Marriage between Catholics and Protestants

[Reformed]

Looking…searching…cross-referencing…nope, no Scriptural support for your belief in the canon. Surely, as you state that beliefs without SCriptural support are man-made traditions, you have a BIble verse or two that lists the books of the Bible…

You guys don’t really care about what is written, do you? Catholics have a very low view of God-breathed revelation called the Holy Bible. Do you know why the Bible is called the Holy Bible?

 

[cfrancis]

How can history accounts be facts? Only the Bible is God-breathed and not history accounts. Do you embrace history as infallible light as God’s revelation to mankind? I think you have confused biblical revelation with church history.

Reformed, you can either accept the fact the Bible does not provide a list of the books, or you can continue with inane comments such as the one above - your choice.
Apparently other people with whom you’ve carried on discussions ion other boards don’t recognize your sophomoric tactics; I’m willing to bet my 8 year old can spot the logical fallacy in your reply.

 

[cfrancis]

You guys don’t really care about what is written, do you? Catholics have a very low view of God-breathed revelation called the Holy Bible. Do you know why the Bible is called the Holy Bible?

I want you to hum the “Jeopardy” tune to yourself…that’s the rest of us waiting for you to actually participate in the discussion as a give-and-take endeavor, as opposed to your constant evasion.

We Catholics are very interested in what is written: that’s why we’re waiting for you to provide a Bible verse with the list of Bible books.

Now, are you able to tell me what you will accept as evidence for the sacramentality of marriage?

 

[BlestOne]

LOL…isn’t this fun. I’m not sure if the Bible describes marriage as a sacrament. I can post scripture which states my wife and chldren are gifts and blessings from God. Since my wife and I were not married in the Catholic Church, is my marriage still a gift from God? Have I deviated from God’s plan for marriage since the Catholic Church did not peform my marriage?

Of course your marriage is a Gift from God but that doesn’t make it a sacramental marriage. When you get used to Catholic Speak… your marriage is valid (presumably) if there were no impediments to the marriage at the time you contracted it.
What this means is that all the conditions for a valid marriage existed… i.e. you weren’t already married, you aren’t closely related, you entered the union of your own free will, there was no fraudulent deception on the part of either part (You didn’t misrepresent yourself).

Valid and sacramental however are 2 different things. Since Catholics and very few others consider marriages sacramental (imparting grace) the requirements are different for Catholics. In our Faith we recognize that God instituted marriage from the moment he made Eve for Adam and set them to go forth and multiply. Before this marriage did not exist. We believe that this should be celebrated in a certain way… in Church with the church community as witness of this covenant. Marriage is not just between a man and a woman, it is between a man, a woman and God. By including God in this we invite him into our marriage, into our lives and most especially into our family. Because we feel this is a permanent union, we have prayerful discernment and we have certain guidelines that we follow. Those guidelines are the things listed in the paragraph above.

Because we take marriage so seriously, there are certain conditions to being married. Generally, a Catholic, non-Catholic union is discouraged because our view of marriage, family, children varies greatly from some of our Protestant brethren. This is not to say it is impossible, but it is just more difficult and requires a little more paperwork and scrutiny. Some of the others have described this process to you.

What exactly are the questions that worry you about a Catholic/non-Catholic marriage?

 

[1ke]

Thanks for your answer. Please help me understand why marriage is considered a sacrament.

Well, I need to understand what you believe a Sacrament to be. Do you understand what the Catholic Church means by Sacrament?

Was divorce ever considered a mortal sin?

Yes. And, it still is.

 

[1ke]

And, how is marriage between two Christians from different Christian communities prohibited by God?

No one here is arguing that it is prohibited, except you it seems.

The Catholic Church does not teach this, and both cfrancis and I have told you this already.

 

[1ke]

. Do you know why the Bible is called the Holy Bible?

Do you know who named it thus?

Hint: The Catholic Church

 

[Lance]

How can history accounts be facts? Only the Bible is God-breathed and not history accounts. Do you embrace history as infallible light as God’s revelation to mankind? I think you have confused biblical revelation with church history. I can present church history sources that are mutually exclusive from your church history accounts. Heck, the Church Fathers contradicted each other in personal beliefs.

