Marriage dilemma - medical/NFP/health

[PennitentMan]

I wish there were an alternative!

If you are catholic there is none. Good luck.

 

[PeterMuz]

Hi,
I’m wondering if any married couples out there have dealt with a situation(s) in which a competent doctor has determined that pregnancy or future pregnancy would be fatal. I know this is very specific and won’t apply to most people. But for any where it has, how have you handled it? I believe that NFP would be too risky in this situation and abstinence would be the only choice. How would you handle the emotional toll this would place on a young couple?
I’m prone to think that the emotional end would be harder than the physical, though abstinence is certainly not desirable to my knowledge, especially for men.
Any insight would be great…thank you!

I know a woman who cannot have anymore children because of a heart problem. She would probably die if she went into labor. She and her husband practice NFP and have avoided a pregnancy for like 10 years. They have to be conservative, but it makes you cherish the days you have.

 

[PeterMuz]

Thank you for the replies. At this point, I believe that prayer is the best answer. Perhaps God will grant a loss of fertility. I know that for many this is not good, but it could in this case be a blessing.

I know this is truly not a situation a person can understand unless they have been through it. Fortunately, there are few that have suffered such.

The commandment of “Thou shall not kill” resounds. If a couple knows pregnancy will cause death, it seems basic that they could not engage in sex, since sex causes pregnancy and this would cause death.

I wish there were an alternative!

Sex does not cause pregnancy. Conception does. You can have sex without using contraception and not get pregnant.

 

[camerong]

I would trust my life on an very conservative NFP approach. NFP, properly used, can identify at least several days throughout the month in which conception would be a 1 in a million occurrence. Its a pain, no doubt, to only have sex a couple of days a month, but it can be done such that no pregnancy will occur.

You might say that even the best NFP, most strictly followed, results in a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of you dying in childbirth. But contraception results in a 1 in 1 chance of you voluntarily committing a grave sin and separating yourself from Him.

Good luck.

To the agnostic who has posted above–whether a religion is true or not cannot be derived from how easy or hard it is to follow. If Catholicism is true, it matters not one bit how hard it is to follow. I would strive to follow Christ no matter the cost.

 

[rmbrulotte]

From a mental standpoint, one area of great challenge is being able to see God as loving. Taking away having sexual intercourse to a young couple (or couple of any age) seems punitive. This doesn’t radiate with seeing that God cares for us and loves us. How could one of God’s greatest gifts be turned around in such a way to result in such the opposite, death of a spouse? I thinks it’s especially hard since it is a known situation and not something that would be unexpected.

The thing is, is that the sexual intercourse DOES NOT need to be taken away. It is possible to use NFP to confirm ovulation. 4 days past ovulation until the woman gets her period is a completely infertile time. So right from the start, your argument sort of breaks down, given the advances in NFP.

However, I will still try to engage in your premise as if is WERE the case that they could never have sex or the woman would die (which is completely theoretical because a situation like that will never ever occur). Your argument that because the woman could die if she gets pregnant, God is punishing or somehow doesn’t love her is illogical. Some people are highly allergic to certain foods, and could die if they ate them. If I was allergic to peanuts, my life would be over because I wouldn’t be able to eat chocolate peanut butter ice cream (obviously it wouldn’t, I just said that to add some drama and to show my love for chocolate peanut butter ice cream). But just because I couldn’t eat chocolate peanut butter ice cream would not mean that God is punishing me or that his gift of chocolate peanut butter ice cream to the world is really not a gift.

I know that ice cream in no way compares to sexuality but I had to try.

Also, sex isn’t only for creating babies, it is also for uniting spouses. That part of it is not taken away since that couple would be unable to have sex for procreation. It is still one of God’s greatest gifts, even if the woman were to become pregnant and die.

I know that sounds harsh, but think about it this way: there are worse things than death. Spending eternity in hell is one thing that comes to mind. If the woman were to become pregant, a new, unique life is created. I don’t think that is a horrible thing. Of course, a woman dying from a pregnancy would be terrible, but it would never be a punishment or a joke being played by God.

 

[rmbrulotte]

My DH and I have serious reasons to avoid pregnancy as well. We have learned several methods–Billings, STM, and Creighton–but none can accurately identify fertility. I consulted a NPF only doctor for a year or so, but he eventually told me that he could help me. This is not the only cross I bear, so at this point I am in crisis. I am particularly interested in knowing how this extraordinary suffering has effected your relationship with God.

