Marriage: covenant or contract.

[Reuben_J]

if you didn’t know yet what is the position of temporary marriage in islam then read in these links

islamawareness.net/Marriage/Mutah/

as for divorce it’s allowed in islam and not allowed in you beliefs

should the thread talking about the divorce then , and make it more simple discussion !

Temporary marriage in Islam has been brought up here in CAF countless of times and it is being practiced by Muslims. If it scandalize you, it’s not my fault. You can apologize for it but you cannot deny it.

Since the OP is talking about contract and covenant and you seem to want to know what it means - I just give my piece. Well, I could be wrong but there is certainly huge difference between a covenant and a contract. Unless your religion says so differently, that I can accept as we can define and understand words differently. So what is that you don’t know? In a covenanted marriage, one don’t divorce.

 

[Reuben_J]

if you didn’t know yet what is the position of temporary marriage in islam then read in these links

islamawareness.net/Marriage/Mutah/

as for divorce it’s allowed in islam and not allowed in you beliefs

should the thread talking about the divorce then , and make it more simple discussion !

Why should you be allowed to dictate the premise and the condition for the discussion in a thread that is not yours? That is a very unreasonable not to mention dishonorable way of discussing. The OP stated clearly his statement and what to be discussed. If you don’t agree with it, say so and defend your contention rather than asking us to go on a wild goose chase. If you want to set your own premise and the scope of the discussion, start your own thread and I am sure other posters will comply.

I will not go as far to say that this is quite common Muslims deviation tactic in avoiding answering topic to be discussed, but by being elusive it will certainly does not help your cause.

 

[elwill]

Temporary marriage in Islam has been brought up here in CAF countless of times and it is being practiced by Muslims. If it scandalize you, it’s not my fault. You can apologize for it but you cannot deny it.

many things not islamic and practiced by some of muslims , i confess

Since the OP is talking about contract and covenant and you seem to want to know what it means - I just give my piece. Well, I could be wrong but there is certainly huge difference between a covenant and a contract. Unless your religion says so differently, that I can accept as we can define and understand words differently. So what is that you don’t know? In a covenanted marriage, one don’t divorce.

thank you very much
is that the only difference between covenant and contract ?
is that the comparison which OP try to make ( divorce issue ) ?
i need the answer from Sam

 

[elwill]

Why should you be allowed to dictate the premise and the condition for the discussion in a thread that is not yours? That is a very unreasonable not to mention dishonorable way of discussing.

The OP stated clearly his statement and what to be discussed. If you don’t agree with it, say so and defend your contention rather than asking us to go on a wild goose chase. If you want to set your own premise and the scope of the discussion, start your own thread and I am sure other posters will comply.

I will not go as far to say that this is quite common Muslims deviation tactic in avoiding answering topic to be discussed, but by being elusive it will certainly does not help your cause.

my apology will be for Sam , if he felt the same about what i wrote

my intensions was just to find common ground to base my openion on it without any misuderstanding
i didn’t say my openion yet , untill now i just try to understand the rational view of the OP

 

[elwill]

That word is more sexual oriented , so it’s inappropriate to translate…
This is a link about that word which points both sides of the story…

in your post # 9 you said that there is no English word to translate that low level word

now you say it’s inapporpriate to translate

this word brother changes according to the context
when arabs used it mentioning wife , then the context of word means to intercourse sexually
when arabs used it with (not married women) then it will mean marriage

when arabs use the same word refering to one’s private part , then it will mean masturbation

it’s not always that the word is more sexual oriented ,
and i will give you my proofs from quran itself

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha nakahtumu almuminati thumma tallaqtumoohunna min qabli an tamassoohunna fama lakum AAalayhinna min AAiddatin taAAtaddoonaha famattiAAoohunna wasarrihoohunna sarahan jameelan

33-49 O you who believe! When you marry believing women,** and then divorce **them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no 'Iddah [divorce prescribed period, see (V.65:4)] have you to count in respect of them. So give them a present, and set them free (i.e. divorce), in a handsome manner.

firstly , the verse here used the same word in the context which mean marriage ( note that it mention the divorce after it )
secondly , the verse mentions the divorce before any sexual intercourse between them .
then how this word is more sexually oriented in this case , Sam

 

[meedo]

That word is more sexual oriented , so it’s inappropriate to translate…
This is a link about that word which points both sides of the story…

I am sorry to say that your ‘’ Modern standard arabic ‘’ is weak. ‘‘Nekah’’ means marriage . ‘‘Wat2’’ means intercourse .’‘Zawaj’’ also means marriage.