I again state: Do you believe that God just created the Bible in tact as it is? Study history, it was the Catholic church who decided what books went into the Bible and what did not. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit. For the first 400 years of Christianity there was no Bible and for 1500 years all Christians were Catholic or Orthodox.
If you are unwilling to accept the fact that the Bible was given to us by the Catholic Church and that for the first 400 years of Christianity there was no Bible only Tradition and there were no Protestants only Catholics then we are wasting our time discussing this.

 

[Reformed]

I again state: Do you believe that God just created the Bible in tact as it is? Study history, it was the Catholic church who decided what books went into the Bible and what did not. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit. For the first 400 years of Christianity there was no Bible and for 1500 years all Christians were Catholic or Orthodox.
If you are unwilling to accept the fact that the Bible was given to us by the Catholic Church and that for the first 400 years of Christianity there was no Bible only Tradition and there were no Protestants only Catholics then we are wasting our time discussing this.

I think you are way off the thread topic. The Bible is God-breathed and was given to God as His revelation to mankind. It is not a product of mere men. Maybe that’s why Catholics appear to have such a low view of the Scriptures, since you think the Catholic Church gave us the Bible.

 

[Reformed]

I want you to hum the “Jeopardy” tune to yourself…that’s the rest of us waiting for you to actually participate in the discussion as a give-and-take endeavor, as opposed to your constant evasion.

We Catholics are very interested in what is written: that’s why we’re waiting for you to provide a Bible verse with the list of Bible books.

Now, are you able to tell me what you will accept as evidence for the sacramentality of marriage?

Please define sacrament according to the Scriptures. And post scripture references (the entire scripture and not just then reference number) to validate your belief that marriage is a sacrament.

 

[Reformed]

No one here is arguing that it is prohibited, except you it seems.

The Catholic Church does not teach this, and both cfrancis and I have told you this already.

That’s nice to know, so why the prohibition according to your post? Why do you go beyond the Scriptures and Catholic teaching in your prohibition? Do you only do what is right in your own eyes (humanism)?

No. This is always a spiritually perilous idea. It is permitted but discouraged by the Catholic Church. Personally, I don’t think it should be permitted at all.

The Catholic must marry in the Catholic form or receive a dispensation from it. A Catholic must receiver permission to marry a non-Catholic Christian and a dispensation to marry a non-baptized person. A Catholic must promise to raise their children Catholic. A Catholic must continue in the practice of their faith. The permissions necessary for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic should not be given if there is doubt about the Catholic’s ability to continue practicing their faith freely.

That is not an acceptable position for a Catholic.

When a person starts claiming dogmatically a Christian MUST do something that cannot be supported in the Scirptures, we have to conclude that the MUST items are doctrines of men and not from God.

 

[ralphinal]

Reformed,
Do you see an inherent problem with a man being able to order his wife to change denominations?

 

[Reformed]

Reformed,
Do you see an inherent problem with a man being able to order his wife to change denominations?

The central issue has to do with what is required to be united to Christ. I don’t belong to a religious organization that claims to be The One True Church. With all humanity, a person is either united to Christ or he is not. If a person is not united to Christ, that person in under the wrath of God and is still a child of the darkness according to biblical revelation. Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. Here is God’s division in regards to marriage:

2 Corinthians 6:14

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

 

[ralphinal]

The central issue has to do with what is required to be united to Christ. I don’t belong to a religious organization that claims to be The One True Church. With all humanity, a person is either united to Christ or he is not. If a person is not united to Christ, that person in under the wrath of God and is still a child of the darkness according to biblical revelation. Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. Here is God’s division in regards to marriage:

2 Corinthians 6:14

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Here is the situation. According to Jesus, we must be willing to give up anything for him. If I hold that the Catholic Church is the true church, and my wife does not, where does that leave us? According to you, I can order her to leave her faith for mine. However, in doing that, she would feel like she was willing to give up Jesus for me, which is NOT allowed. The inverse is also true.

How do you fix that?

It does not matter how you see denominations. The reality of the situation is that there is deep division with in the Church. These divisions were made by men who chose their own ways instead of God’s. Everyone cannot be correct. I have chosen to be Catholic for many, many reasons. In choosing to be Catholic, I am called to accept that which the Catholic CHurch says as being true. Now, unless you can give PROOF that I am wrong and not just assertions based on a slanted veiw of scipture, I am allowed to accept the Catholic Church as being correct.

