Marriage, bigamy and annulment

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Gorgias said:
f the state is saying that it can’t divorce Annie and Tom, wouldn’t they have some documentation demonstrating that there is no valid civil marriage between them, such that the canonical case could use it as evidence?
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It doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like the law is deficient here. Like proving to the IRS you are NOT dead
 
If there was a “convalidation” (“the marriage acknowledged by the catholic church”), then there must have been a civil wedding and a marriage recognized by civil law. If that marriage was later found out to be illegal/invalid/null (in civil law) because of the woman already being in a marriage, the state would issue some documentation reflecting this. That’s my understanding of how the civil law would operate.

As far as Catholic law is concerned, I would ask the OP: who said that the Tribunal will not hear the case?

Dan
 
acanonlawyer said:
If that marriage was later found out to be illegal/invalid/null (in civil law) because of the woman already being in a marriage, the state would issue some documentation reflecting this.
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So I thought so too, it seemed weird that Texas would just say “it’s void” but not give the (putative) spouse any sort of documentation.

From what I read online, the man could petition the family court to have a declaration issued that says the marriage is void. I don’t think there is anything that the state automatically provides. So, that would be documentation they could then use in an ecclesial court. N’est pas?
 
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1ke said:
From what I read online, the man could petition the family court to have a declaration issued that says the marriage is void. I don’t think there is anything that the state automatically provides. So, that would be documentation they could then use in an ecclesial court. N’est pas?
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That should work.

As far as the Tribunal is concerned, though, none of this should ultimately matter. It’s obvious that there was a wedding/marriage which was and is recognized by canon law and presumed to be valid. It’s also clear that the Parties involved are no longer living a common life. If a Party wants that marriage’s presumed validity investigated, he has that right.

Dan
 
Ha. Well, as always, it’s just my opinion and it can be freely disregarded at anytime, by anyone in any position of authority in any Tribunal (even my own). I think that covers everything.

Dan
 
it simply shows the marriage license was granted. however we have copies of the first marriage license with Annie and Ed.
 
Just a side question, how can you say the first marriage was not valid?
 
The person his parish has to handle these things brought the news. his advocate.
 
Thank you, you have basically confirmed what I discovered by reading. (that’s good)
You gave me insight into why it seems so hard to explain. (that’s better)
And you have pointed us to some new (to me) resources. Maybe we can get through this.

It’s common ( I want to say strange, but know better), to make choices and later realize how much they have complicated your life, but “Tom” is a blessing in my life I won’t trade. I’ll get him to finally get that family court decree. We’ll hire that cannon lawyer. And maybe, just maybe, live a life with the trials that are merely common.
 
LKWalker said:
Just a side question, how can you say the first marriage was not valid?
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You stated that she is a Catholic and that the first marriage was a civil one. It would seem that marriage lacked canonical form. Hence it would be invalid.

Otherwise your husband would not have been able to convalidate his marriage to her. If she had a canonically valid marriage, her sacramental records would have shown that at the time she and your husband sought to convalidate their marriage.
 
and, help out a little newbe, what is an OP? what are you calling me?
 
OP means either Original Post or Original Poster. I agree with 1ke, she has a great deal of knowledge of marriages situations.
 
LKWalker said:
The person his parish has to handle these things brought the news. his advocate.
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Before hiring a canon (not “cannon”) lawyer, I think it would be wise to discuss the matter with a canon lawyer at the local Tribunal–a canon lawyer who has authority, such as the Judicial Vicar or the Moderator of the Tribunal. Such a person is in a position to determine what truly needs to be done. Besides that, the Tribunal may be able to assign a canon lawyer to serve as your advocate, if that is deemed necessary, and do so free of charge.

I would hope that this obstacle would not be something that impedes a case. It should be rather easily overcome. Once again, though, this is just my opinion and it means nothing of substance. While I may be relatively “conservative” when it comes to opining on the validity of marriages, I may be rather “liberal” regarding the right to present a case and have it accepted by the Court.

Dan
 
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