Marriage between Baptist and Coptic Orthodox, possible?

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I am Baptist and my boyfriend of 3 years is Coptic Orthodox. WE have reached a standpoint in our relationship as we both wish to get married however he has told me we can not do so unless I am to convert to coptic orthodox. I want nothing more than to be with him, but I feel as if, if I were to convert from Baptist to Coptic, would this not be wrong in my church? I feel as if it is a sin to leave my church for his. However I also believe that if we are to marry, it is sworn under the same God…or does that not mean anything? Also, I was told by one person that Eastern Coptic Orthodox members are allowed to marry non EO members if they are of the Christian faith…which I am. Is that true? Basically, I am trying to see what our options are as I do not feel it is right for me to convert and I would never ask him to leave his church behind because I know how important his faith is to him. I will happily get married in his church but I cannot turn my back on mine. If anyone can provide any information it would be GREATLY appreciated as we do not know what to do and we do not want to feel forced to end our relationship over this. Thank you so much and god bless!
 
Hi. There has been some misinformation or confusion at some point in your search for answers. The Coptic Orthodox are not part of the Eastern Orthodox communion, and there is no such thing as “Eastern Coptic Orthodox”. This is confusing two separate Churches: The Coptic Orthodox Church is what is known as Oriental Orthodox, only in communion with other Oriental Orthodox churches such as the Ethiopian Orthodox “Tewahedo” and the Armenian Orthodox. This communion shares a non-Chalcedonian Christology that is different than the Christology of the Eastern Orthodox (Byzantines, Slavs, Romanians, Greeks). So the two are not in communion and the guidelines for marriage are different in each communion.

As far as I understand it, a Coptic Orthodox Christian cannot marry outside of his or her church without being excommunicated, so your boyfriend is right. You would need to convert to his Church in order to marry him. There is a Coptic Orthodox priest in the “Eastern Catholicism” section of this board by the name of Fr. Kyrillos who can give you more information on this topic. It has come up recently on that part of the forum, so you should go there and find those threads if you haven’t already.

Best of luck to you and your boyfriend.
 
hats off to dzheremi. that is some serious knowledge.

but i don’t understand part of your question you said, “I do not feel it is right for me to convert and I would never ask him to leave his church behind because I know how important his faith is to him. I will happily get married in his church but I cannot turn my back on mine.” my question is to do with the difference between faith and church. are you and he especially attached to the building where services are held, or the pastor/priest, or what? i’m not trying to being fatuous, or maybe i just don’t understand how awful it must feel to be excommunicated. but it just seems that there must be some way to work this all out. like, by moving to another city and finding a new church. or something less drastic, like taking turns;p good luck!
 
Sparksw10 said:
I am Baptist and my boyfriend of 3 years is Coptic Orthodox. WE have reached a standpoint in our relationship as we both wish to get married however he has told me we can not do so unless I am to convert to coptic orthodox. I want nothing more than to be with him, but I feel as if, if I were to convert from Baptist to Coptic, would this not be wrong in my church? I feel as if it is a sin to leave my church for his. However I also believe that if we are to marry, it is sworn under the same God…or does that not mean anything? Also, I was told by one person that Eastern Coptic Orthodox members are allowed to marry non EO members if they are of the Christian faith…which I am. Is that true? Basically, I am trying to see what our options are as I do not feel it is right for me to convert and I would never ask him to leave his church behind because I know how important his faith is to him. I will happily get married in his church but I cannot turn my back on mine. If anyone can provide any information it would be GREATLY appreciated as we do not know what to do and we do not want to feel forced to end our relationship over this. Thank you so much and god bless!
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hi sparks. before my conversion i was a baptist. i married a mennonite. you would think that with the similar history and beliefs there would be less friction, right? not so. your beliefs about God, the Church. Jesus ministry, do not go away after you are married. if anything, they become more pronounced. especially when children enter the picture. i would advise you not convert to get married. you will still have the beliefs you have, and would have to live a lie. this could be psychologically devestating. baptist and mennonite are far closer together, and still we were worlds apart on issues. coptic and baptist? and no. my marriage did not survive. do yourself a huge favor. its going to feel lousy, but it will save you alot of hell later on. end the relationship, move on, and find a fellow baptist to marry. it will save you alot of grief. Peace in Christ, and prayers for you. :signofcross:
 
z0wb13 said:
hats off to dzheremi. that is some serious knowledge.

