Marriage Consoling Question

[joe_1976]

Currently my marriage to my wife is pretty rocky… I have been in consoling, and my wife started individual consoling after she bailed on marriage consular with our first marriage consular. We recently started with different marriage, and have about 3 sessions with the marriage consular this one month. My questions is this we have not had individual sessions with our marriage consular even though I have asked. The consular said it is not really unnecessary to do this. My reason wanting a individual session is so I can share information without hurting my wife. I wish to share few particular problem we have had in marriage, I would like that marriage consular help use the correct words.

For those to are aware of how marriage typical works “Would you say that marriage consoling typically includes an individual session?” I just wish to be able to freely speak without being in fear…

 

[peacoat]

Hi Joe,

Each marriage counceller has their own way of doing things. Some like to validate each individual and “get both sides” so to speak. Others see the couple as a unit and do not wish to let you say those things in private because they feel they need to be spoken openly and understood as such. If the issues you are dealing with have nothing to do with your wife, then you might want to seek individual counselling with someone who specializes in that. If it does involve your wife then it probably be spoken and resolved with her, not with you alone.

I know a nun who did marriage counselling and didn’t see people on an individual basis for marriage counselling because she felt it inevitably lead to one-sided “see I told you” looks and other things that really went against the purpose of marriage counselling.`

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Seeing you or your wife separately as an individual client leads to conflict of interest issues. Working with you as a couple involves both of you and seeing one of you and getting more of your perspective and opinion could sway the counselor toward you and away from your spouse. Most counselors won’t do this and it goes against the ethics of the profession.

 

[robwar]

Currently my marriage to my wife is pretty rocky… I have been in consoling, and my wife started individual consoling after she bailed on marriage consular with our first marriage consular. We recently started with different marriage, and have about 3 sessions with the marriage consular this one month. My questions is this we have not had individual sessions with our marriage consular even though I have asked. The consular said it is not really unnecessary to do this. My reason wanting a individual session is so I can share information without hurting my wife. I wish to share few particular problem we have had in marriage, I would like that marriage consular help use the correct words.

For those to are aware of how marriage typical works “Would you say that marriage consoling typically includes an individual session?” I just wish to be able to freely speak without being in fear…

My husband is a marriage counselor and I know that he does both individual and conjoint.
it depends on the situation with the couple and it is not unusual. He has done “marriage counseling” with just one of the partners. If you want an individual session you need to speak with who you are working with. Sometimes, one partner does not show. But, if you think that you want an individual to influence to your side or point of view, you might be denied by the counselor. One final thing it is spelled counselor not consular, unless this is some British version? Good luck in putting your marriage back together.

 

[robwar]

Seeing you or your wife separately as an individual client leads to conflict of interest issues. Working with you as a couple involves both of you and seeing one of you and getting more of your perspective and opinion could sway the counselor toward you and away from your spouse. Most counselors won’t do this and it goes against the ethics of the profession.

that is not true at all. It depends on the couple and the situation. Sometimes individual sessions are needed and appropriate in a conjoint marriage therapy. It totally depends on the couple, the situation and to make such blanket statements is again is not accurate. i know my husband has done"marriage counseling" with just one active partner. There never is a one size fits all in therapy.

 

[peacoat]

that is not true at all. It depends on the couple and the situation. Sometimes individual sessions are needed and appropriate in a conjoint marriage therapy. It totally depends on the couple, the situation and to make such blanket statements is again is not accurate. i know my husband has done"marriage counseling" with just one active partner. There never is a one size fits all in therapy.

No, but there are therapists who will not see individuals during marriage counselling…no matter what. Many who are religious or worth their snuff do this.

 

[joe_1976]

Part of the reason why I asked this question is the following…

The first marriage counselor (in a individual session) told me I would never have a normal marriage and that I should divorce. Additional there are other actions of my with (our family, our friends, and her coworkers) that will ruin our marriage(sorry I can not give all the details).

My wife is really struggle in life… in fact I emailed her dad recently because we rarely see her parents, she can go weeks or months and speak to them. Both her parents are struggling(but really want to) to have a relationship with their daughter, and she wishes to have a relationship with them. It is not currently fixable without outside help. The reason and only thing I really mentioned to her dad is this, I know you can see you daughter is struggle as parents do you have any advise? I got a email back thanking my for my concern , but what is said is talk to a priest and get her professional consoling because she really needs it.

How do I introduce the happenings that are outside of the realm of marriage, but are destroying our marriage? Also, I do not think it is important to share with my wife what the other marriage counselor said, but I do think it could help the current find some of my hesitation. I think some of these things are extremely important, but do not wish to share them in a hurtful way in-front of my wife. If share them first, the counselor can help my choose the correct words.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

that is not true at all. It depends on the couple and the situation. Sometimes individual sessions are needed and appropriate in a conjoint marriage therapy. It totally depends on the couple, the situation and to make such blanket statements is again is not accurate. i know my husband has done"marriage counseling" with just one active partner. There never is a one size fits all in therapy.