I dont comment here much … but this thread showed your weakness.

 

[viveret]

In the West generally, marriage is a contract between the two partners, but a covenant with God.
A covenant is an agreement in which one party is more powerful than the other.
A contract is an agreement among equals.

 

[SunnaB16]

sorry but i cant see how this can be monotheism,i just cant

Notice that i said “Father” with an upper case “F”, and “mother” with a lower case "m’.
Please dont get the idea that im inferring that Mary is a goddess. She`s a creature like the rest of us, but because (among other things) she bore our Lord in her womb, she is “blessed among women”: Luke 1:42. Islam, itself, regards her as being special, as you know.

A covenant is a sacred family bond; and is much more profound than a contract.
The Church is a family:
God the Father is the first Person of The Blessed Trinity,.
An alternative way of describing Him is that He is the Generating Principle within the Godhead.
Biologically, a father is the generating principle who triggers conception.

The Son is the Fathers Self-knowledge. The Father generates the Son in eternity. The Holy Spirit is the TOTAL Self-giving Love between Father and Son. So. were talking about ONE GOD Who consists of three Persons or Principles.
Keep in mind that the word “Person” as applied to God has a different meaning from “person” when applied to ourselves. We just don`t have adequate words.

No family is complete without a mother; so we look to Mary as our HEAVENLY/SPIRITUAL mother who loves us like no earthly mother could, and intercedes (PRAYS) for us. Remember: she`s a saint…in Heaven.
Of course, we know that she plays no part in our creation.

True marriage and family life are a reflection of the inner Life of God.
The total self-giving love between husband and wife brings forth children.
We dont use sexual imagery to describe God; its the other way around.

It would take many pages to even scrape the surface of the Doctrine of The Blessed Trinity, so i better leave it at that. Its an awesome Truth. And its Infinite. Feel free to PM.

Sorry: way of topic; but hopefully, it was justified under the circumstances.

 

[Reuben_J]

thank you very much
is that the only difference between covenant and contract ?
is that the comparison which OP try to make ( divorce issue ) ?

If you are a beginner the simplified analogy may help.

In the Biblical context, a covenant is made between God and man. Example - a covenant between God and Abraham, in which God made a covenant with Abraham that He would bless Abraham’s descendants making them more numerous than the stars.

In Christian marriage, you would have divine element in it, not just between the two human partners. Essentially, one should not break it without the assent from God. And since God does not allow divorce, it is a good example for criteria in a marriage.

i need the answer from Sam

Sure, Sam will get back to you but this is a public forum and posters can participate on general topic of interest. If we are not being personal about it, we can always discuss on it objectively.

 

[Sam_777]

my apology will be for Sam , if he felt the same about what i wrote

my intensions was just to find common ground to base my openion on it without any misuderstanding
i didn’t say my openion yet , untill now i just try to understand the rational view of the OP

It’s okay **elwill ** you don’t have to apologies for anything, but as Reuben J mentioned, my thread for covenant vs contract only, and to answer your question, my view that Christianity made marriage more heavenly by making it a covenant, and I Islam made marriage more earthy by making it a contract…

And as for the word “Nikah”, as long as someone can not say it when asking for the bride’s hand then I consider it to be a low level word as explained in this link.

