Marriage: covenant or contract.

[Reuben_J]

that’s exactly what i believe either
and that’s why i confused when i read the OP

No you do not believe what she believes. Covenant infers everlasting as God is everlasting. Marriage is God’s gift to humans and it should not be broken because God does not want it to be broken. Human contract is changeable because humans change all the time - a point of your agreement.

 

[elwill]

Exactly. How is that allah commands (quoting yourself) differs greatly from Christians’ God commands? How is that a Muslim covenanted marriage differs greatly from a Christian marriage.

You haven’t told us under what condition a Muslim husband can divorce his wife. You may want to tell us how a Muslim husband divorce his wife and put it into effect. Then we can see very clearly the differences between Muslim and Christian marriage. I** can give you examples** but I want you to say them yourself.

give me your example

 

[Reuben_J]

give me your example

I am not a Muslim. I ask you being a Muslim, about Muslim issue. I can tell you but it is not quite right since I have you to tell me. Consider it a privilege, if you like. I was doing the asking; you should answer if you want to. What I am sure, which is pretty obvious, there’s hell of a difference between the two marriages.

If you ask anything about Christian issue, and if I know it, I will answer you. Deal?

 

[elwill]

I am not a Muslim. I ask you being a Muslim, about Muslim issue. I can tell you but it is not quite right since I have you to tell me. Consider it a privilege, if you like. I was doing the asking; you should answer if you want to. What I am sure, which is pretty obvious, there’s hell of a difference between the two marriages.

If you ask anything about Christian issue, and if I know it, I will answer you. Deal?

you can read about divorce in islam by this link
[islamweb.net/ema(name removed by moderator)age/index.php?page=articles&id=92752](http://www.islamweb.net/ema(name removed by moderator)age/index.php?page=articles&id=92752)

 

[FaithJoy]

I don’t understand why we are so confused. Covenant is between God and man which makes something sacred. A contract is between man and man. Man is not perfect, contract makes it possible to break it at a convenience.
Covenant demands honesty with God, a contract doesn’t.
How hard is that?

 

[Reuben_J]

I don’t understand why we are so confused. Covenant is between God and man which makes something sacred. A contract is between man and man. Man is not perfect, contract makes it possible to break it at a convenience.
Covenant demands honesty with God, a contract doesn’t.
How hard is that?

Probably you have not dialogued too often with Muslims, sis. One or two would come to a Christian forum and you have to deal with them delicately in order not to chase them away. There is some questions that they do not have any answer to but quite often Islam is not a religion that’s subjected to be questioned, especially hard questions. Muslims sometimes just obey, not to question.

The explanation of Covenant Vs Contract is very clear which Elwill most probably have easily understood. He is using a wait and see tactic and pounce on your mistake should you make a slip in your statement. Be as it may, sometimes you have to go along with them even if it can exasperate you sometimes.

Of course there is such thing as covenant in Islam but it’s not quite the same as we have in the Bible. What he is trying to tell you – ‘oh yeah, we have covenant too and if you say marriage is a covenant, that too apply to us’.

The way Islamic marriage goes; it is as if it can be broken according to the man’s whim and fancy. A husband needs only to say ‘I divorce you’ with a specific word three times, and lo and behold he divorces his wife legally. And this will shock you – should they intend to remarry, perhaps the husband had pronounced the divorce decree in anger and now realize that they need to be married after all, the wife must first of all, have sexual intercourse with another man other than her husband to be able to remarry back again.

And their marriage can be dissolved under many circumstances which Elwill is quite shy to tell us. That’s certainly differs from Christian marriage definitely – thus the OP contention.

Did I use the word ‘hell’? Well, our God would never make such a decree on marriage.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

And their marriage can be dissolved under many circumstances which Elwill is quite shy to tell us. That’s certainly differs from Christian marriage definitely – thus the OP contention.

christianity doesnt allow divorce,islam allows divorce…still divorce in christian world is hundred time more usuall then in muslim world…something must be wrong

 

[FaithJoy]

So, the main question is,do Muslims call a marriage a contract? What does it say in the Koran? Verse plz?

