Marriage as a Sacrament in non-Catholic churches

[fisherman_carl]

Hello, I was wondering if a marriage is still considered a sacramental marriage when say two baptized Christians get married in say a Lutheran church? And, can anyone marry someone else? I know anyone can baptize another person and that we consider other Christians to have valid baptisms and marriages. I was just wondering if the marriage is considered sacramental. Thanks.

 

[fisherman_carl]

I think I answered my own question - catholic.com/quickquestions/are-non-catholic-marriages-valid-in-the-eyes-of-the-catholic-church-what-if-a-catholi

But, the question still remains - can any person, man or woman, layperson, marry two baptized Christians and the marriage is still valid? What constitutes a valid marriage?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Catholics must be married according to the Catholic form.

Two non-Catholic baptized Christians marry validly and Sacramentally if the conditions for validity are met. They can marry before a judge, Protestant minister, or anyone else allowed by law. The officiant is not the key to validity of Marriage.

 

[Phemie]

I think I answered my own question - catholic.com/quickquestions/are-non-catholic-marriages-valid-in-the-eyes-of-the-catholic-church-what-if-a-catholi

But, the question still remains - can any person, man or woman, layperson, marry two baptized Christians and the marriage is still valid? What constitutes a valid marriage?

Yes, if they have no impediments (too close blood kinship, a previous marriage with a living “ex”), if their church accepts it (the Orthodox Church wouldn’t) and the marriage is legal.

Jo Blow down the street can’t witness the vows of two people and it be accepted as a valid marriage UNLESS he is licensed to perform marriages. (There is the rare situation where these 3 would be in the middle of the jungle with no hope of coming up with a ‘licensed’ person within a one-month period where the requirement to be licensed might not apply but those situations are few and far between.)

But it’s easy enough to be licensed. I know a man who became licensed just so he could be the presider at his daughter’s wedding. AFAIK, he had no interest in witnessing marriages on a regular basis, just that one.

A valid marriage is one where two people with no impediments vow in front of witnesses that they are freely giving themselves to each other, intend to be faithful, married for life and to accept children should God bless them with some.
For non-Catholics, baptized or not, that can be witnessed by a minister, a justice of the peace, a judge or the captain of a ship if they meet the ‘offshore’ requirements.

For a Catholic, this must be witnessed by a priest or deacon or, in rare instances, a lay person appointed by the Bishop with Rome’s permission. A Catholic marrying a non-Catholic might be able to get a dispensation from canonical form to marry outside the Church and have that marriage witnessed by a non-Catholic minister, judge, etc.

 

[Elizium23]

[edited] The only True Churches are the ones which retain all four Marks: one, holy, catholic and apostolic.

A member of the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox Churches is still bound, according to Orthodox and Catholic canon law, to marry according to the canonical form of his/her own Church, which always means a priest must be the minister.

But yes, considering all the rules for validity are met at the time of exchange of consent and a valid marriage is contracted, valid marriage between two baptized Christians is always a sacrament.

Marriage where one or both parties is unbaptized is natural and non-sacramental, but there is still plenty of leeway for validity here.

 

[glendab]

That is exactly what the term “valid” addresses, the Sacramental nature of the marriage in question and even though they may not think of it in that way, if they came to the Church and are two Baptised individuals and intended the till death do we part stuff at the time of their wedding, then yes, not only do the have a Sacrament, but it is valid even thought while they are say, Lutheran or non-denominational, etc, they’d probably argue with you over the actual Sacramental nature of their bond. I think it is one of those happy surprises converts experience when the come into the Church.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Fisherman Carl.

I think I answered my own question - catholic.com/quickquestions/are-non-catholic-marriages-valid-in-the-eyes-of-the-catholic-church-what-if-a-catholi

But, the question still remains - can any person, man or woman, layperson, marry two baptized Christians and the marriage is still valid? What constitutes a valid marriage?

ooops. I just read the second part of your question and guess what? The minister of the Sacrament isn’t the person marrying the couple, it is the couple themselves, so the second part of your question is no, a Lutheran minister cannot give a Sacrament of Matrimony to a Lutheran couple no matter what he or she believes. The Sacrament isn’t given to the couple by anyone person. Keep in mind the minister of the Sacrement is actually the couple themselves and when it is done inside the Church inside a Mass, the Priest or Deacon is only the Church’s witness. He doesn’t give them the Sacrament.

Glenda

 

[IrelandDavid]

Hi all,

I have a similar situation where I wish to marry a Protestant. I am a Roman Catholic and we both have a devotion to our given faiths. On a personal level, what is most important to me from a religious perspective is that my marriage is true and seen by the Roman Catholic Church as valid, as a sacrament and I would be considered to not just be married in law but in the eyes of God and my beliefs.