 

[elwill]

It’s okay **elwill ** you don’t have to apologies for anything, but as Reuben J mentioned, my thread for covenant vs contract only, and to answer your question, my view that Christianity made marriage more heavenly by making it a covenant, and I Islam made marriage more earthy by making it a contract…

And as for the word “Nikah”, as long as someone can not say it when asking for the bride’s hand then I consider it to be a low level word as explained in this link.

please be patient with me Sam
the only difference between covenant and contract is the divorce issue (that was my conclusion from this discussion ) , is that true ?
if yes , then can i say that
your view is that Christianity made marriage more heavenly by** making it without divorce **, and I Islam made marriage more earthy by **allow the divorce **?

 

[Reuben_J]

please be patient with me Sam
the only difference between covenant and contract is the divorce issue (that was my conclusion from this discussion ) , is that true ?
if yes , then can i say that
your view is that Christianity made marriage more heavenly by** making it without divorce **, and I Islam made marriage more earthy by **allow the divorce **?

Forget about the divorce issue Elwill if it riles you so much. It is just an example of the covenant; even if God allows divorce it is still a covenant marriage because God is involved in such marriage. The important point is that married couple cannot do as they like without taking the other ‘partner’ (God) or the Lord of their marriage as in this case, into consideration. There are many aspects of the covenant of marriage and no divorce is just one of them since it is clear that it is not man that joins a man and a woman in marriage but God; and thus man cannot separate what God joins together.

You may want to tell under what circumstances a divorce is allowed in Islam.

I suggest you study the background of covenant in the Bible – it is just a word but it is Biblical. If you do not believe in the Bible and interpret it differently than us then obviously you also do not believe in what we mean by covenant. Contract and covenant is different as stated and it’s quite clear.

So your stand is that a marriage is a contract then. No problem because we are not arguing that you might be wrong – the point is that our belief cannot be from the same God since it is totally oppose to each other.

 

[Sam_777]

please be patient with me Sam
the only difference between covenant and contract is the divorce issue (that was my conclusion from this discussion ) , is that true ?
if yes , then can i say that
your view is that Christianity made marriage more heavenly by** making it without divorce **, and I Islam made marriage more earthy by **allow the divorce **?

Divorce is the major factor, but also these contribute:

• Dowry (Mahr): nothing in the covenant, while a must in the contract.
• Inheritance: in Christianity two fleshes become one, so as their inheritance, in Islam you know it’s a very complicated calculation because it’s contract based.
• Cheating on the mate: when you know that it’s a contract (i.e., earthy one) it would be easier for someone to cheat on his/her partner versus a covenant (i.e., heavenly one) where GOD involved in the covenant.
• Treating of the partner: when it’s a covenant, the husband/wife will always fear GOD’s wrath because he/she knows the involvement of GOD.
• Marriage for sex or love: in a covenant relation I see and feel it’s mainly love based, while in the contract relation it’s mainly sex based.

 

[elwill]

Forget about the divorce issue Elwill if it riles you so much. It is just an example of the covenant; even if God allows divorce it is still a covenant marriage because God is involved in such marriage. The important point is that married couple cannot do as they like without taking the other ‘partner’ (God) or the Lord of their marriage as in this case, into consideration. There are many aspects of the covenant of marriage and no divorce is just one of them since it is clear that it is not man that joins a man and a woman in marriage but God; and thus man cannot separate what God joins together.

how it differ than marriage in islam ?
are you wanna to say that allah commands not involved in islamic marriage ?

I suggest you study the background of covenant in the Bible – it is just a word but it is Biblical. If you do not believe in the Bible and interpret it differently than us then obviously you also do not believe in what we mean by covenant. Contract and covenant is different as stated and it’s quite clear.

actually i made this discussion to understand the view for " contract" or “covenant” concepts , be it biblical view or islamic view or your own view , i will rely on whatever view you considered . just clear it out for me

So your stand is that a marriage is a contract then. No problem because we are not arguing that you might be wrong – the point is that our belief cannot be from the same God since it is totally oppose to each other.

what i think is that marriage is both contract and covenant in the same time and in both relegions .
that’s why i needed to know what is the difference between both of them in your view .

