Marriage/baptism

[Annabelle_Marie]

they got married 4 hours away from home/their church
it was all about convenience for them, reception and ceremony in the same place
but now there worried about their future children

Why don’t they get their marriage convalidated-ie blessed? Then it would solve more then just getting their future children baptized…

 

[Joe_5859]

They should talk to their priest.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

If the marriage is not registered in a parish office, then there would be no trace of it.

So, no one would know if they were really married in the Church or not … if they are concerned about leaving some record of it so that they would be on record.

I guess there is a marriage certificate … but would it indicate they were married by a priest in a religious service?

The priest could function as a civil “magistrate” or whatever the term is and submit the paperwork for a civil marriage.

 

[Joe_5859]

They need to talk to their priest as soon as possible.

Different parishes may have different rules about the time lapse between initial conversation and Baptism. Some parishes only do Baptisms on certain days. Some have classes the parents must attend. It all depends.

Ideally, the couple would recognize that they need to get their marriage convalidated and start practicing their faith regularly so that they can fulfill their baptismal obligation to form their children in the Catholic faith.

The priest is the best person to help them with all of this.

 

[Joe_5859]

What should they say to the priest? and how far in advance should they meet with a priest before the baptism, considering they could be told no?!

They simply need to be honest and upfront with the priest in response to any of his questions (the priest will know what questions to ask). They should not attempt to withhold information or “say all the right things” just so they can get what they want. That would be deceptive.

 

[julianne73]

Joe5859, I don’t really think they have a priest, like i said they are not completely non-practicing, but pretty close…Or do you mean just a priest at their church?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Joe5859, I don’t really think they have a priest, like i said they are not completely non-practicing, but pretty close…Or do you mean just a priest at their church?

They should speak to a priest at the closet parish.

 

[Joe_5859]

Joe5859, I don’t really think they have a priest, like i said they are not completely non-practicing, but pretty close…Or do you mean just a priest at their church?

Yes, they should talk to whatever priest they are hoping to have baptize their child (probably the pastor at their nearest Catholic Church / the Church they attend even if only occasionally). He will answer all their questions.

 

[joanofarc2008]

It’s because of the Church teaching that says children need to be Baptised because then if they die without being Baptised the child will go to ‘limbo’. I can understand why someone would then want to have their kids Baptised, just in case. But not take the other rules of the Church seriously. We’re talking ‘in case they die’. Any parent would take extra steps to ensure their child’s welfare, even spiritual, ‘in case they die’, without worrying about following the rest of the rules.

This is not Church teaching.

This is Church teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[Lancer]

First, I commend you for seeking to help in this situation.

Second, Pastor- Priests sometimes do a lot of different things in this type of situation…always with good intentions but objectively, they really don’t help solve the real problem. Here is what they are supposed to do…by Canon Law re: baptism of infants and parents who do not practice the faith:

Code of Canon Law
BOOK IVFUNCTION OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 834 - 848)
PART I. THE SACRAMENTS
TITLE I. BAPTISM (Cann. 849 - 878)
CHAPTER III. THOSE TO BE BAPTIZED

Can. 868

§1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM

Lastly, my recommendation is for them to see/meet with an orthodox pastor who in explaining this Canon Law requirement…might even more importantly convince the parents to get their “marriage” —* con-validated* — con-validation of a marriage means having their union officially recognized by the Church. Also, he might be able to (with the Holy Spirit’s gifts of his ordination graces) get the parents to see the critical importance of consistently practicing their Catholic faith – an engaged faith – in the Church…for their own well being and their souls…as well as their marriage and family…especially their unbaptized children.
Pax Christi

**Bringing Your Marriage Into the Church **
by Msgr. Joseph M. Champlin

There are many people attending Catholic parishes or in Catholic families whose
marriage is somehow not fully recognized by the Church. Catholic Church law ordinarily
requires baptized Roman Catholics to marry before a priest or deacon. Unless they
requested and received a “dispensation from canonical form,” Catholics who exchange
marriage vows in the presence of only ministers from other religious traditions or
authorized civic officials are not considered validly married in the eyes of the Catholic
Church.

Later, those couples may seek to have their union officially recognized by the Church. In
technical Church terms, this is known as** convalidation of a marriage**.
In 1981, Pope John Paul II issued an apostolic exhortation called On the Family.
Among other items in this groundbreaking document, he outlined practical suggestions for pastors and pastoral leaders when dealing with couples not married “in the Church.”
The **pope cautioned that each situation should be examined case by case. He instructed
pastors and pastoral leaders to make “tactful and respectful contact with the couples
concerned and enlighten them patiently, correct them charitably and show them the
witness of Christian family life in such a way as to smooth the path for them to regularize their situation.” **

archden.org/marriage/BringingYourMarriageIntotheChurch.pdf

 

[Castello]

they got married 4 hours away from home/their church
it was all about convenience for them, reception and ceremony in the same place
but now there worried about their future children

And worry about their souls. They are living in a state of sin

They simply need to go to their Pastor, make good confessions, live as brother and sister until they can be married in the Church.