but i don’t understand part of your question you said, “I do not feel it is right for me to convert and I would never ask him to leave his church behind because I know how important his faith is to him. I will happily get married in his church but I cannot turn my back on mine.” my question is to do with the difference between faith and church. are you and he especially attached to the building where services are held, or the pastor/priest, or what? i’m not trying to being fatuous, or maybe i just don’t understand how awful it must feel to be excommunicated. but it just seems that there must be some way to work this all out. like, by moving to another city and finding a new church. or something less drastic, like taking turns;p good luck!
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Church in this case means the faith community, not the building.

Leaving the Church or becoming excommunicated is not as simple as finding another church building.

She does not want to leave the Baptist denomination and become a Coptic Christian. He cannot marry her and stay a Coptic Christian in good standing without her doing so.
 
In reply to z0wb13,
I am 100% willing to be married in his church and to take turns in sharing our services with one another. The problem is more stemming from his side. He says he doesnt think hes allowed to do such. He tells me his understanding of the matter is that I must convert to marry him and there is no way around it. My question basically comes down to…is there a way for us to be married without me having to convert because I certaintly do not want to and I dont feel its fair that I would be forced to do so in order to have him in my life. And like benedict stated…yes, I wouldfeel like I would be living a lie if I were to make that decision to convert because I dont believe I should have to make that change. Our marriage would take place under the same God, we are both Christian…why should be forced to convert?? It just doesnt seem right. So, as I was saying, is there no way around
this other than to convert? Because thats not going to happen. Thanks everyone for your help! It means a lot to me!
 
A mixed denomination marriage will be very difficult. Especially with children and your differing views on baptism, etc.
 
Sparksw10 said:
In reply to z0wb13,
I am 100% willing to be married in his church and to take turns in sharing our services with one another. The problem is more stemming from his side. He says he doesnt think hes allowed to do such. He tells me his understanding of the matter is that I must convert to marry him and there is no way around it. My question basically comes down to…is there a way for us to be married without me having to convert because I certaintly do not want to and I dont feel its fair that I would be forced to do so in order to have him in my life. And like benedict stated…yes, I wouldfeel like I would be living a lie if I were to make that decision to convert because I dont believe I should have to make that change. Our marriage would take place under the same God, we are both Christian…why should be forced to convert?? It just doesnt seem right. So, as I was saying, is there no way around
this other than to convert? Because thats not going to happen. Thanks everyone for your help! It means a lot to me!
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The Copts consider themselves to be the True Church. Like Catholics, they have a Sacramental view of marriage - a sacrament is a particular sign or action that is done which results in an inward spiritual change - this is achieved though by God. In marriage, the man and the woman become one flesh in the spiritual sense.

In order to be married sacramentally, both people must be baptized. But unlike Catholics, the Copts do not consider baptism outside their own church valid. So from their perspective, for him to marry you, you would have to be baptized by them, which means you would have to accept their teachings. That is, you would have to convert.

My suggestion would be that if you think you are interested, go with him to talk to his priest and see what there is available for you to learn more about the Coptic faith. In fact, go even if you think you aren’t but still want to marry your boyfriend. Be prepared to struggle with it, but don’t convert unless you believe it is true. Your boyfriend might like to learn with you, since he seems unsure about some of the teachings of his church.
 
I can’t speak for the Copts, but with the Eastern Orthodox one is only considered “Christian” in these contexts if one is validly baptised, which means being baptised in the trinitarian formula, something which most baptists, as far as I’m aware, don’t do.

However, other things you say seem to indicate he hasn’t checked with his priest or bishop on these things. He should certainly double check with them.
 
