Marriage Dilemma – Catholic and LDS

[RebeccaJ]

This is exactly how I feel. Its always what she wants and what’s important to her. It’s never, Paul what is important to you, what do you want? If I would to tell her the importance of me having the baby baptized, or having my marriage convalidated in the CC or even me wanting to take me son to church with me and us switching every other Sunday, she would tell me that she has already sacraficed so much and that I always get what I want, because she has to just give in. If that was true, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on this thread.

PaulP, I am in a mixed marriage, though, my husband is atheist, and our one daughter is an adult.

I converted from atheism. Before I told my husband that I was going to “find God”. A good friend of mine said to me, if my husband were stop me then the real danger to our relationship would be feelings of resentment.

It sounds like you are both feeling resentful. The question is what to do about those feelings.

Deep breath. And think on a better direction. One that is based on love and forgiveness rather than resentment.

I know this is a really personal question, and you don’t have to answer it. But have you asked your wife to forgive you for not going through with your intentions to marry in a LDS temple? I know it sounds contradictory, because you are following God’s will. But to her, it is a very, very real problem. She needs to forgive you. If she cannot, then you need to know why.

 

[paulp1002]

I know this is a really personal question, and you don’t have to answer it. But have you asked your wife to forgive you for not going through with your intentions to marry in a LDS temple? I know it sounds contradictory, because you are following God’s will. But to her, it is a very, very real. She needs to forgive you. If she cannot, then you need to know why.

I have asked for her forgiveness and I have apologized numerous times. I have even told her that if her that if I could be sealed to her in her temple, without having to give up my beliefs I would. (You know like the Catholic church. But unfortunately her church doesn’t believe in the freedom of religion or believe that you don’t have to be Mormon to be worthy or rightous person. But that is for another thread.) She doesn’t accept my apology, because it still doesn’t give her what she wants.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have asked for her forgiveness and I have apologized numerous times. I have even told her that if her that if I could be sealed to her in her temple, without having to give up my beliefs I would. (You know like the Catholic church. But unfortunately her church doesn’t believe in the freedom of religion or believe that you don’t have to be Mormon to be worthy or rightous person. But that is for another thread.) She doesn’t accept my apology, because it still doesn’t give her what she wants.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with getting what you want. Ask her why she can’t forgive you.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD, there are two different bishops. The first bishop was regarding temple sealings. He told her that although he would not suggest that we should divorce. He did tell her that she should not sacrafice God’s commandment for a temple sealing and eternal salvation and that she could find a man that could. Please show me in the bible, where you must have a temple sealing in order to have eternal salvation. The second bishop, who replaced the first told her that she should not marry me in the CC, if she is seeking her endowments.

Paulp1002,
I had understood that there were two different bishops involved. I underlined an important statement you said one said. If he also said that she would someday be able to have a temple sealing and she “could find a man that could”, then it sounds like he was talking very long-term since he had said not to divorce.

By “eternal salvation” the bishop would be meaning “exaltation in the Celestial kingdom”. “Exaltation” means to be with God but also to be like God or in other words, to inherit all that the Father has, through the merits and grace of His Beloved Only Begotten Son who has the power to overcome the effects of the fall and overcome the law of justice and fulfill the law of mercy. To be like God means to be a bringer of more abundant life to other spirits, and that can only be done by human beings through making and keeping the kind of marriage covenant that Adam and Eve had and that Christ taught was “from the beginning” where God did the joining and the couple regarded those covenants with God and with each other as eternally binding covenants.

I have had several long conversations with others about this topic of an eternal marriage covenant. If you want me to point them out, I will, but otherwise you can look them up either using the general index or by clicking on my name and seeing all my posts from the past.

Hey–you have some tough circumstances in this situation. I still think that if your church would abide by the teachings of Paul on the subject of a mixed religion marriage, you would not have to have the kind of discussion you are facing. All the best to you in seeking to be mutually supportive, mutually understanding, and allow free will and choice to be a foremost consideration.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hey–you have some tough circumstances in this situation. I still think that if your church would abide by the teachings of Paul on the subject of a mixed religion marriage, you would not have to have the kind of discussion you are facing. All the best to you in seeking to be mutually supportive, mutually understanding, and allow free will and choice to be a foremost consideration.

Perhaps you didn’t notice that the sticking point is mormon marriage.

 

[Ceeboo]

Please help, what should I do? .

Hi paulp,

First, I was truly saddened to read your OP and I can’t imagine the strain that clearly must be on BOTH of you during this most difficult/confusing time.

If I may offer my bias opinion.