 

[Reuben_J]

christianity doesnt allow divorce,islam allows divorce…still divorce in christian world is hundred time more usuall then in muslim world…something must be wrong

I know very well this line of argument from Muslims - it is not from God because Christians unable to follow it.

Islamic marriage is based on practicality, one which caters to the desire of man. If you lust for another woman, well marry her. If she cannot bear your a child, get another who can. If she does not obey you, hit her or abstain from having sex with her.

Our God tells us that as high is the sky and so is my way (God) is different from your (human) way. God’s way is not easy to follow but it can be done by His grace. As a Muslim you probably do not understand what ‘grace’ is so that make understanding difficult in this discussion.

 

[elwill]

I don’t understand why we are so confused. Covenant is between God and man which makes something sacred. A contract is between man and man. Man is not perfect, contract makes it possible to break it at a convenience.
Covenant demands honesty with God, a contract doesn’t.
How hard is that?

 

[rinnie]

it will lead me to ask you another question
what is the contract and what is the convenant ?

seems to me from your words that convenant means marry one while contract means marry more than one !
is that correct definations for these words ?

is that mean that as long as muslims marrys one then his marriage based on convenant , and once he marry the second wife , his marriage will be based on contract !

exuse me for my misunderstanding , i’m very confused

I don’t think so elwill. In the Catholic faith when 2 souls unite they become One. They are 2 people who should give up half of eachother to unite themself with the other. And by doing this they are also becoming one with Christ. In the Catholic marriage it is about 3 people. Husband, wife and Christ. It is a union of 3.

In the muslim marriage the husband and wife are not equal. The women have no say. They are not equal partners. That is the big difference. To us taking another is adultery. I know you guys do not see it that way but we do.

Marriage is not a contract. A contract is a written piece of paper. A covenant is not a contract. A covenant has the seal of God on it. It is an agreement betweem 2 people and God. That is why it is called a Sacrament.

An outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. A covenant is Sacred, a contract is not. Contracts can be broken, or expire, or void. A true marriage is not to be broken, or expire or be void. They are to last until death. Unfortunately in this country we got away from this somehow. Many of us our lost, and need to re-establish ourself in Christ again.

 

[rinnie]

christianity doesnt allow divorce,islam allows divorce…still divorce in christian world is hundred time more usuall then in muslim world…something must be wrong

You are very very right. But it is not with Gods law it is with Mans law. Like anything else when Man tries to take over Gods law all hell breaks loose.

But you must realize bosnian we are not living Christian world anymore, its mans world. And that is the big problem.

Is is not God who failed, as usual it is Man. But we have the Church to save us. And we must go back to the Church before its too late. We must go back to Prayer and the Church before things will change.

And as sad as it is, many Christian Church’s do allow divorce. I do not understand that either.

So as you can see the problem is not that divorce is not granted in many Christian Church’s, maybe the problem is that it IS granted!!

 

[rinnie]

I don’t understand why we are so confused. Covenant is between God and man which makes something sacred. A contract is between man and man. Man is not perfect, contract makes it possible to break it at a convenience.
Covenant demands honesty with God, a contract doesn’t.
How hard is that?

I do understand what she is saying faithjoy and she is unfortunately right. How can we break a covenant with God in marriage. We Can’t! She found a big flaw in the Christian faith. And she is right. Many call themself Christians but refuse to obey Gods word.

 

[elwill]

The explanation of Covenant Vs Contract is very clear which Elwill most probably have easily understood. He is using a wait and see tactic and pounce on your mistake should you make a slip in your statement. Be as it may, sometimes you have to go along with them even if it can exasperate you sometimes.