No, it is true. And I didn’t say you can’t do marriage counseling with just one partner. What I stated is that a counselor USUALLY will not see both spouses in one session, and then also one of the spouses separately. That is the situation that can cause a conflict of interest, because the counselor can be influenced by seeing just one of the spouses without the other one present.

I have been told this by more than one therapist.

 

[joe_1976]

I understand about the one side, but if both sides have the chance to speak privately. Is that not part of job of the counselor not to take sides, is that not why they were paid and went to school.

I guess then I have a question for the people that say for the people that say individual sessions are a bad idea. There are a couple marriage breakers that have happen in the past, if they happen again I will file for divorce. How do I express my feelings about this issues with cause more problems. If I just speak of them in front of my wife they may come across more problems. If I can speak of individually , I feel I will be able to speak in a more positive manner in front of my wife. I am not trying to throw my wife under the bus, nor have the counselor take my side(for all I know they could side with my wife). Although I want to fight for my marriage, I feel the need to let it be known why I am not 100% on board with all the suggestions that have been made.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I understand about the one side, but if both sides have the chance to speak privately. Is that not part of job of the counselor not to take sides, is that not why they were paid and went to school.

I guess then I have a question for the people that say for the people that say individual sessions are a bad idea. There are a couple marriage breakers that have happen in the past, if they happen again I will file for divorce. How do I express my feelings about this issues with cause more problems. If I just speak of them in front of my wife they may come across more problems. If I can speak of individually , I feel I will be able to speak in a more positive manner in front of my wife. I am not trying to throw my wife under the bus, nor have the counselor take my side(for all I know they could side with my wife). Although I want to fight for my marriage, I feel the need to let it be known why I am not 100% on board with all the suggestions that have been made.

But you see, it is a different dynamic when seeing an individual. The therapist is then “on your side,” so to speak - he or she is concentrating on helping YOU with a problem. The other spouse is at a disadvantage in that situation, having no individual attention and not knowing that you are seeing the counselor on your own (confidentiality would not allow the therapist to let her know unless you said it was OK). If you have already asked the counselor for a private session and he or she has said no, then you will have to work the issues through in your joint sessions with your wife. Perhaps you need to face up to things with your wife and get the issues out in the open.

Or, you could get a different counselor, perhaps in the same practice. That therapist would help YOU work on YOUR issues, and then the other counselor would be helping with the two of you in the marriage.

 

[joe_1976]

Thanks Juliane… I was going to let it be but you seem to know what you are talking about…

I will provide one example of something that I wish to bring up in private session counselor… one of the several issues we have is family. She hates spending time with either of our families mine or hers(but holidays it is sometimes needs). Christmas was a mess and we still have not scene her brother(2 hours away) for Christmas… Shortly after we were married I could quickly see the relationship fall apart from her and her brother(wife and young kids). Recently I did something I never did before I called my sister-in-law to try to sort things out. My sister-in-law told her brother is afraid of my wife for the kids sake (something happened before we were married comments houghts I am not sure what). Until safety assurance can rebuilt the parents(grandparents of the kids must be present. My wife does not know this.

To my question… So if the marriage counselor “why did you not encourage her visiting the niece
ephews?”, I can not say “your brother is afraid you are going to scare emotionally harm the kids?”. From what I gather from my sister-in-law the brother one day is willing to, but needs a couple good visits(we only have 1-2 a years), on thanksgiving my wife just dug a deeper hole with her brother. So this is not my issue but my wife’s, but it involves me. I am not trying to get the counselor to take my side, just understand the scope of what is going on.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You have a lot of problems. A LOT of problems. All I can say is, you need to know exactly what is going on with your wife, and if that means talking about the problems in a marriage counseling session, then do it. Lance the boil, so to speak, and let the wound drain. You are calling her relatives and wanting to see therapists without her? Just deal with everything out in the open.

How did you marry this woman?