If there was ever a time where you and your bride should/need to unite and stand as one, it is indeed now.

Although there are clearly a lot of hurdles and it can be very difficult at times, it is possible to have a very loving, rewarding, and God centered inter-faith marriage.

No matter where your journey takes you, I would suggest that you take it together and be still in God.

God bless and peace,
Ceeboo

 

[ParkerD]

RebeccaJ,
On the contrary, the sticking points that I have seen expressed are as follows from the perspective of the one who started this thread with questions:

…Although I was raised in a Catholic household; my brother and I only went to church for weddings, funerals, and holidays, therefore I never made my Communion. Her family went to church every Sunday…

I eventually told my wife that I felt that this whole experience brought me closer to my Catholic faith. At first she accepted this change. I later found out from my Godfather that I could not make my Communion until we were married in the Catholic Church… Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

A core issue is the issue that “she can’t give me mine” in terms of spiritual needs he has, because he can’t “make my Communion until married in the Catholic Church.”

This is contrary to Paul’s teachings. That is what I had noted. That is what I meant.

 

[RebeccaJ]

RebeccaJ,
On the contrary, the sticking points that I have seen expressed are as follows from the perspective of the one who started this thread with questions:

A core issue is the issue that “she can’t give me mine” in terms of spiritual needs he has, because he can’t “make my Communion until married in the Catholic Church.”

This is contrary to Paul’s teachings. That is what I had noted. That is what I meant.

So, your solution is to change the Catholic Church? Very practical and in a realm of reality. Not.

Maybe tell your LDS church to stop brainwashing people with the idea that marriage is required for exaltation. It is contrary to the teachings of Jesus. He is the Way, not marriage.

Catholics hold to the teachings as Paul. No one says we do not. That is your erroneous made up BS. Just another mormon needly needly voice which is obvious has not been helpful at all.

Would LDS confirm someone who is not following the word of wisdom, or who is in a state of sin and has not repented?

This is the issue that the OP is trying to resolve. Which has nothing to do with Paul’s teaching.

 

[RebeccaJ]

As to a Catholic marriage ceremony, I would respond that when she agreed to marry you she did not agree to do so in a Catholic marriage ceremony. I have been told by a Catholic who presented themselves as a knowledgeable Catholic, that marriage is between the man and the woman in the Catholic church, and God is also involved in such a marriage. This would mean that the woman needs to have her “heart” in it if she is going to be married in a ceremony in the Catholic church. It should not be for “show”. It should be from the “heart.” If her heart was not going to be in it, then to go through with a ceremony would be to be in the very uncomfortable position of not having her heart with her words or with her actions in that ceremony, which means she would be acting against conscience (her own personal conscience, not anyone else’s.)

You are correct, as the marriage would not be valid if one of the person is there by force. However, if a person’s spouse does not have a heart for wedding vows, as that is what the ceremony is, then there are deep issues that need to be resolved.

In other words, I’d say my wedding vows again at any moment. In a church. Out of church. I don’t know why mormons would give her grief for saying what she has already said. It can only be because it is in a Catholic Church. But why does a mormon care? If it is done in a Catholic Church or on the beach, it is all the same to you.

 

[gentle_atheist]

Paul,

It seems to me that when you got baptized into the Mormon Church you committed a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church. You are no longer Catholic. You are Mormon. You then married a Mormon girl who has always been very strong in practicing her Mormon faith and who fully expected that you, her Mormon husband, would grow together with her in the Mormon Church, raise your kids as Mormons, and be one big, happy Mormon family.

Your new-found love of the Catholic Church must have come as quite a surprise to your wife given the fact that you were only nominally Catholic before you decided to become a Mormon. Your wife has every right to feel that she’s been double-crossed. This is not the kind of marriage she bargained for. If she’s smart she will divorce you, get full custody of your son, and get the Mormon husband that she thought she was getting when she married you.

I know that this sounds harsh but you don’t appear to be mature enough to honor the commitments that you have made as an adult.

 

[lax16]

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

This is hard for me to say, but I’m going to do it anyway.
I am married to a non-Catholic (not Mormon though) and there was agreement from the very beginning that our children would be raised Catholic. It has been very difficult and the in-laws made it even worse prior to baptisms, holildays, etc.
The differences in thinking permeate every decision we make, but we are hanging in there going on twenty years.

If there are no children involved, and the priest tells you it is okay to do so, I would leave the marriage. I’m sure your wife is a good and lovely person and you two married thinking you would share the same faith. If she agrees to letting you have your faith and the children being raised Catholic, maybe you can work things out. However, I can’t emphasize enough how much pressure will come from OUTSIDE the marriage once children are involved.

