Marriage discernment, a conversion and the Pill

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montanaman

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Hey all,

Here’s a whopper I don’t think has been dealt with in the forum. If it has, please direct me to the appropriate thread. It has to do with using birth control for medical reasons, but there’s a bit of a twist here–TWO twists, actually.

First of all, my Protestant girlfriend, who I’ve been with for about a year now, is converting. I’m 31, she’s 27. Long story, but she’s a lifelong fundamentalist and her parents aren’t too fond of me. That doesn’t matter too much, though, because she’s one of very few people in this world I can honestly say is searching for the truth. The grief her family has given her is a small price to pay, in her estimation, to losing her soul because she didn’t follow truth where it led her. So, she’s in RCIA now.

Yesterday I found myself online trying to figure out engagement rings and if I have to sell my truck to get one. I’m not entirely sold on the idea–after all, there’s something to be said for the bachelor life–but girls like her don’t come along very often, and she has turned ME around. So, I’m in the process of discerning for marriage like never before.

She recently detected a lump in her lower stomach. After a couple of doctor’s visits, we found out she has the not-all-uncommon fibroids. I don’t know how uncommon THIS is, but out of the many down there, one is the size of a baseball, one is slightly smaller, and there are several other walnut-sized ones as well. (We actually had a laugh about that–she’s 100 pounds and invisible when she turns sideways. Where ARE they?!?)

The doctor told her that after the surgery, she’ll have to be on birth control to control them. I believe I’ve heard this before, but apparently once you’ve shown a predeliction to fibroids, you’ve got to keep on ABC to keep them at bay.

For reasons I won’t get into now, I’ve decided that I need to make this decision about marriage soon. Now, she knows the Catholic position on ABC. She’s fine with it–even if it does seem a little weird to her right now. However, she doesn’t want to keep going under the knife. If, however, there’s no other medical option but to use ABC or practice heroic virtue until we decided to start having kids (essentially reducting sex to merely the procreative aspect of intercourse), would I be morally obligated to forget about marrying her?

Consequences–it would kill the both of us if this medical problem became an impediment to marriage. My faith would probably be deeply bruised for a long time, though I can’t say I’d leave the Church over it. She, however, is in the very beginning (shaky) stage of converting. Not only could such an impediment break her heart, it might permanently turn her away from the Church.

My head is spinning with this one, so any help medically, spiritually, theologically or “other” would be a great help.

Thanks much,
Christopher
 
First, there may be other treatment options that a non-catholic doctor or not-particularly-faithful catholic doctor hasn’t bothered to learn about. Search the forums with the specific condition she has.

If after competent medical advice has been obtained, it appears that the birth control pill is required to treat her medical condition, you’ve got yourself a pickle. Oh, wait; You knew that!

First of all, double check anything you hear on the internet with a COMPETENT church authority. A priest you know believes in church sexual teaching, probably.

That said, It is my understanding that the church does not condemn medical treatments that use this pill when the goal of said use is unrelated to contraception. However, you will have another problem to deal with. The pill sometimes actually DOES allow ovulation, but when that happens, the uterine wall won’t allow the baby to implant. Basically, that’s an abortion!

I wonder if there is a way in which she could learn to medically determine when ovulation is most likely while taking this medication. Then you could practice abstinance for about a week around that time just like NFPers do.

In this case, the use of the pill is not for contraceptive purposes AND you’ve taken strong precautions against inadvertent abortion. Seems like this would be OK with church teaching to me.

Can she have kids with this condition? You will need to guard against developing a contraceptive mentality. A regular abstinance period where you reflect and pray about whether to have (more) kids would help avoid that pitfall.
 
I think you need to look into other means of dealing with fibroids than surgery. Here are some websites with alternative treatment options:

fibroids.com/uterine-artery-embolization.html

womentowomen.com/SYMfibroidsbleeding.asp?id=1&campaignno=fibroids&adgroup=adgroup1&keywords=fibroid+treatment

energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym/womenssupplements.html

fibrovan.com/

These days a woman doesn’t have to have major surgeries to correct such problems. Your doctor doesn’t know about these other treatments or doesn’t want to recommend them when he thinks the pill is the answer to everything, as he learned at his medical school dominated by the feminist mind set. It can do no harm to look into these other treatments. God bless you, and may you and your lady love have every happiness in the world!
 
Adding the Pope Paul Vi institute to that list of links:

popepaulvi.com/

As for discerning marriage with this woman, can you speak to your priest to help you figure that out and to guide you through this? He’s likely the one who will perform the ceremony so it would be nice to have him part of the solution, making the day even that more special.
 
