this thread. Bare minimum.

Thank you. Unfortuantely, some of the earliest posters on this thread did try to make her feel bad for thinking this way. That was what upset me. If a person’s gut reaction to sexual activity of any kind is “that’s dirty,” that reaction should be respected. If we try to change people’s minds on that, especially young girls, we’re teaching girls not to trust their instincts. This places them in a far more vulnerable position when they are being pressured by a boyfriend. Instincts can’t tell you what’s right, but they can actually be pretty good at telling you if something is wrong. If a girl, especially a young one, finds sexual activity “dirty,” we should be encouraging her to follow her instincts, not trying to undermind them!

Thank you so much for understanding and explaining!!! I appreciate that.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Thank you so much for understanding and explaining!!! I appreciate that.

You’re welcome. HNA444, if anyone, whether it’s your parents, your friends, your boyfriend, your husband, or the people on this forum, encourages you to do something that you think is wrong, or don’t want to do, don’t give in. They may belittle you and call you a prude or immature, but don’t listen to them. As someone on another website said, “You’re not a prude, he is a jerk.” (Or they are jerks.) Either way, there’s nothing wrong with you, there’s something wrong with them.

Listen to that little voice inside of you that says “No way!” Whatever you do in your life, do not silence that voice.

 

[reaganjn]

okay since we are on this topic…and i am a new catholic by the way

what if due to medical reasons the woman had a hysterectomy and the woman finished the man off. im asking a serious question because i seriously dont know the answer to this question and i would really love to know.

if i offend anyone please accept my apology in advance.

thank you

 

[ThomasToo]

okay since we are on this topic…and i am a new catholic by the way

what if due to medical reasons the woman had a hysterectomy and the woman finished the man off. im asking a serious question because i seriously dont know the answer to this question and i would really love to know.

if i offend anyone please accept my apology in advance.

thank you

What do you mean ‘finished the man off’? I’m not asking for graphic descriptions but a bit more context would probably be helpful and talk about sex is not, as such, dirty. It is my understanding that Catholic Moral Theology teaches that consensual vaginal intercourse between spouses without means of artificial birth control (e.g. condoms, pills or procedures such as vasectomies or tubal ligation done for non-health reasons) is licit. Even if a woman is post-menopausal or has had a hysterectomy the sex–as described above–is still licit.

There are more complex cases such as a couple who were sterilized (tubal ligation, vasectomy or both) before joining the Church but in the case you presented it doesn’t seem to be any sort of major issue.

I do not have an imprematur nor a nihil obstat so someone please correct me if I’m wrong .

 

[StJudePray4Me]

okay since we are on this topic…and i am a new catholic by the way

what if due to medical reasons the woman had a hysterectomy and the woman finished the man off. im asking a serious question because i seriously dont know the answer to this question and i would really love to know.

if i offend anyone please accept my apology in advance.

thank you

Do you mean: Is it OK to bring the man to climax outside of the vagina (as in oral sex), if the woman has had a hysterectomy and therefore here is NO chance of pregnancy?

If that’s the question, I think the answer is “no.” I think you are still supposed to finish the act inside the woman.

 

[reaganjn]

okay since i didnt know is that considered a venial sin or a mortal sin…either way im still going to confession to confess this…and i spoke to my hubby…he is not catholic but he agreed that he will stop having me do this. he is very supportive in whatever i need to do…

 

[reaganjn]

What do you mean ‘finished the man off’? I’m not asking for graphic descriptions but a bit more context would probably be helpful and talk about sex is not, as such, dirty. It is my understanding that Catholic Moral Theology teaches that consensual vaginal intercourse between spouses without means of artificial birth control (e.g. condoms, pills or procedures such as vasectomies or tubal ligation done for non-health reasons) is licit. Even if a woman is post-menopausal or has had a hysterectomy the sex–as described above–is still licit.

There are more complex cases such as a couple who were sterilized (tubal ligation, vasectomy or both) before joining the Church but in the case you presented it doesn’t seem to be any sort of major issue.

I do not have an imprematur nor a nihil obstat so someone please correct me if I’m wrong .

my priests know that i have had a hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis…i mean SEVERE actually it got sooo bad that it attached itself to my pelvic bone and i still have it so i am not allowed to have any type of hormones that my uterus and fallopian tubes and eggs produced. basically if my body doesnt produce the hormone naturally then i cannot have it.