I will relay a story, though I don’t know typical it is, regarding a similar situation. A young couple married at a time when the woman was not practicing her Mormon faith and the man was not Mormon. Two children came along rather quickly and the woman decided she wanted her children to be raised in a religious home. Her LDS bishop counseled her to leave her husband and remarry a Mormon man. When I met her, it was two weeks away from her wedding and she was sharing her story with me and seemed rather happy.

Honestly, I was shocked that she was counseled to leave her husband even though there were very young children involved. She listened to her bishop, divorced her husband, and joined the singles ward for people in her age group. It did not take long for her to find someone to marry.

This story may not be typical, but I would hate to see anyone lose their family down the road in case someone changes their mind or the spouse wants a temple wedding (which, from what I understand, is EXTREMELY important to LDS women).

Maybe you should read some of the threads here on Catholic Answers Forums regarding the differences between Catholics and Mormons. You will notice that there are HUGE differences in the way we view things.

Well, I wish the best to the two of you. It is a very difficult position to be in, but it only gets harder when children are involved.

 

[twopekinguys]

RebeccaJ,
On the contrary, the sticking points that I have seen expressed are as follows from the perspective of the one who started this thread with questions:

A core issue is the issue that “she can’t give me mine” in terms of spiritual needs he has, because he can’t “make my Communion until married in the Catholic Church.”

This is contrary to Paul’s teachings. That is what I had noted. That is what I meant.

Maybe it is you that missed some core issues.

1.She originally agreed.

2She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married.

3.Her mother said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.”

The biggest core issue is that she is denying him the ability to practice his faith , why expecting him to comply with hers. Can you say double standard?

By the way, still waiting on those DNA references you wanted to quote on the other thread.

 

[zaffiroborant]

She also was already married to this man, and it was done without it having been a “Catholic wedding.” I was talking about the original decision to marry. She could change her mind about a subsequent “Catholic marriage” ceremony–she has that right, even if she had said she would do it when initially confronted with the dilemma. In other words, she did not make such a commitment before her original marriage to him.

And he originally married a non endowed woman, no garments, why should she be given a pass to change the original agreement?

 

[paulp1002]

Paul,

It seems to me that when you got baptized into the Mormon Church you committed a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church. You are no longer Catholic. You are Mormon. You then married a Mormon girl who has always been very strong in practicing her Mormon faith and who fully expected that you, her Mormon husband, would grow together with her in the Mormon Church, raise your kids as Mormons, and be one big, happy Mormon family.

Your new-found love of the Catholic Church must have come as quite a surprise to your wife given the fact that you were only nominally Catholic before you decided to become a Mormon. Your wife has every right to feel that she’s been double-crossed. This is not the kind of marriage she bargained for. If she’s smart she will divorce you, get full custody of your son, and get the Mormon husband that she thought she was getting when she married you.

I know that this sounds harsh but you don’t appear to be mature enough to honor the commitments that you have made as an adult.

Well it’s clear that you don’t know much about the Catholic Church. Actually the Catholic Church does not recongize Mormon baptisms because the Mormon church does not believe in the Holy Trinity, the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore I was baptized Catholic and remain Catholic until I die. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

Thanks for assuming things about the situation that you are not aware of. She was not always a devout Mormon girl. Yeah she was raised in a Mormon household, but she herself struggled as a teenager and as a young adult. Her first husband was also Catholic, and she strayed from her church and questioned it’s authority. If he didn’t cheat on her, then there would be a good chance she would still be married to him and she probably would’ve converted to Catholicism. Considering all her past relationships has been with Catholics and not one single Mormon. It was when she moved back close to her family that she started to get involved with her church. During our first year of marriage, she again strayed from her religion. It wasn’t until her family asked her to go to church with them, tell her they didn’t want Catholic grandbabies and until her church started preaching about temple marriages, that she decided to be a devout mormon again. And in the end it was MY fault that she didn’t go to her church, it was MY fault that I didnt encourage her to go to her church. So again, thanks for the assumptions.

Yeah, while your words may have intended to be harsh. I took them as a grain of salt, considering the source.

 

[twopekinguys]

She also was already married to this man, and it was done without it having been a “Catholic wedding.” I was talking about the original decision to marry. She could change her mind about a subsequent “Catholic marriage” ceremony–she has that right, even if she had said she would do it when initially confronted with the dilemma. In other words, she did not make such a commitment obefore her original marriage to him.

So it’s ok for her to change her mind, but not him? Can you say double standard?