Nine_Two said:
I can’t speak for the Copts, but with the Eastern Orthodox one is only considered “Christian” in these contexts if one is validly baptised, which means being baptised in the trinitarian formula, something which most baptists, as far as I’m aware, don’t do.
.
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Unless you are counting children along with agnostic seekers at Baptist Churches then you are about 180 degrees off. As soon as one forms an acceptance of Christ he would go to a church elder or pastor make a public statement of his new faith and be baptised, anyone refusing to convert and potentially lossing a life mate will have been baptised by the trinitarian formula.
 
Sparksw10 said:
In reply to z0wb13,
I am 100% willing to be married in his church and to take turns in sharing our services with one another. The problem is more stemming from his side. He says he doesnt think hes allowed to do such. He tells me his understanding of the matter is that I must convert to marry him and there is no way around it. My question basically comes down to…is there a way for us to be married without me having to convert because I certaintly do not want to and I dont feel its fair that I would be forced to do so in order to have him in my life. And like benedict stated…yes, I wouldfeel like I would be living a lie if I were to make that decision to convert because I dont believe I should have to make that change. Our marriage would take place under the same God, we are both Christian…why should be forced to convert?? It just doesnt seem right. So, as I was saying, is there no way around
this other than to convert? Because thats not going to happen. Thanks everyone for your help! It means a lot to me!
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From what I understand of Coptic Orthodox is that they are very conservative. And while I cannot give you a definitive answer, my understanding from what I have read is that you do need to convert to Coptic Orthodoxy to marry in their Church. But take dzheremi’s advice and send a private message to the forum member called Fr. Kyrillos as he’s a Coptic Orthodox priest.
 
4Squarebaby said:
Unless you are counting children along with agnostic seekers at Baptist Churches then you are about 180 degrees off. As soon as one forms an acceptance of Christ he would go to a church elder or pastor make a public statement of his new faith and be baptised, anyone refusing to convert and potentially lossing a life mate will have been baptised by the trinitarian formula.
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My experience with Baptists has been that they baptize “in the name of Jesus”, and while there are certainly some that may use the proper trinitarian formula, I’ve yet to hear of a baptist group that does.
 
Nine_Two said:
My experience with Baptists has been that they baptize “in the name of Jesus”, and while there are certainly some that may use the proper trinitarian formula, I’ve yet to hear of a baptist group that does.
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At least some of the Baptists here do.
 
Well he has been in contact with his priest. I started this thread in an effort to learn and get advice for my self. As far as what I have been told by his priest, the only way for us to marry is, in fact, for me to convert, but that is something I can not do. Just as if someone were to ask a person of the coptic orthodox faith ifthey’d convert…their response is “absolutely not.” So how is it fair for that to be expected of me in order to be with the one I love. Where is stated that I must convert? Ive been told it is coptic law and that it is required of me, but where exactly is this written? I am comfortable with him staying what he is and me doing the same and still being married. I see it all the time and it works out fine. Ive also agreed that our children can be raised in his church if he so wants. I refuse to let him go and be with someone who is not my true love all because of this. Its not fair and I will not turn my back on my church, just as he never would either. And I shouldnt be forced to do so to keep him.
 
Maybe not fair but it is an Egyptian church where Islam reigns supreme with similar rules for its female members as they expect the man to convert his wife. So absolute rules are put in place to protect the church from death by a thousand marriages, There is another thread running where a member is worried about his father converting to the INC because they have an absolute mentality also.
 
Nine_Two said:
My experience with Baptists has been that they baptize “in the name of Jesus”, and while there are certainly some that may use the proper trinitarian formula, I’ve yet to hear of a baptist group that does.
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I was raised Baptist in the South and I was baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. As far as “I” know, there is no other way to be baptized in the Baptist Church.
 
