Marriage concern

[Alix1912]

Please keep this in mind: it may not be “casual dismissal”; not seeking that convalidation very well could be a conclusion she has come to because you view the mass as a heresy. Perhaps her heart holds out the hope you’ll be called one day to where she is. After all, the terms of the convalidation require your unwavering support of your children (now or future kiddies, and remember that children can come at all times in various fashions) to be raised in the faith as well. I would ask you; do you feel ready to make that sort of commitment to her, and to the Catholic church? I think that might be the unspoken “biggie” here.

Actually that is not true…only the Catholic party has to promise to try their best to raise the children Catholic. This was how it was explained by both the priests who have served at my husband’s parrish. My husband was a seriously lapsed Catholic when we married, and rediscovered his faith about 9 months later. When my husband and I went through radical sanation, I was very upfront that while my husband agreed he would raise try to raise the kids Catholic, I made no such promise.

Our kids will be baptized Lutheran, and mostly raised in the Lutheran Church, because that is what we agreed to when we got married and I hold my husband to that promise. As a family we attend Lutheran Worship on Sunday, and my husband goes to mass afterward or on Saturday night. Occasionally for important services I go with him to mass as well, mainly because it’s important to him. I will not deny my kids access to going to mass with my husband for those occasions, or to the stations of the cross, or learning to pray the rosary, because I find these to be beautiful expressions of faith. If as young adults they come to me and what to convert, I also will not stop them, to me there are to few differences between the two denominations to split hairs or my family over.

As to the Mass is heresy comment, in the OP’s defense…many, many, MANY Catholics I have talked to and whose posts on this forum I have read say going to a protestant service for any reason is heresy, my husband has been told this by fellow Catholics a lot. How do you think that makes the protestant spouse in an interfaith marriage feel? Also in the OP’s defense, his wife made this choice, she has brought this turmoil on her family. Her reasons (following God and her faith) may have been good, but she also needs to deal with the consequences that her choice has created, just as my husband did. It’s not always the easiest thing, but it is part of being married, you have to work together and help each other.

 

[simmslaw]

I know much of this in my rational side. Still, this issue haunts me and hurts deeply. I have been looking for my wife to listen to me, understand that this is an issue for me and - thus, is a problem for both of us. I wanted her to talk to me about it, teach me, show me, guide me - anything but dismiss me. Since she won’t do that, I’m trying to find either a ceremony or a rhetorical argument that will make me able to put this behind me.

Many of you will never be able to even understand what I’m talking about. I get that; I even can see that myself. I also know there is more to this than anullment. It is the totality of her conversion process and the human carnage that it left behind. This issue is just the one particular item I believe that I stuck all my emotional issues behind.

I’m smart and logical; still, there is part of me that is just wounded and irrational and wants to be tended to kindly and with patience.

My heart bleeds for you. Perhaps your wife is not in a position to do what you ask at this time. Perhaps God has given you this cross to bear and is only asking for you to surrender this to him and He will tend to you. It sounds like both you and your wife are suffering in this - you as you have outlined in your posts and your wife, if I can speculate, knowing that her journey has caused such pain and separation. She must herself feel equally isolated and vulnerable.

Love your wife as you have for the past 27 years. I will pray for both of you.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

Actually that is not true…only the Catholic party has to promise to try their best to raise the children Catholic. This was how it was explained by both the priests who have served at my husband’s parrish. My husband was a seriously lapsed Catholic when we married, and rediscovered his faith about 9 months later. When my husband and I went through radical sanation, I was very upfront that while my husband agreed he would raise try to raise the kids Catholic, I made no such promise.

Our kids will be baptized Lutheran, and mostly raised in the Lutheran Church, because that is what we agreed to when we got married and I hold my husband to that promise. As a family we attend Lutheran Worship on Sunday, and my husband goes to mass afterward or on Saturday night. Occasionally for important services I go with him to mass as well, mainly because it’s important to him. I will not deny my kids access to going to mass with my husband for those occasions, or to the stations of the cross, or learning to pray the rosary, because I find these to be beautiful expressions of faith. If as young adults they come to me and what to convert, I also will not stop them, to me there are to few differences between the two denominations to split hairs or my family over.

As to the Mass is heresy comment, in the OP’s defense…many, many, MANY Catholics I have talked to and whose posts on this forum I have read say going to a protestant service for any reason is heresy, my husband has been told this by fellow Catholics a lot. How do you think that makes the protestant spouse in an interfaith marriage feel? Also in the OP’s defense, his wife made this choice, she has brought this turmoil on her family. Her reasons (following God and her faith) may have been good, but she also needs to deal with the consequences that her choice has created, just as my husband did. It’s not always the easiest thing, but it is part of being married, you have to work together and help each other.

Not that I don’t believe your situation- I completely do- but this was not how our parish priest explained it to us (hence my personal experience reference).

I don’t consider protestant services a heresy- I don’t know personally Catholics who do- but one of the reasons previously I suggested avoiding forums for good info and going somewhat straight to the source, was because I have seen some awfully oddball stuff here I won’t go into detail, we’d get too off course.

