Marriage and us

[angiebeth]

My fiance and I want to get married in the catholic church- Both of us were previously married. My former marriage will be easy to nullify. His, on the other hand, I’m not so sure. It has me quite concerned. He is a baptized Catholic and his former wife was Lutheran. They were married in a lutheran church with a lutheran ceremony and lutheran clergy. They had no special dispensation from the catholic church- nor was the marriage blessed, or…I forget the word…but suffice it to say no special rites happened (via Catholic church) before or after. Is his former marriage going to have to go through the full annulment/nullification process or was this a flaw in form not subject to a tribunal or anything else? Some thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Especially from Catholic clergy if possible. We want to get married in the catholic church, and we’d like to do so as soon as possible, given that his grandfather is ill and we don’t know how long he has…we’d really like him to be able to attend and be a part of our ceremony. Sorry so long winded, but as I said, I’m really worried about this. Thank you in advance.

 

[Trishie]

Angiebeth, I feel for you . But I rejoice that you both stand this real chance of successful applications and a happy furture together.

Your fiance still has to go through the annulment process even though it’s clearly not a valid marriage.

In order to obtain a declaration of nullity, your fiance must approach a Catholic diocesan tribunal. Most applications for nullity that are heard by the tribunal are granted because one or both of the parties are judged to have given invalid consent. Your fiance gave invalid consent in his first marriage

I do hope you can manage to achieve this quickly. Have you celebrated a wonderful engagement occasion so that your grandfather can enjoy this with you. If your grandfather is a good Catholic he will want you to do things properly. If you let him share in the achievement of getting the process under way by having a special family dinner that you make a lot of, so that this in itself becomes a special event.

Warm regards, Trishie

 

[puzzleannie]

the only way to get a good answer that is relevant to your particular situation is to visit the pastor of your Catholic parish. That is because the questions he needs to ask are too many and varied to discuss here. I can offer a surmise on the face of what you have said, but in my experience what couples reveal in the initial meeting, and what comes out as the matter is investigated more thoroughly, seldom agree. On the face of it, your fiance’s first marriage is invalid due to defect of form, since he was Catholic and did not follow Catholic canon law, and is resolved by a simple paperwork process, not a full annulment investigation. Since you provide no facts about your own circumstance I offer no opinion.

In my experience these situations are generally much much easier to resolve than the parties anticipate, but there is always the exception. Please see your priest. but be forewarned it takes as long as it takes and the timing depends on many things, most of them under your control–obtaining paperwork, attending the meetings on time, supplying witnesses–but many of them beyond your control.

 

[angiebeth]

In my case I married (unknown to me) a practicing drug addict, who (also unknown to me) had a vasectomy and was therefore incapable of having children. We were married in a local park by a justice of the peace. I was not at that time Catholic- Christian, but not Catholic. I am working on becoming Catholic at this time. I spoke to a priest at that time who informed me that my former marriage would be a matter of paperwork. (as I wasn’t contemplating remarriage at that time) I’m not sure what facts you’re looking for, but I’m more than happy to provide if I have them. In any case, I appreciate the warm wishes and advice I’ve gotten already.

 

[1ke]

My fiance and I want to get married in the catholic church- Both of us were previously married. My former marriage will be easy to nullify. His, on the other hand, I’m not so sure. It has me quite concerned. He is a baptized Catholic and his former wife was Lutheran. They were married in a lutheran church with a lutheran ceremony and lutheran clergy. They had no special dispensation from the catholic church- nor was the marriage blessed, or…I forget the word…but suffice it to say no special rites happened (via Catholic church) before or after. Is his former marriage going to have to go through the full annulment/nullification process or was this a flaw in form not subject to a tribunal or anything else? Some thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Especially from Catholic clergy if possible. We want to get married in the catholic church, and we’d like to do so as soon as possible, given that his grandfather is ill and we don’t know how long he has…we’d really like him to be able to attend and be a part of our ceremony. Sorry so long winded, but as I said, I’m really worried about this. Thank you in advance.