I disagree that the bishop was telling her to “dump him”. Bishops he has met with have expressed concerns about her desire to receive her endowment under the conditions expressed by the husband. This does not mean she has to “dump him”. It may mean she has to wait to receive her endowment, but again that is because she will be making eternally binding covenants with God and the bishop of course knows that. (Note that baptism was supposed to have been an eternally binding covenant also, so the track record is not all that good here.)

How can you not see that the Bishop was telling her to get out of the marriage? Seriously, even you can’t see it that way.

Are you suggesting that she should leave for good? Why not give her a break that these are hard issues in her life and she is going through some difficult decision making?

Did I say she should leave for good? Don’t put words in my mouth. Don’t you think these are hard issues for him as well?

Of course. I would also say that He is in any marriage where the couple exchanges vows and has God as a part of their life.

Wasn’t quite what you insinuated now is it?

I was talking about the initial marriage commitment, not a decision she made when confronted with a need her husband had regarding his choice of religion and its requirements. He had made some pretty serious commitments before she chose to marry him. They were not petty.

And you know that how? Seems you seem to be assuming things again.

That case and its circumstances does not match this kind of situation, at all.

Let’s see, inter faith marriage, disagreement about raising a child in a faith, seems like a match to me.

I honestly don’t remember which thread. Is this a question about the DNA of the descendants of Joseph Smith versus the DNA of people who others have said were his descendants, but the DNA didn’t match?

How convenient, not to mention laughable. But I’ll play along, and help you out.
It is the “Why accept Joseph Smith” thread.

What that means as to the question of your Communion is that you already made a choice about marriage, already have a son through having made that choice, already have a wife who evidently loves you, so the position you are now in is one that has followed from choices you have already made. It would seem important and loving to let your wife live by the choices she has already made also with no choice against conscience, and by agreements and understandings you had when you made those first choices and agreed to them. This would not be going against the 11th article of faith. It means the situation you are in (admittedly a predicament and a frustration but perhaps needing to understand that the Holy Spirit can be with you without your having had Communion) has followed from choices you have already made, and the both of you would be following the 11th article of faith while at the same time acknowledging each others’ choices and each others’ conscience and going forward with your differences as best you can work them out.

May the Lord give you peace and I have no question that He will bless your marriage.

 

[zerinus]

From my understanding, the only obligation that she would have, would be to allow me to practice what I believe and to allow me to teach my son my beliefs and that she may not intervene or prevent me from sharing my beliefs to my son. She would not in anyway have to stop sharing her beliefs to our son. This is basically what we have already agreed on.

Then I see absolutely no objections from an LDS point of view to your having your “Catholic” marriage, and she having her temple endowments. Follow the advice I have given, and I assure you that you can have both. The bishop cannot prevent you from doing either.

ParkerD, there are two different bishops. The first bishop was regarding temple sealings. He told her that although he would not suggest that we should divorce. He did tell her that she should not sacrafice God’s commandment for a temple sealing and eternal salvation and that she could find a man that could. Please show me in the bible, where you must have a temple sealing in order to have eternal salvation. The second bishop, who replaced the first told her that she should not marry me in the CC, if she is seeking her endowments.

That doesn’t sound right to me, if what you have told me is accurate. The good news is that no Mormon bishop can prevent either of you from doing what you want! Follow the advice I have given you, and I promise you that you can have both.

 

[zerinus]

This is exactly how I feel. Its always what she wants and what’s important to her. It’s never, Paul what is important to you, what do you want? If I would to tell her the importance of me having the baby baptized, or having my marriage convalidated in the CC or even me wanting to take me son to church with me and us switching every other Sunday, she would tell me that she has already sacraficed so much and that I always get what I want, because she has to just give in. If that was true, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on this thread.

That doesn’t bode well. It appears that your differences are more fundamental than I had imagined.

 

[ParkerD]

The short back story… My wife and I have been married for almost two years. I was raised in a Catholic household and she was raised LDS. Although I was raised in a Catholic household; my brother and I only went to church for weddings, funerals, and holidays, therefore I never made my Communion. Her family went to church every Sunday.

My wife and I met at work, and I knew she was Mormon. I started going to church with her and eventually took the missionary lessons and was “emerged in water.” After several months we agreed to get married with her hopes of being sealed in the temple after my one year. During my first couple months of marriage, and constantly being surrounded by LDS members, I started to realize that the church was based on false doctrine, a false prophet and too many gaps in truth. I eventually told my wife that I felt that this whole experience brought me closer to my Catholic faith. At first she accepted this change. I later found out from my Godfather that I could not make my Communion until we were married in the Catholic Church. She originally agreed. She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married. Her mother said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Of course this had a negative impact on our marriage and she has left and returned several times. We eventually worked out a “solution” and are back together. If you would like more details regarding our marriage and roadblocks) please send me a message.) I have met with my local parish and the Father informed me that the Catholic Church does not recongize the LDS baptism and I do not have to send in a letter of resignation.