Of course there is such thing as covenant in Islam but it’s not quite the same as we have in the Bible. What he is trying to tell you – ‘oh yeah, we have covenant too and if you say marriage is a covenant, that too apply to us’.

wow , you reading my mind

And their marriage can be dissolved under many circumstances which Elwill is quite shy to tell us. That’s certainly differs from Christian marriage definitely – thus the OP contention.

put me in embarrassing situation then , if you think that i shy from my relegion
come’on i really want to know these circumestances which you think i’m quite shy from it

you asked me about divorce and i give you islamic site which describe you in details the islamic divorce , where is the shyness then , and where is you comment for the site i providid to you ?

 

[elwill]

I don’t think so elwill. In the Catholic faith when 2 souls unite they become One. They are 2 people who should give up half of eachother to unite themself with the other. And by doing this they are also becoming one with Christ. In the Catholic marriage it is about 3 people. Husband, wife and Christ. It is a union of 3.

In the muslim marriage the husband and wife are not equal. The women have no say. They are not equal partners. That is the big difference. To us taking another is adultery. I know you guys do not see it that way but we do.

Marriage is not a contract. A contract is a written piece of paper. A covenant is not a contract. A covenant has the seal of God on it. It is an agreement betweem 2 people and God. That is why it is called a Sacrament.

An outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. A covenant is Sacred, a contract is not. Contracts can be broken, or expire, or void. A true marriage is not to be broken, or expire or be void. They are to last until death. Unfortunately in this country we got away from this somehow. Many of us our lost, and need to re-establish ourself in Christ again.

you said that marriage isn’t a contract , a contract is a written piece of paper

don’t christians have a piece of paper which proof thier marriage ?

you said that contract can be broken , i’m sure that covenant can be broken either . once you cheat your mate , you broke your covenant

 

[FaithJoy]

christianity doesnt allow divorce,islam allows divorce…still divorce in christian world is hundred time more usuall then in muslim world…something must be wrong

Wrong …God frowns on divorce. It is not that Chistianity allows or disallows but God still hates divorce. The only reason Islam may have less divorces is because if a man in Islam is tired of listening to a women or tired of the sex,all he has to do is throw that woman in the corner with a dog or goat and marry another but stay married to the same women.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Wrong …God frowns on divorce. It is not that Chistianity allows or disallows but God still hates divorce. The only reason Islam may have less divorces is because if a man in Islam is tired of listening to a women or tired of the sex,all he has to do is throw that woman in the corner with a dog or goat and marry another but stay married to the same women.

how many muslims do you know?? most people that i know are muslim,and i still havent met even ONE that has more then one wife,so its bs what you say

Divorce is a normal thing,sometimes people just cant live togheter…and then its ok to get a divorce!

 

[Reuben_J]

wow , you reading my mind

put me in embarrassing situation then , if you think that i shy from my relegion
come’on i really want to know these circumestances which you think i’m quite shy from it

you asked me about divorce and i give you islamic site which describe you in details the islamic divorce , where is the shyness then , and where is you comment for the site i providid to you ?

Thanks Elwill for the site. I am glad you are not shy to show us your Islamic believe. At least it is better than nothing.

Unfortunately my computer cannot open it, that’s why it takes so long for my response. Would you mind etxract some important points and paste it on your post so that we can scrutinize it?

I have given you examples after all but alas I am not a Muslim, you see. So I could be very well very wrong. I don’t know. You might want to comment on them, if you like. Like you are allowed to hit your wife; like marrying another woman if your wife cannot bear you a child; like depriving your wife from sex if you want to punish her for disobedience while you can still have full supply of sex from your other three wives and like you can just utter a specific word to pronounce divorce and that’s all it take to divorce her.

Regards.

 

[trdchubi]

In Islam it’s literally a contract with all what an earthy contract means, while in Christianity it’s a covenant with all what a heavenly covenant means.

Why that much difference if they were truly from the same GOD?

Maybe the idea started from a “worldly” messenger teaching a worldly god allowing worldly marriage contracts for worldly men to consume.

 

[trdchubi]

Contract and covenant is different as stated and it’s quite clear.

Wish I could point that out to my previous landlady, she has that inept ability to interchange them to make it sound legally good on paper.