BUT, long story short, my priest won’t convalidate unless the children are to be raised in the faith. Maybe the wife in question and I go to the same parish Certainly, she did bring a lot of strife to her family…but the Holy Spirit guides us; hopefully the Holy Spirit will also help her to help her husband feel better about all this.

 

[stelline]

I’m not saying every thread of this type leads to someone saying there is an anullment waiting to happen, but it does occur in threads like these. I fear that every Catholic holds out that “get out of jail card” for that very reason. I know it’s not true, but if you step outside yourself and read some of these objectively and without participating, you’ll see a scary picture emerge.

Hi Chosen, I hope this thread has somehow helped to ease your mind.

Anybody can want an annulment for any reason under sun. Doesn’t mean they are going to get it. Tons of people babble on CAF about annulments, and yet hardly understand a thing about them (There are unfortunately many Catholics who are uneducated about their faith).

No, not every Catholic has a “get out of jail card” as you fear. That statement of yours shows how you have yet to grasp how annulments work, and more importantly, what requirements the Catholic Church says MUST be present at the time of the ceremony for a valid marriage. This is completely understandable as you are not Catholic nor were raised as one.

The Catholic Church tries its best to ensure that valid marriages are taking place, but also tries to ensure that people are not being forced to live in psuedo-marriages which have never really existed. The Church has NO POWER to dissolve valid marriages, so if you and your wife met all the requirements for a valid marriage in the first place, you will be married until one of you dies.

You shouldn’t have to worry about this. After all, your wife would have to civilly divorce you first before applying for an annulment. If things have gotten so bad as to come to that, what are the chances that she will come crawling back to you just because she was denied an annulment? The Church allows couples to live separately for grave reasons.

I think unless you become a raving loon, your wife would never even consider a civil divorce. My (free) advice is to put it out of your mind and focus on praying for God’s will to be done. That’s what I do when I’m at a loss for what to do in hairy situations. Best of luck to you, Chosen.

 

[1ke]

I think that reading the forums can be a double-edged sword. You are under the impression that a lot of things “qualify” for a decree of nullity. In fact, there is no “qualifying” criteria. There are grounds for a decree of nullity based on the impediments listed in Canon Law.

Here’s a link to that list of impediments.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM

Anyone you’ve seen talking about the possibility of a “shotgun” wedding being grounds for nullity is talking in general terms. Each marriage is evaluated on its own merits. No generalities, always specifics. What someone is proposing in this case is that perhaps there was a defect in consent. Consent must always be free.

So, in some cases, a pregnancy might lead to compromised consent (think Dad threatening you to “marry the boy” or get “kicked out” of the house. Given that choice, a girl might marry under duress. Or the boy might have no interest in marrying except he was pressured into “doing the right thing.” Again, that may have been duress.

Another couple in the same situation may have had no coersion at all, and no compromised consent.

You were 17, that’s young. But, not all 17 year olds are created equal. Some are quite mature. The baby situation may have pressured you two into marrying when you otherwise would not have, but maybe it just moved up the date for two people already committed to each other. The tribunal would get into very specific details when dealing with a defect in consent.

It seems to me your wife is trying to tell you that she does not question the validity of her consent at the time vows were exchanged. Even if there was some coersion or pressure at the time of the marriage, the marriage can become valid when the impediment ceased.

If there were any doubt about the validity, you could convalidate. And, if the impediment was not in the public forum (meaning, it was known only to on of you two) you could renew your consent together in the living room tonight and it would take care of the whole thing:

Can. 1156 §1. To convalidate a marriage which is invalid because of a diriment impediment, it is required that the impediment ceases or is dispensed and that at least the party conscious of the impediment renews consent.

§2. Ecclesiastical law requires this renewal for the validity of the convalidation even if each party gave consent at the beginning and did not revoke it afterwards.

Can. 1157 The renewal of consent must be a new act of the will concerning a marriage which the renewing party knows or thinks was null from the beginning.

Can. 1158 §1. If the impediment is public, both parties must renew the consent in canonical form, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.

§2. If the impediment cannot be proven, it is sufficient that the party conscious of the impediment renews the consent privately and in secret, provided that the other perseveres in the consent offered; if the impediment is known to both parties, both are to renew the consent.

 

[1ke]

Oh, and one more thing.

If you want to get a better understanding of the Catholic teaching on marriage and nullity, I suggest the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It’s much more reliable than answers you will get on here. He explains all of the impediments, and gives examples of how they may play out “in real life.”

 

[dulcissima]

I know much of this in my rational side. Still, this issue haunts me and hurts deeply. I have been looking for my wife to listen to me, understand that this is an issue for me and - thus, is a problem for both of us. I wanted her to talk to me about it, teach me, show me, guide me - anything but dismiss me. Since she won’t do that, I’m trying to find either a ceremony or a rhetorical argument that will make me able to put this behind me.

Many of you will never be able to even understand what I’m talking about. I get that; I even can see that myself. I also know there is more to this than anullment. It is the totality of her conversion process and the human carnage that it left behind. This issue is just the one particular item I believe that I stuck all my emotional issues behind.

I’m smart and logical; still, there is part of me that is just wounded and irrational and wants to be tended to kindly and with patience.

Surrender. You can’t have control over everything in your life. Put your faith in God. Share your fears with him, tell him your needs, and most of all trust in him.