My current problem… My wife recently told me that she would like to make or take her endowments. She met with her bishop and one of his concerns is that since I was no longer a practicing Mormon and have returned to my true faith, that it could cause problems within our marriage. I told her that I would meet with him to let him know that I support her and her choices regarding religion. However during my meeting with the Bishop, he told me that he had informed her that he feels that it wouldn’t be right for a woman who is seeking her endowments to marry me in the Catholic Church, no matter what benefits it has for me. This changes a lot. He also told me that in order for her to get her endowments, that I would have to agree and sign my permission no matter if I’m an LDS member or not. I told him that I would support her with her beliefs as long as she supported me in my beliefs. Honestly I find that what both the bishops and her mother said, goes against the LDS teachings of their 11th Article of Faith.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is where I would like some help from the CAF members. I have been struggling with this decision. My wife “should” know how important it is for her to marry me in the Catholic Church, not only to legitimize our marriage in the eyes of our Lord, but also so that I can finally make my Communion. With me having to give my permission for her to have her endowment, puts the ball in my court. Should I give my permission, even though she will not give me what I need spiritually? Or should I play hard ball.

LDS members, I know what the importance of a temple sealing is to Mormons, but there is a huge difference between a Catholic and LDS marriage… She doesn’t have to change what and who she believes in, she can still be Mormon and married to me in the Catholic Church. On the other hand I would have to be Mormon in order to sealed to her. I can honestly say if I could be Catholic and sealed to her in her temple, I would.

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

To Twopekinguys,
This was the original post. The couple was married with an assumption made by the woman about the man she was marrying. They did indeed get married. The bishop was not saying they “shouldn’t get married”–they were already married. I have to assume he was saying the marriage was not what she was going to want in the very long run (eternity). Perhaps he agreed with her if she happened to express regret about her situation since she had assumed her husband was going to be sealed to her in an LDS temple after a year of their civil marriage and after he had kept his baptismal covenants for a year.

The man could certainly change his mind about anything he wants to change his mind about, of course, but a marriage decision for each party to the marriage was based on some commitments and a great deal of expectation of honesty about those commitments. He should have investigated more thoroughly before making a commitment about baptism, then this issue becomes a non-issue. But having made the commitments he made, they will need to work out a compromise and just because he “can’t fulfill his religious desires” (which he should have figured out before getting married in the first place) and especially since he is following a belief that is contrary to what the apostle Paul taught anyway so it has no bearing on his relationship with God anyway, and therefore does not impact what goes on inside his soul–she has every right to follow the teachings of her church and the feelings of her conscience, and can change her mind about what she may have said at one time within their marriage.

 

[zerinus]

I have asked for her forgiveness and I have apologized numerous times. I have even told her that if her that if I could be sealed to her in her temple, without having to give up my beliefs I would. … She doesn’t accept my apology, because it still doesn’t give her what she wants.

Like I said, if your differences are that fundamental, then your marriage might not be workable in the long run.

(You know like the Catholic church. But unfortunately her church doesn’t believe in the freedom of religion or believe that you don’t have to be Mormon to be worthy or rightous person. But that is for another thread.)

That is not a correct description of the Mormon position. Our inability to admit non-Mormons to the temple is not a statement about their righteousness, nor has it anything to do with “freedom of religion”. In the Catholic Church there are certain things that are ecclesiastically impossible. Women cannot be ordained to the priesthood for example. That does not mean that women are less righteous than men, or that the Catholic Church does not have freedom of religion. It is to do with ecclesiastical law, not to do with righteousness or unrighteousness of the individuals concerned.

 

[zerinus]

Hi paulp,

First, I was truly saddened to read your OP and I can’t imagine the strain that clearly must be on BOTH of you during this most difficult/confusing time.

If I may offer my bias opinion.

If there was ever a time where you and your bride should/need to unite and stand as one, it is indeed now.

Although there are clearly a lot of hurdles and it can be very difficult at times, it is possible to have a very loving, rewarding, and God centered inter-faith marriage.

No matter where your journey takes you, I would suggest that you take it together and be still in God.

God bless and peace,
Ceeboo

Good advice from Ceeboo! Good to see you around, and I miss you on the other board.