Sparksw10 said:
Well he has been in contact with his priest. I started this thread in an effort to learn and get advice for my self. As far as what I have been told by his priest, the only way for us to marry is, in fact, for me to convert, but that is something I can not do. Just as if someone were to ask a person of the coptic orthodox faith ifthey’d convert…their response is “absolutely not.” So how is it fair for that to be expected of me in order to be with the one I love. Where is stated that I must convert? Ive been told it is coptic law and that it is required of me, but where exactly is this written? I am comfortable with him staying what he is and me doing the same and still being married. I see it all the time and it works out fine. Ive also agreed that our children can be raised in his church if he so wants. I refuse to let him go and be with someone who is not my true love all because of this. Its not fair and I will not turn my back on my church, just as he never would either. And I shouldnt be forced to do so to keep him.
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Sad as it may be then, you have to choose.

Your denomination or your potential future husband.

If he will not leave his faith for your denomination then to me, he does not seem like the type of person who would alternate between Divine Liturgy and a Baptist service.

This does not seem like a situation where a compromise could be reached.
 
@sparksw10: i hope that i don’t presume too much, but it seems like you are grasping at straws. there isn’t going to be some loophole in coptic law that you are going to find here. you need some perspective. i would slow down whatever you are planning, because if you two are meant to end up together forever, it can wait. i would tell anyone that asks me that they should wait to get married until they are at least 25 years old, because by that point a person’s brain is pretty much done growing.

with all due respect, why don’t you think about joining his church? what parts of it don’t you like, or would you just miss your old congregation too much? maybe i’m missing the point; perhaps i don’t understand well enough the subtle differences between the two faiths.

in a weird way, this decision is almost like practice for getting married. i mean, a huge part of marriage is sacrifice, to your partner and your children. and your boyfriend is asking you to give up, or considerably alter at least, your entire belief system. and then on the other hand, why doesn’t he have to give up his church? or why don’t you just move on, and find a nice baptist boy?

try this. picture your ideal self in 1 year, 3 years, 5, ten and thirty. now, is your boyfriend in that mental image?
 
Sparksw10
Mixed marriages like this are very difficult. You really need to spend a lot of time learning about what his faith teaches before committing to marriage. It would not be fair to your children, not to mention both of you. Learning about what baptists believe is much less complex than those of us in ancient Christian faiths. We have laws we must obey much like congregation laws, only ours is more consistent because of hierarchical authorities placed over us. Pray about this and try to participate more in his parish to learn as much as possible. This would take a long time, maybe a year or two. If there is a class similar to RCIA (catholic) you should at least attend it to learn their beliefs. Who knows it may end up making a lot of sense once you’re exposed to it.

As far as baptism is concerned, some Orthodox baptize you again, probably conditional baptism just in case yours was not done correctly or their is no record of it as is typically in the church of Christ, our previous faith. For about 6 months we witnessed an invalid baptism that was done “in the name of Jesus”, which is not valid because the trinitarian formula includes the F S HS. The scriptures use in the name of Jesus, but really mean the trinitarian formula I believe. However, the Southern Baptist congregation I used to attend growing up used the trinitarian formula. Another belief that must be looked into is “once saved always saved”. This will be a very difficult thing for him to relate to. You could easily end up causing him to sin against his conscience without even realizing it. He may end up deeply sad, disheartened if you do not take his faith seriously. Speak to his priest on this matter in more depth. At least do some research in his faith. No offense, learning Baptist beliefs can be very tricky depending on which one you go to. It can change widely from congregation to congregation. There are not grave consequences for discarding Baptist beliefs as there are discarding Catholic or Orthodox or Oriental beliefs. We believe in mortal sin and that not all sin is equal. Of course, I’m speaking as a Catholic. But learning the ancient faiths is pretty important because it teaches specific and mandatory beliefs. There really is no room for picking and choosing what you want to believe while discarding the other teachings. If he compromises now, eventually it may come back to his conscience like many of us who left and returned to our faiths onces we got exposed to it more. We repent and return because of the depth of its beauty.
 
i think it would be a great idea to pray for sparks so she can be in line with the will of God in this matter. my prayer is that He gives her and her significant other, the clear direction that they need, so they may both glorify Him.i guess we can all give the text book answers about how hard a mixed faith marriage is, and we would be right. but in matters of the heart there is the human element that makes any descision they make a tough descision. Peace and prayer for sparks :gopray2:
 
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