Marriage Ceremony, no Communion?

[Shoshannah]

Hello all,

I am not sure how to word this question, or if I am posting in the right section? (It is my first time posting a question, I apologize in advance).

Anyhow, on to my question. I have a friend who attends Mass in a neighboring parish. Her parents were married civilly for many years. They decided to speak to their priest about getting re-married in the Catholic Church (the proper term escapes me at the moment). They were informed by the priest that they would not be able to receive Communion during their ceremony because they were already married civilly. Having known other couples who were in similar situations but did however receive Communion during their (re-)marriage, they asked a priest from a different parish about this. The second priest said it would be fine for them to receive Communion during their wedding ceremony (presumably after a proper confession). When the first priest found out about what the second priest had told them, he said that those are customs from other countries but not something that is done here in the U.S. Is this correct?

I had never heard of this and was wondering if someone could shed some light?

Thank you in advance and God Bless.

 

[Vico]

Hello all,

I am not sure how to word this question, or if I am posting in the right section? (It is my first time posting a question, I apologize in advance).

Anyhow, on to my question. I have a friend who attends Mass in a neighboring parish. Her parents were married civilly for many years. They decided to speak to their priest about getting re-married in the Catholic Church (the proper term escapes me at the moment). They were informed by the priest that they would not be able to receive Communion during their ceremony because they were already married civilly. Having known other couples who were in similar situations but did however receive Communion during their (re-)marriage, they asked a priest from a different parish about this. The second priest said it would be fine for them to receive Communion during their wedding ceremony (presumably after a proper confession). When the first priest found out about what the second priest had told them, he said that those are customs from other countries but not something that is done here in the U.S. Is this correct?

I had never heard of this and was wondering if someone could shed some light?

Thank you in advance and God Bless.

Convalidation is the term. If they are an interfaith marriage, then the practice is not to receive communion. If both are Catholic then it is possible, if they are in a state of grace, which means confession followed by no sexual relations or scandal through the convalidation. I believe the practice may vary in different dioceses.

 

[laszlo]

When I was child, at least in Hungary almost no marriages were celebrated during Mass. There was local custom that those who lived openly together should not marry in white outfit, but this was nothing to do with the Church, except that the Church promoted the chastity.

Now as far as I know there is a problem with marriage during Mass if one of the parties is not Catholic: non Catholics (protestants of non-baptized person) may not receive the Holy Communion.

 

[Shoshannah]

Convalidation is the term. If they are an interfaith marriage, then the practice is not to receive communion. If both are Catholic then it is possible, if they are in a state of grace, which means confession followed by no sexual relations or scandal through the convalidation. I believe the practice may vary in different dioceses.

Thank you so much for your response. Yes, convalidation. In this case, I believe both are Catholic.

However, that brings up more questions for me. By interfaith marriage, do you mean a couple in which one person is Catholic marrying another person who is non-Catholic? I always thought that both persons had to be Catholic in order to be married in a Catholic Church? Thanks again.

 

[Shoshannah]

When I was child, at least in Hungary almost no marriages were celebrated during Mass. There was local custom that those who lived openly together should not marry in white outfit, but this was nothing to do with the Church, except that the Church promoted the chastity.

Now as far as I know there is a problem with marriage during Mass if one of the parties is not Catholic: non Catholics (protestants of non-baptized person) may not receive the Holy Communion.

Thank you for your insight. I’m so used to seeing marriages w/Mass and all Catholic weddings I have attended both persons were Catholic, so I guess that was my frame of reference.

 

[1ke]

Thank you so much for your response. Yes, convalidation. In this case, I believe both are Catholic.

There is nothing preventing the couple from receiving Holy Communion in the context of the Rite of Marriage inside Mass. If they elect to have the Rite of Marriage outside Mass, then whether or not Holy Communion is offered would depend.

I’m not really sure what priest 1 is referring to.

I always thought that both persons had to be Catholic in order to be married in a Catholic Church?

A Catholic can indeed marry a non-Catholic. I’m not sure where you got the idea they cannot.

 

[Vico]

Thank you so much for your response. Yes, convalidation. In this case, I believe both are Catholic.