 

[thistle]

If 2 non-practicing Catholics get married by a priest but outside of their church, will they be able to have their children baptized at that church?

If the priest is not certain the child will be brought up as a Catholic then it is likely baptism will not be permitted. See the part I highlighted in the canon law.

Can. 867 §1 Parents are obliged to see that their infants are baptised within the first few weeks. As soon as possible after the birth, indeed even before it, they are to approach the parish priest to ask for the sacrament for their child, and to be themselves duly prepared for it.

§2 If the infant is in danger of death, it is to be baptised without any delay.

Can. 868 §1 For an infant to be baptised lawfully it is required:

1° that the parents, or at least one of them, or the person who lawfully holds their place, give their consent;

2° that there be a well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the catholic religion. If such hope is truly lacking, the baptism is, in accordance with the provisions of particular law, to be deferred and the parents advised of the reason for this.

 

[Rence]

This is not Church teaching.

This is Church teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

I know it’s not Joan, thanks But that’s what old timers used to say. Now the CCC just says they don’t know what will happen. Therefore it is ‘safer’ to get your child Baptised than not.

 

[Filii_Dei]

I am aware of non-Catholics who had their children baptised as Catholics (such as RCIA candidates with infants), so whether they are practising Catholics or not seems to be irrelevant.

 

[Phemie]

I am aware of non-Catholics who had their children baptised as Catholics (such as RCIA candidates with infants), so whether they are practising Catholics or not seems to be irrelevant.

If the parents are in RCIA then the priest has a reasonable hope that the child will be raised Catholic. That’s the requirement. It’s also the only thing that has stopped me from baptizing my grandson in the bathtub and then reporting it to the Church, since my daughter refuses to have him baptized: I’d be imposing on him things that he’ll never know about since I live nowhere near and he’ll only ever see the inside of a church at Christmas.

 

[Filii_Dei]

If the parents are in RCIA then the priest has a reasonable hope that the child will be raised Catholic. That’s the requirement. It’s also the only thing that has stopped me from baptizing my grandson in the bathtub and then reporting it to the Church, since my daughter refuses to have him baptized: I’d be imposing on him things that he’ll never know about since I live nowhere near and he’ll only ever see the inside of a church at Christmas.

Apart from the fact that at least one of the parents must consent? Or that you are forbidden from baptising except in extremis?

Well, there is one person on this forum whose mother was Lutheran and yet had him/her baptised as a Catholic (don’t ask me how or why she did it), and he/she eventually grew up to become a practising Catholic now, so it can be be a little fuzzy.

 

[1ke]

Julie,

They should talk to their priest. They need to have their marriage convalidated and they need to go to Confession.

If they show through their actions that the intend to live as Catholics and raise their children in the Catholic Church they should be able to have their children baptized. Convalidating their marriage is the first step in showing they plan to live Catholic lives.

 

[Phemie]

Apart from the fact that at least one of the parents must consent? Or that you are forbidden from baptising except in extremis?

It would still be a valid, though illicit, baptism, with all the graces and effects. And I’d sleep better.

 

[chepner3]

Of course their children can be baptized. Let’s say they were married in California then move to New York and start having children. Would they be required to travel back to California everytime they want a child baptized? Of course not! The place of your marriage has nothing to do with where your children are baptized.

You do, however, have to prove that at least one parent is a baptized Catholic (apparently there are exceptions for RCIA candidates). If I remember correctly, I also had to prove where I received my first holy communion, too. I don’t remember if they asked if I was confirmed, but I was and I remember where (all three different churches, BTW.) I didn’t have to come up with actual documentation, though, just names and approximate dates. My husband is not Catholic but our marriage has been blessed by a priest and, frankly, the priest who did our baptism didn’t care about those details. All he cared about was that my husband supported the decision to raise our child in the Catholic faith.

My daughter’s Godfather is a baptized Catholic but I’m not sure he had to do anything to “prove it”.

We went to a baptism preparation class led by a deacon. A private meeting with the priest was completely unnecessary.

 

[thistle]

I wondered where my post was until I realised the OP has started two threads on this subject.
Anyway my comment from the other thread:

If the priest is not certain the child will be brought up as a Catholic then it is likely baptism will not be permitted. See the part I highlighted in the canon law.

Can. 867 §1 Parents are obliged to see that their infants are baptised within the first few weeks. As soon as possible after the birth, indeed even before it, they are to approach the parish priest to ask for the sacrament for their child, and to be themselves duly prepared for it.

§2 If the infant is in danger of death, it is to be baptised without any delay.

Can. 868 §1 For an infant to be baptised lawfully it is required:

1° that the parents, or at least one of them, or the person who lawfully holds their place, give their consent;

2° that there be a well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the catholic religion. If such hope is truly lacking, the baptism is, in accordance with the provisions of particular law, to be deferred and the parents advised of the reason for this.