It is likely that if married, my other half would want to be married in her own parish, i.e. In a Protestant church. I have read online about dispensations but am struggling to find what I’d consider up to date posts on websites that I would consider trustworthy. What I mean by this is that I’d prefer the view of a Catholic priest rather than Wikipedia.

I am also aware of certain promises to be made to obtain a dispensation, particularly with regards to children. I am 100% confident that my faith will remain, and can promise in my heart that I will try to ensure my children would be brought up as Catholic. However, it would be naive of me to think that my then wife would not put up a similar argument to have her children raised in her faith.

My question regarding this would be what would be considered making every effort to have your children raised in the Catholic faith? I would obviously discuss this with my then wife and as we are both Christian, our children would be baptised. however, at what point does making every effort become too much. I assume nobody’s religion wants arguments between married people. I want to be respectful of my faith and also of hers and I would expect the same from her,

This has come as a conversation of late and I feel I need more information on these matters. I also plan to speak to my parish priest for guidance.

I am so sorry if this has been covered in other, recent posts. I have just joined the site and am new to how it works.

I appreciate any advise I might receive, particularly from those who have experience in such matters.

God bless
David.

 

[1ke]

What I mean by this is that I’d prefer the view of a Catholic priest rather than Wikipedia.

I suggest making an appointment with your pastor. No matter where you get married, you will have to start with Catholic premarital preparation and investigation of freedom to marry. Plus you will need the permission for mixed marriage and dispensation from form.

Yes, you can receive a dispensation from form to marry in her church if all of your obligations as a Catholic are met.

My question regarding this would be what would be considered making every effort to have your children raised in the Catholic faith? I would obviously discuss this with my then wife and as we are both Christian, our children would be baptised. however, at what point does making every effort become too much. I assume nobody’s religion wants arguments between married people. I want to be respectful of my faith and also of hers and I would expect the same from her,

You should discuss and settle the matter BEFORE you agree to marry.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If a validly baptized man and a validly baptized woman are married constitutes a sacrament? Then why is a divorce granted? when there is no divorce in a sacramental marriage?

A sacramental marriage is sacred before God and no man can put asunder what God has joined together.

Would Christ divorce His bride the Church?

A valid sacramental marriage constitutes the man and woman consenting before God with a witness to be one in life until death, with both man and woman possessing the freedom and disposition to vow a life together, when divorce is never an option.

Yet divorce exist as common place between two non-Catholic married baptized man and woman.

I believe a case by case circumstance calls for discernment whether or not the marriage is a valid sacrament especially when divorce is considered an option for failing marriages.

Marriage as a Sacrament in non-Catholic church’s would be considered illicit, just from the lack of understanding by the non-Catholic couple of what a sacramental marriage is in the eyes of God.

If divorce is never an option, then the marriage can be licit sacramentally.

 

[Phemie]

If a validly baptized man and a validly baptized woman are married constitutes a sacrament? Then why is a divorce granted? when there is no divorce in a sacramental marriage?

A sacramental marriage is sacred before God and no man can put asunder what God has joined together.

Would Christ divorce His bride the Church?

A valid sacramental marriage constitutes the man and woman consenting before God with a witness to be one in life until death, with both man and woman possessing the freedom and disposition to vow a life together, when divorce is never an option.

Yet divorce exist as common place between two non-Catholic married baptized man and woman.

I believe a case by case circumstance calls for discernment whether or not the marriage is a valid sacrament especially when divorce is considered an option for failing marriages.

Marriage as a Sacrament in non-Catholic church’s would be considered illicit, just from the lack of understanding by the non-Catholic couple of what a sacramental marriage is in the eyes of God.

If divorce is never an option, then the marriage can be licit sacramentally.

Divorce is just as common between Catholics, sadly.

If the marriage is valid between two baptized people, it’s a sacrament. That is what the Church teaches. Since without proof to the contrary the marriage is presumed valid, it’s also presumed sacramental.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Divorce is just as common between Catholics, sadly.

If the marriage is valid between two baptized people, it’s a sacrament. That is what the Church teaches. Since without proof to the contrary the marriage is presumed valid, it’s also presumed sacramental.

Yes, but the two consenting adults who don’t know what a sacramental marriage is or rejects the marriage as being a sacrament because they don’t practice the sacramental economy of divine life, and if the marriage is done with a heretical view of the Trinity brings into question the validity of the sacrament.

A case by case must be discerned in order to call a non-Catholic marriage a valid sacrament. Not to exclude that the Church recognizes a natural marriage as being valid. But I am not sure if a natural marriage is viewed as sacramental?

To brush over all marriages by non-Catholics is a sacrament is not what the Church teaches.

Although Catholics may divorce, but in the eyes of the Church and God they remain married sacramentally unless proven that the sacrament did not take place, thus an annulment results. The annulment applies to non-Catholic Christian marriages. But most non-Catholics don’t know what an annulment is, thus they pursue a legal divorce.