However, that brings up more questions for me. By interfaith marriage, do you mean a couple in which one person is Catholic marrying another person who is non-Catholic? I always thought that both persons had to be Catholic in order to be married in a Catholic Church? Thanks again.

Your’re welcome. I am glad I could answer the question.

I suppose I should have said mixed marriage. There are two kinds of mixed marriage and they both require a dispensation:

baptised - disparity of worship dispensation
non-baptised - disparity of cult dispensation

There was a time when Catholics could not be in a mixed marriage. Changes were made in 1965 for Eastern Catholics and in March 25, 1967 for Latin Catholics allowing Catholic marriage to Orthodox, with a dispensation. Then in 1970 other mixed marriages were allowed with a dispensation.

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm

 

[Phemie]

Your’re welcome. I am glad I could answer the question.

I suppose I should have said mixed marriage. There are two kinds of mixed marriage and they both require a dispensation:

baptised - disparity of worship dispensation
non-baptised - disparity of cult dispensation

There was a time when Catholics could not be in a mixed marriage. Changes were made in 1965 for Eastern Catholics and in March 25, 1967 for Latin Catholics allowing Catholic marriage to Orthodox, with a dispensation. Then in 1970 other mixed marriages were allowed with a dispensation.

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm

Not quite. Disparity of worship and disparity of cult are the same thing.

A Catholic needs ‘permission’ to marry a baptized Christian. In many dioceses the Bishop has delegated the granting of that permission to the priest preparing the couple. In dioceses where the Bishop has not delegated this granting of permission, if the priest proceeds with the wedding without getting the permission the marriage is valid but illicit.

A Catholic needs the Bishop’s ‘dispensation’ for disparity of cult/worship to marry a non-baptized person. If the priest proceeds with the wedding without getting the dispensation the marriage is invalid.

Mixed-marriages have existed between Catholics and baptized for longer than you indicate. My cousin was married to an Anglican, in the Church, in the 50s. At that time they required a dispensation and the ceremony could not take place in the church itself, some were celebrated in the priest’s office or, as in her case, in the sacristy (which in our parish was set up as a chapel with an altar). The non-Catholic had to promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith. That promise is no longer required of the non-Catholic party.

 

[puzzleannie]

some cautions
in stories like this we only know what we heard, 2nd or 3rd hand, from one side, we never know what the priest in question actually said, in what context.

No a marriage, whether a convalidation or a “first time” between a Catholic and a non-Catholic, at least here, would not normally be celebrated in the context of a Mass, nor within a communion service, because one spouse and half the guests would not be able to receive, and the sign of unity would be lost, just when it should be strongest. Also while it is possible for a Catholic couple who is convalidating their marriage to do it within Mass, and to have as elaborate a celebration as they wish, it would probably be discouraged, and a smaller scale exchange of vows encouraged simply because of the fact that the larger public celebration emphasizes the fact that they did in fact live together without benefit of a valid marriage. It is really a matter of more sensitivity on the part of the church and the priest in question. Third we don’t know in what context the advice was given to a particular couple, which would always involve the timing of confession and absolution before receiving communion.

Fourth almost always when people reject what priest #1 tells them and go to another parish, for weddings or any other reason, priest #2 often gives them different advice without knowing the whole story.

fifth we don’t know where this happened and it may very well be that customs and practices differ from diocese to diocese, or country to country, and the couple did receive the proper counsel for the policy in that area.

 

[Vico]

Not quite. Disparity of worship and disparity of cult are the same thing.

A Catholic needs ‘permission’ to marry a baptized Christian. In many dioceses the Bishop has delegated the granting of that permission to the priest preparing the couple. In dioceses where the Bishop has not delegated this granting of permission, if the priest proceeds with the wedding without getting the permission the marriage is valid but illicit.

A Catholic needs the Bishop’s ‘dispensation’ for disparity of cult/worship to marry a non-baptized person. If the priest proceeds with the wedding without getting the dispensation the marriage is invalid.

Mixed-marriages have existed between Catholics and baptized for longer than you indicate. My cousin was married to an Anglican, in the Church, in the 50s. At that time they required a dispensation and the ceremony could not take place in the church itself, some were celebrated in the priest’s office or, as in her case, in the sacristy (which in our parish was set up as a chapel with an altar). The non-Catholic had to promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith. That promise is no longer required of the non-Catholic party.