You need to make an appointment and discuss this with a priest. After you lay out all the facts of both prior marriages he will guide you. No one here can give you a definitive answer on whether or not either of you will receive a decree of nullity or how long it will take. Based on what you have written here, yes he has a lack of form.

Also, keep in mind that in addition to petitioning for a decree of nullity, you will need to participate in the marriage preparation process in your parish. Typically this is after you are free to marry, not before-- but it varies by diocese so again talk to the priest.

The marriage preparation process includes premarital counseling, formation on the Sacrament of Marriage, and a premarital investigation/paperwork. This is typically a 6-12 month process depending on the diocese, so don’t get your hopes up for a “quick” marriage. The Catholic Church is very serious about the Sacrament and therefore requires those approaching the Church for marriage to prepare for it properly.

You need to go talk to a priest.

 

[1ke]

In my case I married (unknown to me) a practicing drug addict, who (also unknown to me) had a vasectomy and was therefore incapable of having children. We were married in a local park by a justice of the peace. I was not at that time Catholic- Christian, but not Catholic. I am working on becoming Catholic at this time. I spoke to a priest at that time who informed me that my former marriage would be a matter of paperwork. (as I wasn’t contemplating remarriage at that time) I’m not sure what facts you’re looking for, but I’m more than happy to provide if I have them. In any case, I appreciate the warm wishes and advice I’ve gotten already.

Angie, we are not trying to discourage you from posting, but as Puzzleannie said, the facts needed in a nullity case are too numerous to lay out here. Your situation will need to be investigated by the tribunal.

You need to see your priest.

 

[angiebeth]

We were planning this fall, so in excess of 9 months. I may have misspoke when I said “quick”. I suppose “quick” in my mind is a year or under. (last marriage we met and were married in under 6 months) I have a healthy respect after the first mistake that ended in gross failure. I want to give the time it deserves, but not too much that I feel like we’re dawdling pointlessly. I knew a Catholic wedding in a church would be neither impromptu nor impulsive, which suits me perfectly fine.

 

[angiebeth]

We have an appointment on Tuesday with our parish priest (tomorrow) So I will continue to hope for the best. Thank you all for responding.

 

[puzzleannie]

) I’m not sure what facts you’re looking for, but I’m more than happy to provide if I have them. In any case, I appreciate the warm wishes and advice I’ve gotten already.

I am not looking for anything because it would be a waste of time. I am not competent to help you, but your local Catholic priest is. but it would be well worth your while to begin gathering relevant paperwork now: original marriage certificates and divorce decrees, recent baptismal certificates (issued within 6 months) for you and fiance, as well as information on the baptismal status of ex-spouses. Also info that pertains to circs at the time of the original marriages, including what you describe. Most important, and hardest to get, information on previous marriages of the ex-spouses, but well worth it because it will of course prove your case. Also contact info for potential witnesses who can attest to circs at time of original marriages.

This is a sample, not an exhaustive list, of what you will need, but don’t wait to set up the appointment with the priest. ah you have already done so, good girl. and by the way, welcome home, congratulations, best wishes, muey romantico, and prayers for your grandfather’s health.

 

[angiebeth]

That’s very helpful! Luckily, I have most of that already from our divorces. Now for the rest, at least with an idea of paperwork to be gathered, I can be better prepared when we go tomorrow.

 

[chevalier]

Angie, there is a lot that could be said about potential nullity grounds and we could probably tell you a good deal about those. But only the Tribunal can get all the facts of the case and make the decision. To tell you something really meaningful, we would need to know all facts and have a better knowledge of canon law than we have. It’s a bit like with predicting the outcome of a case in a civil court. We know the law, we get some facts from the party, but we can’t really make the binding evaluation. That is what, in your case, the Tribunal will do. I can only tell you there is a big chance, so you shouldn’t worry, but don’t set your hopes too high just in case.