 

[Phemie]

Yes, but the two consenting adults who don’t know what a sacramental marriage is or rejects the marriage as being a sacrament because they don’t practice the sacramental economy of divine life, and if the marriage is done with a heretical view of the Trinity brings into question the validity of the sacrament.

A case by case must be discerned in order to call a non-Catholic marriage a valid sacrament. Not to exclude that the Church recognizes a natural marriage a being valid. But I am not sure if a natural marriage is viewed as sacramental?

To brush over all marriages by non-Catholics is a sacrament is not what the Church teaches.

The Church teaches that a marriage between two baptized people can’t be anything but sacramental.

A natural marriage cannot be sacramental since at least one of the parties is not baptized.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The Church teaches that a marriage between two baptized people can’t be anything but sacramental.

A natural marriage cannot be sacramental since at least one of the parties is not baptized.

Yet the church recognizes the natural marriage as a marriage took place.

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic woman marry another validly baptized non-Catholic woman in a sacramental marriage? Does the Church consider this example a sacrament?

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic man marry another validly baptized non-Catholic man in a sacramental marriage? Does the Church consider this example a valid sacramental marriage according to your standards?

 

[Phemie]

Yet the church recognizes the natural marriage as a marriage took place.

Yes, a natural marriage is a valid marriage. Don’t confuse “valid” with “sacramental.” The two are not the same. A natural marriage is a valid “non-sacramental” marriage.

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic woman marry another validly baptized non-Catholic woman in a sacramental marriage? Does the Church consider this example a sacrament?

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic man marry another validly baptized non-Catholic man in a sacramental marriage? Does the Church consider this example a valid sacramental marriage according to your standards?

No. Marriage can only exist between a man and a woman.
What you describe is not marriage, sacramental or otherwise.

 

[1ke]

Yes, but the two consenting adults who don’t know what a sacramental marriage is or rejects the marriage as being a sacrament because they don’t practice the sacramental economy of divine life, and if the marriage is done with a heretical view of the Trinity brings into question the validity of the sacrament.

A case by case must be discerned in order to call a non-Catholic marriage a valid sacrament.

The Church disagrees with you. The Church has no such requirement.

Not to exclude that the Church recognizes a natural marriage as being valid. But I am not sure if a natural marriage is viewed as sacramental?

A natural marriage is a valid marriage between two unbaptized people, or one baptized and one unbaptized. Marriage between the baptized is a sacrament by its very nature.

To brush over all marriages by non-Catholics is a sacrament is not what the Church teaches.

It is absolutely what the Church teaches when speaking of two baptized people (which we are in this thread). The Church teaching regarding natural marriage applies to the unbaptized.

 

[1ke]

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic woman marry another validly baptized non-Catholic woman in a sacramental marriage?

How does a validly baptized non-Catholic man marry another validly baptized non-Catholic man in a sacramental marriage?

Does the Church consider this example a valid sacramental marriage according to your standards?

What are you talking about? No one here is talking about so-called same sex marriage. Please stay on topic.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Phemie;12652201]Yes, a natural marriage is a valid marriage. Don’t confuse “valid” with “sacramental.” The two are not the same. A natural marriage is a valid “non-sacramental” marriage.

Yes, thank you; One cannot confuse a natural marriage with a sacramental marriage. This sums up my point.

No. Marriage can only exist between a man and a woman.
What you describe is not marriage, sacramental or otherwise.

Agreed, that is why I stated each marriage has to be discerned in a case by case. You implied that any non-Catholic valid baptized couple who is married enters a sacrament.

I disagreed, because a sacramental marriage does not take place between two validly baptized non-Catholic same sex marriage. This non-Catholic marriage is not a sacramental marriage.

The OP criteria specified “non-Catholic churches” marriages. There exist today validly baptized same sex marriages taken place today in non-Catholic church’s.

We cannot brush all non-Catholic marriages as sacramental as posters have implied here.

I hope to make a clarification, that each non-Catholic marriage has to be discerned by the Church what constitutes a natural marriage and what constitutes a sacramental marriage.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

1ke;12652256]The Church disagrees with you. The Church has no such requirement

.
The Church agrees with my point. A natural marriage is not to be confused with a sacramental marriage. Both are considered a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church.

It is absolutely what the Church teaches when speaking of two baptized people (which we are in this thread). The Church teaching regarding natural marriage applies to the unbaptized.

The Op addresses “non-Catholic Churches”. There are non-Catholic church’s who marry validly baptized same sex couples. In this same sex case marriage example between two non-Catholic validly baptized Christians is never a sacrament.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

What are you talking about? No one here is talking about so-called same sex marriage. Please stay on topic.

The topic is "Marriage as a Sacrament in non-Catholic churches.

Validly baptized same sex marriages are not excluded from non-Catholic churches.