Thank you Phemie, I was thinking of the broad sense of mixed marriage not the strict sense. In the 1917 code (CIC 1060-1064) they were impediments (and that was the code in use when Matrimonia mixta was promulgated in 1970) and both the terms disparitatas cultus or disparity of cult and mixta religio or mixed religion have specific meanings. So this can be important historically, such as you mention the Catholic-Anglican marriage in the 1950s which would have required a dispensation then.

impediment needing a dispensation (1983 CIC): disparitas cultus, baptised Catholic with non-baptised

impediment needing a dispensation (1917 CIC) or prohibition needing a permission (1970): mixta religio, baptised Catholic with baptised

See canons (1983 and 1990): CIC 1086,1124-1129, CCEO 780-781, 813-816

 

[Shoshannah]

There is nothing preventing the couple from receiving Holy Communion in the context of the Rite of Marriage inside Mass. If they elect to have the Rite of Marriage outside Mass, then whether or not Holy Communion is offered would depend.

I’m not really sure what priest 1 is referring to.

A Catholic can indeed marry a non-Catholic. I’m not sure where you got the idea they cannot.

Oops, yes thank you. I know a Catholic is able to marry a non-Catholic. I should have been more specific.

For instance, two of my siblings are in relationships with non-Catholics (one with a fallen-away Catholic now Apostolic; the other with a believer in Christ but not part of any denomination). In both situations they are at a standstill about getting married, because of the belief that both parties had to be baptized Catholic in order to have a Catholic wedding ceremony. They know they can marry civilly, they know they can approach another denomination, but my siblings want to be married in a Catholic church. I think perhaps they should meet with our local priest for further instruction

 

[Shoshannah]

some cautions
in stories like this we only know what we heard, 2nd or 3rd hand, from one side, we never know what the priest in question actually said, in what context.

No a marriage, whether a convalidation or a “first time” between a Catholic and a non-Catholic, at least here, would not normally be celebrated in the context of a Mass, nor within a communion service, because one spouse and half the guests would not be able to receive, and the sign of unity would be lost, just when it should be strongest. Also while it is possible for a Catholic couple who is convalidating their marriage to do it within Mass, and to have as elaborate a celebration as they wish, it would probably be discouraged, and a smaller scale exchange of vows encouraged simply because of the fact that the larger public celebration emphasizes the fact that they did in fact live together without benefit of a valid marriage. It is really a matter of more sensitivity on the part of the church and the priest in question. Third we don’t know in what context the advice was given to a particular couple, which would always involve the timing of confession and absolution before receiving communion.

Fourth almost always when people reject what priest #1 tells them and go to another parish, for weddings or any other reason, priest #2 often gives them different advice without knowing the whole story.

fifth we don’t know where this happened and it may very well be that customs and practices differ from diocese to diocese, or country to country, and the couple did receive the proper counsel for the policy in that area.

Yes, you are correct, I myself received second hand information from my friend who was not present during these conversations with either priest.

It does seem though, that perhaps the first priest was encouraging a less elaborate celebration due to the fact that her parents had been civilly married for many years and had children (my friend was a teenager at the time) – it was in fact a convalidation and not a first time wedding.

This conversation left me wondering because I have 2 family members in civil marriages wanting to have them convalidated in the future. (We are praying that they decide sooner than later). They might be surprised to hear this as well.

 

[Shoshannah]

Thank you Phemie, I was thinking of the broad sense of mixed marriage not the strict sense. In the 1917 code (CIC 1060-1064) they were impediments (and that was the code in use when Matrimonia mixta was promulgated in 1970) and both the terms disparitatas cultus or disparity of cult and mixta religio or mixed religion have specific meanings. So this can be important historically, such as you mention the Catholic-Anglican marriage in the 1950s which would have required a dispensation then.

impediment needing a dispensation (1983 CIC): disparitas cultus, baptised Catholic with non-baptised

impediment needing a dispensation (1917 CIC) or prohibition needing a permission (1970): mixta religio, baptised Catholic with baptised

See canons (1983 and 1990): CIC 1086,1124-1129, CCEO 780-781, 813-816

Thank You both Phemie and Vico for your knowledge and information!