 

[robwar]

Joe,
This came directly from my husband who is a +20 year licensed marriage and family therapist in our state as well as certified licensed social worker. This is what he said:
You do not need both partners in the same session to do marriage therapy. Many times,
I have worked with just one person for the purpose of marriage therapy. It is not accurate at all to need both partners to work on the relationship. Sometimes, you need to see an individual in marriage therapy for them to talk about issues and problems that can’t be brought up with the other there. This happen all the time and is a normal part of the therapy process. If your counselor will not see individually under the inaccurate idea that both need to be there, seek out another qualified and licensed marriage and family therapist with
aamft.org for references. Many times there is only one partner in therapy that is willing to work, sometimes you DO need to see one or both individually. With a qualified therapist,
this does not make the therapist take sides but help the couple work together to save the marriage which is the purpose. If someone does not believe this is true, they are not a qualified therapist. Again this came directly from my DH and that is his recommendation to you JOE.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Joe,
This came directly from my husband who is a +20 year licensed marriage and family therapist in our state as well as certified licensed social worker. This is what he said:
You do not need both partners in the same session to do marriage therapy. Many times,
I have worked with just one person for the purpose of marriage therapy. It is not accurate at all to need both partners to work on the relationship. Sometimes, you need to see an individual in marriage therapy for them to talk about issues and problems that can’t be brought up with the other there. This happen all the time and is a normal part of the therapy process. If your counselor will not see individually under the inaccurate idea that both need to be there, seek out another qualified and licensed marriage and family therapist with
aamft.org for references. Many times there is only one partner in therapy that is willing to work, sometimes you DO need to see one or both individually. With a qualified therapist,
this does not make the therapist take sides but help the couple work together to save the marriage which is the purpose. If someone does not believe this is true, they are not a qualified therapist. Again this came directly from my DH and that is his recommendation to you JOE.

You are still not understanding what he wants to do. They are seeing a counselor together for marriage counseling. He wants to also schedule a session with THE SAME counselor without his wife present, for the purpose of discussing issues he is afraid to bring up with his wife present. Ask your husband if he will do this. I mean, have a separate session or sessions with one of the spouses while also seeing BOTH OF THEM in marriage counseling. It presents a real problem because in the individual session, the counselor is helping the individual and not necessarily the marriage. Do you see what I mean? A spouse could say any number of things about the other person and there would be nothing the therapist could check out - it could be wholesale lies for all he knows. Then he has a problem because when he does the couple sessions, whom does he believe?

This forum member has what appears to be a VERY complex situation with his wife, and he is contacting other family members without her knowledge as well as attempting to contact the marriage counselor behind her back. I still recommend facing the issues head-on in a joint session since they are seeing a counselor together.

 

[robwar]

You are still not understanding what he wants to do. They are seeing a counselor together for marriage counseling. He wants to also schedule a session with THE SAME counselor without his wife present, for the purpose of discussing issues he is afraid to bring up with his wife present. Ask your husband if he will do this. I mean, have a separate session or sessions with one of the spouses while also seeing BOTH OF THEM in marriage counseling. It presents a real problem because in the individual session, the counselor is helping the individual and not necessarily the marriage. Do you see what I mean? A spouse could say any number of things about the other person and there would be nothing the therapist could check out - it could be wholesale lies for all he knows. Then he has a problem because when he does the couple sessions, whom does he believe?

This forum member has what appears to be a VERY complex situation with his wife, and he is contacting other family members without her knowledge as well as attempting to contact the marriage counselor behind her back. I still recommend facing the issues head-on in a joint session since they are seeing a counselor together.

No, you don’t understand and this is directly from my DH, YES, there is absolutely nothing wrong with his request and DH WOULD see him separately and there IS NO conflict of interest at all, The relationship built on trust with each client in the marriage tx is direct between the patient and the therapist. The therapist models for the client the respectful appropriate relationship that they are missing. The therapist likewise offers for the wife the exact same opportunity to discuss individually marital issues which frequently are only available for uncovering within a solo session. The dynamics of this goes so far beyond what you can understand in an layman’s forum that it’s not reasonable to think the particulars of alliances, trust, transference and countertransference can even be understood by non practitioners. In summary, to understand, the inferences to triangulation and what is and is not appropriate in effective marital work only comes with depth of experience and skill not available to persons in non-therapeutic fields. Also directly from my DH, he would no longer discuss this thread of misinformation coming from non-trained uninformed do gooders because it does more harm than good and perpetuates faulty impressions and stereotypes of good relationship therapy. It can even cause persons who maybe helped to have misunderstanding and stereotypes of work that truly may benefit them but they fear the unhealthy impressions that has been given on this thread like this. It truly could cause some who could be reached NOT to make a choice to seek help.
The advise and implication you have can do MORE harm than good that as someone who have dedicated my life and work to family and marital therapy, you don’t know what you are talking about. from DH with 20+ years of experience in this area.