Jesus called marriage one man and one woman united with God. THat is enough. TO be of different faith traditions makes it harder to remain married. The Catholic Church knows this, and discourages mixed marriages. That verse that you have quoted comes from a time when you were either CAtholic or you did not accept Christ at all. There were no denominations in Paul’s time.

 

[Reformed]

Here is the situation. According to Jesus, we must be willing to give up anything for him. If I hold that the Catholic Church is the true church, and my wife does not, where does that leave us? According to you, I can order her to leave her faith for mine. However, in doing that, she would feel like she was willing to give up Jesus for me, which is NOT allowed. The inverse is also true.

How do you fix that?

It does not matter how you see denominations. The reality of the situation is that there is deep division with in the Church. These divisions were made by men who chose their own ways instead of God’s. Everyone cannot be correct. I have chosen to be Catholic for many, many reasons. In choosing to be Catholic, I am called to accept that which the Catholic CHurch says as being true. Now, unless you can give PROOF that I am wrong and not just assertions based on a slanted veiw of scipture, I am allowed to accept the Catholic Church as being correct.

Jesus called marriage one man and one woman united with God. THat is enough. TO be of different faith traditions makes it harder to remain married. The Catholic Church knows this, and discourages mixed marriages. That verse that you have quoted comes from a time when you were either CAtholic or you did not accept Christ at all. There were no denominations in Paul’s time.

Do you really think Heaven will have Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthordox distinctions? Do you think Roman Catholics will be in a superior place in Heaven? Do you think there will be Protestants and Orthodox Christians in Heaven alongside with you? Did Christ die for Protestants and Orthodox Christians too? The true eternal church of God is invisible consisting of all who are united to Christ, in-spite of religious affliations.

 

[ralphinal]

Do you really think Heaven will have Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthordox distinctions?

Nope. Never said that.

Do you think Roman Catholics will be in a superior place in Heaven?

Nope. Never said that, either.

Do you think there will be Protestants and Orthodox Christians in Heaven alongside with you?

Assuming I make it to heaven, there will be people who, while they were on this earth, were Protestant and Orthodox there. However, in heaven, they will no longer be Protestant or Orthodox.

Did Christ die for Protestants and Orthodox Christians too?

Yep. Never said he did not.

The true eternal church of God is invisible consisting of all who are united to Christ, in-spite of religious affliations.

But there is a visible portion of it as well. You have ignored that aspect of what a Church is. There is the visible and the invisible.

 

[1ke]

That’s nice to know, so why the prohibition according to your post? Why do you go beyond the Scriptures and Catholic teaching in your prohibition? Do you only do what is right in your own eyes (humanism)?

There is no prohibition in my post. I don’t know what you are talking about.

When a person starts claiming dogmatically a Christian MUST do something that cannot be supported in the Scirptures, we have to conclude that the MUST items are doctrines of men and not from God.

The Church has requirements the Catholic must follow in order to enter in to such a marriage. These are a prerequisite, not a prohibition.

 

[kage_ar]

The scripture passages you quote at the beginning were written BY Catholic clergy TO Catholics.

A Catholic husband is the spiritual head of the household. When the husband has left the practice of the Catholic faith, then, they have resigned as the spiritual head of the household.

The same scriptures tell those Catholics not to be yoked with unbelievers.

 

[1ke]

Do you really think Heaven will have Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthordox distinctions? Do you think Roman Catholics will be in a superior place in Heaven? Do you think there will be Protestants and Orthodox Christians in Heaven alongside with you? Did Christ die for Protestants and Orthodox Christians too? The true eternal church of God is invisible consisting of all who are united to Christ, in-spite of religious affliations.

In Heaven, all will see things as they really are. Christ has only one Church. Everyone who is in Heaven is, by default, a Catholic.

 

[Lance]

I think you are way off the thread topic. The Bible is God-breathed and was given to God as His revelation to mankind. It is not a product of mere men. Maybe that’s why Catholics appear to have such a low view of the Scriptures, since you think the Catholic Church gave us the Bible.

I personally think you are way off the thread. This is after all a Catholic forum. It seems that all you want to do is bash the Catholic Church, you are not going to conver anyone that way. So far you have only made me and others more entrinched in our belief. For that I tank you and wish you well as I will not be wasting anymore time with you as you have been shown where you are wrong and refuse to see the light. You have not answered what the first Christians used since the Bible did not come into existance until about 400 AD.