Marriage at reception

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Fidelia

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Hi, this is out of curiosity/concern. My boyfriend’s sister and her fiance are getting ‘married’ in October. Both (non-practicing but Baptised Catholics) By a priest at the reception hall, the priest supposedly having gotten some kind of permission to do this, as far as my boyfriend tells me. Is this allowed? Is a dispensation for this even allowed? I asked my priest who I talk to a lot here at my college (a Jesuit) and he says it is impossible, and is very doubtful about the supposed permission, saying that even a dispensation for it is unlikely. Anyone have resources/information/experience?
 
Hi, this is out of curiosity/concern. My boyfriend’s sister and her fiance are getting ‘married’ in October. Both (non-practicing but Baptised Catholics) By a priest at the reception hall, the priest supposedly having gotten some kind of permission to do this, as far as my boyfriend tells me. Is this allowed? Is a dispensation for this even allowed? I asked my priest who I talk to a lot here at my college (a Jesuit) and he says it is impossible, and is very doubtful about the supposed permission, saying that even a dispensation for it is unlikely. Anyone have resources/information/experience?
No, Canon Law is quite clear that marriage between two Catholics takes place in a the home parish of the bride. With permission of the priest the marriage can take plance in a different Church (such as that of the groom, childhood parish, etc) or an oratory (meaning a non-parish type church like a shrine, cathedral, etc).

To dispense from the Catholic form of marriage requires permission from the Bishop. I highly doubt that the Bishop has given such permission as it is typically only given when a Catholic is marrying a non-baptized or non-Catholic person and there is a serious reason to marry in the other person’s place of worship.

You can find this in Canon Law.
 
No, Canon Law is quite clear that marriage between two Catholics takes place in a the home parish of the bride.
This is mistaken:
Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in the parish in which either of the contracting parties has a domicile or a quasi-domicile or a month’s residence or, if there is question of vagi, in the parish in which they are actually residing. With the permission of the proper Ordinary or the proper parish priest, marriages may be celebrated elsewhere.
(NB: I believe “permission of … the proper parish priest” refers to a priest permitting a marriage in his parish between two non-parishoners)
To dispense from the Catholic form of marriage requires permission from the Bishop. I highly doubt that the Bishop has given such permission as it is typically only given when a Catholic is marrying a non-baptized or non-Catholic person and there is a serious reason to marry in the other person’s place of worship.
Can. 1118 §1 A marriage between catholics, or between a catholic party and a baptised non-catholic, is to be celebrated in the parish church. By permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest, it may be celebrated in another church or oratory.
§2 The local Ordinary can allow a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.
§3 A marriage between a catholic party and an unbaptised party may be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place.
To hear stories in this forum of the spectrum of orthodox to heterodox bishops in this country (I myself have personal experience with very few), I would not be surprised to learn that this permission is granted less or more liberally, accordingly.

tee
 
Hi, this is out of curiosity/concern. My boyfriend’s sister and her fiance are getting ‘married’ in October. Both (non-practicing but Baptised Catholics) By a priest at the reception hall, the priest supposedly having gotten some kind of permission to do this, as far as my boyfriend tells me. Is this allowed? Is a dispensation for this even allowed? I asked my priest who I talk to a lot here at my college (a Jesuit) and he says it is impossible, and is very doubtful about the supposed permission, saying that even a dispensation for it is unlikely. Anyone have resources/information/experience?
A dispensation would be required and it’s highly unlikely it would be granted.
 
I have tooooooo much to say on this matter. I shall hold back my tongue, and like Br. Rich I would agree that this dispensation would be almost impossible to get. If the Bishop gives it out once, then everyone else will expect him to give it out.
 
The dispensation may or may not be impossible to get; it depends on where (what diocese) and what circumstances. Canon 1115 certainly doesn’t make it impossible.

There could be a greater or lesser willingness to grant it based on the diocese and the facts given, to which none of us are privy. Saying it is near impossible is simply a personal impression.
 
My boyfriend would like me to go with him, and as much as I disagree with how they are exchanging their vows, i probably will go. I wouldn’t not be there with him, for him. Even if I do go just for him, and to be there with him, would it be wrong for me to go. I will pray that it will be valid, but how would I even know unless I ask to see the document, which would definitely be nosey. You wouldn’t say not to go, right? it is all the way on October, but I want to know what people here think.
 
Dear Fidelia,

You have some time to get some clarification on this matter. Based on the information you provided, it would seem that this marriage would not fit the requirements to be considered valid. However, one should not rush to judgment without full knowledge of the facts in any situation.

If the marriage is in fact outside of the parameters required to make it valid, you will need to make this decision through prayer and discernment. I have included a few items that I hope will help guide you.

“If man is admonished by his conscience-even if an erroneous conscience, but one whose voice appears to him as unquestionably true-he must always listen to it. What is not permissible is that he culpably indulge in error without trying to reach the truth.” Pope John Paul II

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

IV. Erroneous Judgment

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61
 
I’ve seen this type of thing several time now and it turned out to be a “Rent a Priest” or some other scismatic priest.
 