Have you looked in to Marquette? They use an actual fertility monitor that tests the hormones involved with ovulation, lutenizing hormone and estrogen.

You are incorrect in stating that of the methods you stated, none can accurately identify fertility. However, if you mean that they can’t specifially identify the actual minute you ovulate, you are correct. There IS a fertile window. Either you had some poor teachers with very little follow up or you are possibly anovulatory. I highly suggest you contact Marquette and/or the Pope Paul VI Institute for help. You may have a serious hormonal problem that needs to be identified.

My husband and I have used NFP for 8 years, to avoid and achieve. Right now we have very serious reasons to avoid. It is very, very difficult at times, especially when I am in the fertile period. I know how hard it can be to abstain, and am sorry that you have such a difficult cross to bear.

 

[Ron_Conte]

There is a way to use NFP very strictly, so as to have a very slight chance of conception. Such a very strict use of NFP is only moral in grave circumstances. Although there is never absolutely no chance of conception, this very slight risk has a small enough moral weight, and the good of natural marital relations has a large enough moral weight, for marital relations to be moral even though the pregnancy would result in a great risk of death.

Before I describe this method, let me speak to the point of accepting a slight risk of death for the sake of a good act, done with good intentions, and with weighty good consequences. We all take this type of risk. When you drive to the store, there is a slight risk of a serious car accident. When you take a trip by plane, there is a slight risk of a plane crash. When you are treated at a doctor’s office or a hospital, there is a slight risk of an error that could result in death. But we all accept such slight risks of grave consequences because the risk is morally outweighed by the good consequences. Similarly, such a married couple could morally use NFP very strictly, despite the slight risk of pregnancy and grave complication during pregnancy.

The method of NFP with a very slight risk of conception involves determining the day of ovulation, and waiting until two or three days have passed, then the couple can engage in natural marital relations with almost no chance of conception. They must cease from marital relations from the time that the woman begins her next cycle (from the start of bleeding), until two or three days after the next ovulation. It is very rare for a woman to have two ovulations in the same cycle, and the menstruation at the start of the next cycle (and the length of time) prevents any sperm from remaining for the next ovulation. However, this method might not work for a woman with a short cycle, or with a very variable cycle.

My comments above are on the topic of the morality of using NFP in this type of circumstance in general, and are NOT intended as medical advice. Any Catholic married couple in this situation should consult a physician who is qualified and experienced with these types of cases, and who is familiar with NFP.

 

[rmbrulotte]

Before I describe this method, let me speak to the point of accepting a slight risk of death for the sake of a good act, done with good intentions, and with weighty good consequences. We all take this type of risk. When you drive to the store, there is a slight risk of a serious car accident. When you take a trip by plane, there is a slight risk of a plane crash. When you are treated at a doctor’s office or a hospital, there is a slight risk of an error that could result in death. But we all accept such slight risks of grave consequences because the risk is morally outweighed by the good consequences. Similarly, such a married couple could morally use NFP very strictly, despite the slight risk of pregnancy and grave complication during pregnancy.

The method of NFP with a very slight risk of conception involves determining the day of ovulation, and waiting until two or three days have passed, then the couple can engage in natural marital relations with almost no chance of conception. They must cease from marital relations from the time that the woman begins her next cycle (from the start of bleeding), until two or three days after the next ovulation. It is very rare for a woman to have two ovulations in the same cycle, and the menstruation at the start of the next cycle (and the length of time) prevents any sperm from remaining for the next ovulation. However, this method might not work for a woman with a short cycle, or with a very variable cycle…

I like your comparison to that of driving to the store, etc. Sometimes I fear that even as Catholics we embrace the no holds barred, consequence-free attitude towards sexuality without even thinking of it. The thinking is somewhere along the lines that we (meaning society in general, not necessarily Catholics) “should” be able to have sex with absolutely no consequences. Even those who do follow the Church’s teachings regarding chastity within marriage are apt to fall victim to this. Your analogy points out that nothing we do has the possiblity of no negative consequences

Regarding the ovulation thing…even if a woman is watching for ovulation and has confirmed that she indeed has, she should still be watching for the return of fertile-like symptoms. So, even if she were to ovulate again, she would be able to catch it.