Marriage/Canon Law/Joining the Catholic Church question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Inity
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

Inity

Guest
Greetings,

This question should be for those familiar with the Canon Law (I’m not 🙂

I know one girl who is married civilly to an un-baptized person (her husband right now doesn’t want to be baptized). She was baptized (but not practicing) Orthodox when she married him. Later she became practicing Orthodox, but now she questions the possibility of joining the Catholic Church.

She is afraid that she’d be denied communion until her civil marriage is blessed. But I need a clear answer.

Thanks in advance.
 
Inity said:
Greetings,

This question should be for those familiar with the Canon Law (I’m not 🙂

I know one girl who is married civilly to an un-baptized person (her husband right now doesn’t want to be baptized). She was baptized (but not practicing) Orthodox when she married him. Later she became practicing Orthodox, but now she questions the possibility of joining the Catholic Church.

She is afraid that she’d be denied communion until her civil marriage is blessed. But I need a clear answer.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
As long as her Orthodox Church recognizes her Marriage as valid and neither has been previously Married, there should be no problem. She would normally be joining the appropriate Eastern Catholic Church corresponding to her Orthodox Church…
 
The last poster mentioned that “as long as the Orthodox church recoqnizes the marriage as being valid the Catholic church will etc”
The Orthodox church DOES NOT recognize the marrige between Orthodox and non baptized persons as valid. They never did, and many hope they one day will. But currently they do not. Your friend will have to have their marriage convalidated in the Catholic Church once he/she converts.

This is why your friend can’t recieve in the Orthodox church. It is becuase they are in an invalid marriage.
 
Hmm, my friend receives in the Orthodox church. And, Russian Orthodox Church recognizes civil marriages as valid.
There are lots of civilly married couples in Russia in similar situation. My mother and father, for example, were baptized in the childhood, not-practicing Orthodox, and married civilly. Later my mother started practicing the Orthodox faith, and father kept anti-christian attitude and refused to have their marriage blessed. And, she was always welcome to receive Communion in the Orthodox Church. The difference between them and my friend’s situation is that they were both baptized.
I’ve had links to official position of Russian Orthodox Church regarding validity of civil marriages, but all these texts are in russian.

Upd.
Here is a quote from official document of Moscow Patriarchate:
The Basis of the Social Concept
X. Personal, family and public morality
mospat.ru/index.php?mid=190
Click to expand...
On December 28, 1998, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church regretted to state that «some spiritual fathers tend to declar common-law marriage invalid or demand that spouses, who have lived together for many years but were not married in church for this or that reason, should divorce… Some spiritual fathers do not allow persons who live in «unwed» marriage to communicate, identifying such a marriage with fornication». The decision adopted by the Synod points out that «while insisting on the necessity of church marriage, the Synod reminds pastors that the Orthodox Church also respects common-law marriage».
(skip)
In accordance with ancient canonical prescriptions, today, too, the Church does not sanctifies marriages contracted between the Orthodox and non-Christians, while recognising them as lawful and not regarding those who live in such a marriage as living in sinful co-habitation.
Click to expand...
 
yes, Lawfull (according to civil Law) but NOT Sacramental and the rules are very clear, An Orthodox Chrisitan who contracts a marriage with a non-Baptized person falls out of communion. They may not recieve. This is a HOT TOPIC amongst active Orthodox. Because nowadays, especially in the USA, there are so many mixed marriages between a Baptized and non-baptized. (If both parties were validy baptized the situation is a different story that is why your friend in Russia was allowed to recieve) but in this case the poster was asking about a baptized and non baptized person.

So, valid in a sence of civility , yes, but valid in the eyes of the church, no. And the Catholic church does not allow its members to marry outside of the church either. Marriage must be perfomed with in the guidlines of the church. this OP’s friend needs a convalidation.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
So, valid in a sence of civility , yes, but valid in the eyes of the church, no. And the Catholic church does not allow its members to marry outside of the church either. Marriage must be perfomed with in the guidlines of the church. this OP’s friend needs a convalidation.
Click to expand...
Hmm, but can convalidation be done for un-baptized person? Her husband has no intent to be baptized. And probably he would refuse any church ceremonies.

It’s interesting, I didn’t see the official rule in Russian Orthodox Church that someone who marries an un-baptized person, should not receive. We can keep in mind, though, that she married via civil ceremony when she was baptized, but not practicing Orthodox.
I think I should ask my orthodox friends in Russia, too.
 
You should probably ask a Russian Orthodox Priest. I am basing my responses on articles and books I have read on the topic. I also had a conversation with a Greek Orthodox priest about this same topic very recently. The Priest said the spouse would have to baptised and then have the wedding blessed in the church to restore full communion. Like I said it is a hot topic here in the US. I know several people who this affects. Some have even thought about the Catholic church as an alternative because the Orthodox church won’t allow the interfaith marriage but the Catholic church will. Meaning the Orthodox church you lose privillage to communion, the Catholic church, with proper dispensation allows for such a marriage to take place and be blessed.
 
I read some where that the Catholic Church under certain circumstances will perform a convalidation with out the otherspouse even needing to be involved. I will find that for you and post the link.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
You should probably ask a Russian Orthodox Priest.
Click to expand...
I asked in the russian Orthodox forum I participate - I don’t know particular priests, but some people participating in the discussins there are priests. I hope to get an answer.
This girl is very devoted christian and I can’t imagine her life without the Communion.
I would like to know how the convalidation of marriage with an un-baptized person in the Catholic Church can be performed…
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I read some where that the Catholic Church under certain circumstances will perform a convalidation with out the otherspouse even needing to be involved. I will find that for you and post the link.
Click to expand...
Thanks! 🙂
 
I can’t speak to any of the Orthodox issues, but I had my marriage with my non-baptized husband convalidated several years ago.

If her husband is willing to do the ceremony, it can be very brief. Mine was about 10 minutes and the only people there asides from my husband, myself and the priest, were two witnesses. The two witnesses are required by the Church.

We had to complete paperwork, which the priest helped us with, to request a dispensation from the bishop for what is called a “disparity of cult,” meaning that my husband wasn’t baptized. it was all pretty routine and didn’t take long. Of course, neither my husband nor I had previous marriages.

To have a marriage convalidated without the non-Catholic spouse’s knowledge is called a “radical sanation.” If you google that you will find some links explaining it.
 
Thanks Luvs2Learn and Anne1964, this was really helpful.
I will continue to research about Orthodox Church position regarding such marriages, but my main question is now resolved, thanks.
 
And, Russian Orthodox Church recognizes civil marriages as valid.

Actually, this is not so.

Oikonomia (leniency) had to be exercised during the Soviet ascendancy in this matter, but it was NEVER applied to dioceses outside the Soviet Union.

And Orthodox Churches not behind the Iron Curtain (such as Greece and Constantinople) never have recognized civil marriages for their members.
 
Well, I quoted the official “Social concept” of Russian Orthodox Church, above, with the link. That civil marriages are “lawful”.
May be other Orthodox Churches have other positions; I haven’t seen official documents yet.
 
The Catholic Church does not recognize your friend’s marriage as valid because she is Orthodox and Orthodox have a requirement of form for validity-- she did not marry in the Orthodox Church therefore it is not valid.

However, if she wants to become a Catholic she can indeed seek convalidation of the marriage. Her husband does not have to be baptized or practicing any religion for her to become a Catholic and have the marriage convalidated. She can seek convalidation or radical sanation.

She should talk to the priest in the Eastern Rite Catholic Church of which she will become part when she makes her profession of faith. The priest will help her through everything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top