 

[elwill]

Divorce is the major factor, but also these contribute:

• Dowry (Mahr): nothing in the covenant, while a must in the contract.

one of the companions of the prophet married with Mahr of memorizing little chapters from quran . ( he was poor to give her money )
the Mahr can be 0.25 dollar as well

• Inheritance: in Christianity two fleshes become one, so as their inheritance, in Islam you know it’s a very complicated calculation because it’s contract based.

out of marriage , is theire inheritance system in biblical teaching in the first place where the couple are exculded as one flesh (because of thier covenant offcourse )

• Cheating on the mate: when you know that it’s a contract (i.e., earthy one) it would be easier for someone to cheat on his/her partner versus a covenant (i.e., heavenly one) where GOD involved in the covenant.

your answers Sam show me that the type of marraige can be contract or covenant based on one’s deeds , not based on one’s relegion

• Treating of the partner: when it’s a covenant, the husband/wife will always fear GOD’s wrath because he/she knows the involvement of GOD.

is this issue not exist in islamic marraige ?

• Marriage for sex or love: in a covenant relation I see and feel it’s mainly love based, while in the contract relation it’s mainly sex based.

and what is the islamic marraige based on ?

 

[Scaun]

One interesting point. Covenants, in biblical terms, are sealed with blood. It is shown both in the Old and New Testament. The fact that marriage is a covenant is shown “on the first night”. Ideally the woman is a virgin and the man is ‘pure’. When the girl bleeds … well, that blood, if we see it as an ideal marriage, and if we see marriage as a covenant, is the blood which seals the covenant.

Did you ever think about it? It actually makes sense. Our relationship with God is seen as marriage. In fact He gave us marriage to be an image of our relationship with Him. Our relationship with Him is actually a covenant. This covenant is sealed with blood, Jesus’ blood in our case and some animal’s blood in the Old Covenant. Now since marriage is a replica of our relationship with Him it is reasonable to think that it should also be sealed with blood. The blood which the girl loses on her “night”.

Now of course, this is in the context of an ‘ideal’ marriage, were they didn’t have sex before. Unfortunately, our society now lost this and now it’s ‘old-fashioned’ to not have premarital sex. Too bad. Anyway, here I close this small off-topic note. I really think this is interesting and it gives you something to meditate about.

Have a nice day.

 

[viveret]

In the West generally, marriage is a contract between the two partners, but a covenant with God.
A covenant is an agreement in which one party is more powerful than the other.
A contract is an agreement among equals.

I just want to clarify what I wrote here.
Marriage is both covenant and contract.
Between the partners, it is a contract because humans are equal in power.
Between the partners and God, it is a covenant because God is supreme in power.

 

[elwill]

I just want to clarify what I wrote here.
Marriage is both covenant and contract.
Between the partners, it is a contract because humans are equal in power.
Between the partners and God, it is a covenant because God is supreme in power.

that’s exactly what i believe either
and that’s why i confused when i read the OP

 

[bosnian_muslim]

So bosnian sister, what is your opinion here, if there was that covenant concept in Islam then would you like to be married based on a covenant or based on a contract, in another words, one mate for life or you don’t mind your husband marrying four…

its up to everyone to descide what they can take nothing to do with religion,God gave us the possibility of polygamy ,He didnt say we must be part of it.Plus,a man has many duties to fulfilll before he can marry more then one…i dont know of any man today that has all what it takes…But most of them dont care…they take what they like,leave what they dont like.They take the rights and leave the duties

 

[Reuben_J]

how it differ than marriage in islam ?
are you wanna to say that **allah commands **not involved in islamic marriage ?

Exactly. How is that allah commands (quoting yourself) differs greatly from Christians’ God commands? How is that a Muslim covenanted marriage differs greatly from a Christian marriage.

You haven’t told us under what condition a Muslim husband can divorce his wife. You may want to tell us how a Muslim husband divorce his wife and put it into effect. Then we can see very clearly the differences between Muslim and Christian marriage. I can give you examples but I want you to say them yourself.