 

[joe_1976]

So one of the things I wish to bring up is the following… My wife is upset and we talked this is counseling, I did not support her in seeing her brother and kids without my wife’s parents being present. The reason why is because my sister-in-law told me her brother is afraid of my wife for the well being and safety of the kids. The sister-in-law told me this freely and openly(at thanksgiving dinner). So when my wife says at consoling, I did not support her seeing her brother and family for a Christmas visit, only on my wife terms. The brother wants to see her, just until they can see my wife behave properly(outburst of anger, name calling). I should be honest and say in-front of my wife and therapist, her brother is afraid of you, he wants to see you, but only if your parents are present. It’s a pretty sad and horrible thing, and wife could need counseling just because of a comment like that.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

So one of the things I wish to bring up is the following… My wife is upset and we talked this is counseling, I did not support her in seeing her brother and kids without my wife’s parents being present. The reason why is because my sister-in-law told me her brother is afraid of my wife for the well being and safety of the kids. The sister-in-law told me this freely and openly(at thanksgiving dinner). So when my wife says at consoling, I did not support her seeing her brother and family for a Christmas visit, only on my wife terms. The brother wants to see her, just until they can see my wife behave properly(outburst of anger, name calling). I should be honest and say in-front of my wife and therapist, her brother is afraid of you, he wants to see you, but only if your parents are present. It’s a pretty sad and horrible thing, and wife could need counseling just because of a comment like that.

OP, I do not want to discourage you from seeking help. If you think it would help your marriage to see the counselor yourself, outside of your marriage session, then request that appointment. If you feel the counselor is not listening to your concerns, then find another counselor. Your situation seems difficult and it is not for me to decide what is best for you. I speak out of my own experience but your situation, even though there is a bit of a language translation problem, seems an order of magnitude more complicated and difficult. You need more help than we can provide.

I’ll add you to my prayers.

 

[joe_1976]

Thanks Juliane…I know we need a lot of help… My personal counselor( I am have one ), has the point of view as robwar’s… my counselor referred us referred us to someone, who also did their marriage counseling this way… a joint session, 2 individual sessions(one each partner), then joints the rest of the time. My wife hated our first marriage consular, but referred a individual consular to my wife, whom referred us to this consular.

So currently 4 consular are already involved… .mine in a private practice and 3 more second practice (both marriage counselors and my wife’s). FYI, the first marriage consular called my wife crazy and told me to divorce. This has all happened in the past 3 months.

My consular is employed my several catholic parishes in my area as well as having there own practice.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks Juliane…I know we need a lot of help… My personal counselor( I am have one ), has the point of view as robwar’s… my counselor referred us referred us to someone, who also did their marriage counseling this way… a joint session, 2 individual sessions(one each partner), then joints the rest of the time. My wife hated our first marriage consular, but referred a individual consular to my wife, whom referred us to this consular.

So currently 4 consular are already involved… .mine in a private practice and 3 more second practice (both marriage counselors and my wife’s). FYI, the first marriage consular called my wife crazy and told me to divorce. This has all happened in the past 3 months.

My consular is employed my several catholic parishes in my area as well as having there own practice.

When we first started going to a counselor, he saw each of us separately for half a session. He called us in one at a time, for maybe 20 minutes, and then we met together. We didn’t have any more separate sessions. If the counselor wants to see each of you separately once or twice, and then mainly couple sessions, that would be his or her decision. Where it gets weird is when the counselor sees only one half of the couple and then also does the couple sessions.

So let me get this straight. You are seeing one counselor yourself. Your wife is seeing a different counselor. And you are both seeing a 3rd counselor for marriage counseling? And the 4th one is the one your wife did not like, but you are not seeing that counselor currently, correct?

And you wanted to talk to the couple counselor separately? One thing I might suggest is that you ask your counselor to talk to the couple counselor about your concerns for your wife. If the couples counselor does not want to see you individually, you might ask if your counselor can discuss your concerns with him. That way, he gets the information from another professional. Of course you would have to consent to both of them talking. That might be one way to deal with the situation.

I’m glad you are no longer seeing the counselor who called your wife crazy and advised you to divorce. That’s terribly unprofessional.

 

[joe_1976]

I know that it is the counselors decision, but all I am really looking the same that you even told me that you had yourself. (Half a session for my and half a session for my wife). My goal is not to have the counselor side with me, but I do not wish to hurt my wife. One of the things that I wish to share is that her co-worker called my wife crazy and that we should get divorce. I feel it is important to share to share this because I am more on edge because of the other advice I was given. There are things that have happened in a marriage that we agreed not to ever talk about again (couple mistakes that my wife made). We got past them, but them bet to could\will influence how this will work in the future.

Did you find that half session(one on one) useful when you had it? That is all I really want. If we switch counselors again, that would be our third marriage counselor. I think I would just give up at that point This is really the only grievance I have with the current marriage counselor.

So let me get this straight. You are seeing one counselor yourself. Your wife is seeing a different counselor. And you are both seeing a 3rd counselor for marriage counseling? And the 4th one is the one your wife did not like, but you are not seeing that counselor currently, correct?
You are just about correct, but the 3rd and 4th are switched.