Should I ask my boyfriend if he knows who the priest is? At some point he had said it was the priest from their parish who had married their parents and baptised him and his sister, but that may have changed. I don’t know.
 
Should I ask my boyfriend if he knows who the priest is? At some point he had said it was the priest from their parish who had married their parents and baptised him and his sister, but that may have changed. I don’t know.
I think this is a wise decision. If it is indeed the Parish Priest and he has gotten the dispensation (for some unknown and unfathamable reason) then everything is on the up and up and you should have no problem going 😃 .

If not, then, well, it might be worth it for you to just decline as you won’t know and shouldn’t have to go to the lengths it might take to find out if it is okay.

These are indeed my humble opinion 😉

Brenda V.
 
I think this is a wise decision. If it is indeed the Parish Priest and he has gotten the dispensation (for some unknown and unfathamable reason) then everything is on the up and up and you should have no problem going 😃 .

If not, then, well, it might be worth it for you to just decline as you won’t know and shouldn’t have to go to the lengths it might take to find out if it is okay.

These are indeed my humble opinion 😉

Brenda V.
That does make sense, but do you really suggest not going? It would mean a lot to my boyfriend if I was with him when his sister gets married (if she even truly is) and it means a lot to me that he wants me with him. I would be going with him, as in, his date, not as having been specifically invited myself (as far as I know).

I would so like to see the actual dispensation document, for what really looks like a travesty of a wedding. I know it probably isn’t my business to actually ask to see it in order to decide to go or not. That seems a little unnecessary. But at the same time, shouldn’t people be open about having gotten a dispensation, so as not to cause scandal or something, by making it look like reception-vows are ok for Catholics? But they probably have no concern or even knowledge of avoiding scandal. they are already living together.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=139034
if you are interested in that.
 
That does make sense, but do you really suggest not going? It would mean a lot to my boyfriend if I was with him when his sister gets married (if she even truly is) and it means a lot to me that he wants me with him. I would be going with him, as in, his date, not as having been specifically invited myself (as far as I know).

I would so like to see the actual dispensation document, for what really looks like a travesty of a wedding.
:twocents:

I think you should determine that the officiant is a priest in good standing with the diocese, and if so you should *presume *he has obtained the proper dispensation.

Are you this scrupulous about other sacraments? Do you demand to see a priest’s *celebret *before confessing your sins? When you receive Communion, do you first ask “Father, were you intending to do what the Church intends at the consecration?”? :ehh:

:twocents:
tee
 
As far as I understood it, for a marriage to be valid in the Church (OTHER than being blessed) it had to be performed in the Church in front of the Tabernacle for the reasons that the vows are made before Christ in the consecrated host.
This is why Catholics don’t get married outside or at other “venues”.
 
:twocents:

I think you should determine that the officiant is a priest in good standing with the diocese, and if so you should *presume *he has obtained the proper dispensation.

Are you this scrupulous about other sacraments? Do you demand to see a priest’s *celebret *before confessing your sins? When you receive Communion, do you first ask “Father, were you intending to do what the Church intends at the consecration?”? :ehh:

:twocents:
tee
Tee,

You have good advise in your first paragraph.

As for our poor OP being scrupulous about Sacraments I think the concern here is the fact that a Sacrament is apparently occurring outside the norm. If I enter a Confessional I assume the Priest can indeed hear my confession and give me absolution in persona Christi, the same with when I attend Mass in a Parish Church, a Chapel or other “regular” place where a Mass may be celebrated.

OP, I am sorry, my advise or opinion (you choose how you wish to take it) about not attending if it is obvious no dispensation has taken place was my misunderstanding that you weren’t sure if you should go or not - my fault for not remembering your original post as most people when they ask about this kind of thing are wondering if they should go or not.

Brenda V.
 
  1. Why does a Catholic wedding have to take place in a church?
For Catholics, marriage is not just a social or family event, but a church event. For this reason, the Church prefers that marriages between Catholics, or between Catholics and other Christians, be celebrated in the parish church of one of the spouses. Only the local bishop can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.
A reception hall is not a suitable place for two Catholics if there are Catholic churches available.I’d really be curious to know if this dispensation was given by the Bishop and why.

usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml
 
I asked about this.
If the two Catholics getting married are not practicing Catholics and have opted for a Valid wedding as opposed to a Sacracmental wedding, the venue doesn’t matter. And if this is the case, and they want a Catholic priest to marry them, the priest is then operating as a sort of JP as opposed to a priest.
 
I asked about this.
If the two Catholics getting married are not practicing Catholics and have opted for a Valid wedding as opposed to a Sacracmental wedding, the venue doesn’t matter. And if this is the case, and they want a Catholic priest to marry them, the priest is then operating as a sort of JP as opposed to a priest.
Who did you ask about this? :hmmm:

Practicing or not: “Can. 1055 §2 Consequently, a valid marriage contract cannot exist between baptised persons without its being by that very fact a sacrament.”

tee
 
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