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YinYangMom:
Adding the Pope Paul Vi institute to that list of links:

popepaulvi.com/

As for discerning marriage with this woman, can you speak to your priest to help you figure that out and to guide you through this? He’s likely the one who will perform the ceremony so it would be nice to have him part of the solution, making the day even that more special.
Crud. That reminds me. I have to settle down with a church. I’ve been church-hopping like the Protestants (but only among conservative Catholic churches.) No matter WHAT happens, I believe you have to be a member of the parish for X amount of time before you can be married there…
 
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montanaman:
Crud. That reminds me. I have to settle down with a church. I’ve been church-hopping like the Protestants (but only among conservative Catholic churches.) No matter WHAT happens, I believe you have to be a member of the parish for X amount of time before you can be married there…
Hubby and I are Foccus advisors for our parish…don’t know if you have a similar program for engaged couples in your area…

Find out what diocese you’re in…go to their website and look at the workshops/seminars on the calendar…that’ll give you an indication of what to expect.

For our couples they meet with the priest (and yes, they or their parents need to be members), and take the FOCCUS inventory. The secretary processes the scores and sends the results to hubby and me.

We then schedule 2 sessions with the couple to go over the questions which indicated discussion would be helpful and to answer any questions or concerns they had about the questions asked in the inventory.

The couple has to attend a Pre-Cana or Engaged Encounter retreat.

They also have to attend a Natural Family Planning seminar.

There’s a final face-to-face interview with the priest and

then they can get married. Usually the couples book the wedding several months in advance and then work in these training sessions while they work on the invitations, meal planning, tuxedo rentals and everything else.

So, yeah, figure out where you two will likely settle down and check out the church in that area…but definitely start with the diocesan website. It’ll tell you what’s required.
 
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YinYangMom:
Hubby and I are Foccus advisors for our parish…don’t know if you have a similar program for engaged couples in your area…

Find out what diocese you’re in…go to their website and look at the workshops/seminars on the calendar…that’ll give you an indication of what to expect.

For our couples they meet with the priest (and yes, they or their parents need to be members), and take the FOCCUS inventory. The secretary processes the scores and sends the results to hubby and me.

We then schedule 2 sessions with the couple to go over the questions which indicated discussion would be helpful and to answer any questions or concerns they had about the questions asked in the inventory.

The couple has to attend a Pre-Cana or Engaged Encounter retreat.

They also have to attend a Natural Family Planning seminar.

There’s a final face-to-face interview with the priest and

then they can get married. Usually the couples book the wedding several months in advance and then work in these training sessions while they work on the invitations, meal planning, tuxedo rentals and everything else.

So, yeah, figure out where you two will likely settle down and check out the church in that area…but definitely start with the diocesan website. It’ll tell you what’s required.
Wow, that’s actually a lot LESS than I expected. I think it’s all great, but we’re not quite there yet. I feel myself sliding in that direction, but this question could be a kink in all that. Am I prepared to struggle through a marriage where sex is extremely limited? How much faith do I have that she’ll always be unerstanding about the Church’s teaching on birth control? Do I believe I could be strong and not take the easy way out–cave-in and use ABC? On that, I have strong doubts.

I’m looking forward to diving into the research about fibroids. How unromantic is that?
 
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montanaman:
Wow, that’s actually a lot LESS than I expected. I think it’s all great, but we’re not quite there yet. I feel myself sliding in that direction, but this question could be a kink in all that. Am I prepared to struggle through a marriage where sex is extremely limited? How much faith do I have that she’ll always be unerstanding about the Church’s teaching on birth control? Do I believe I could be strong and not take the easy way out–cave-in and use ABC? On that, I have strong doubts.

I’m looking forward to diving into the research about fibroids. How unromantic is that?
Why would sex in your marriage be limited?

If your wife has a legitimate non-contraceptive reason to be on the Pill, you don’t need to abstain from marital relations.

Definitely help her to find a good Christian doctor who may have alternative treatment methods.
 
I want to reiterate what someone else stated: If she and her doctor decide to treat the fibroids with hormone therapy (which is the common prescription), it would obviously have an unintended side effect of birth control and possibly abortion. While this is something that should be weighed heavily, if she and the doctor decide it is best to treat her medical condition in this manner, she is free to do so. The possible unintended side effects do not cause her to sin.

Further, if she were to be on hormone therapy (for medical or birth control reasons) you would still be able to have sex within the marriage at your pleasure without “sharing” the sin (if it were sinning, depending on the goal).

Further, if she were on hormone therapy for medical reasons, you would not be under any kind of obligation to follow NFP (abstain on days you would normally have) if you do not want to. Of course, this would be between you, she, and God, as hormone therapy does not have a wonderful rate of effectiveness for preventing pregnancy, which would mean if you did not abstain there would be a possibility of pregnancy.

These threads in the Ask an Apologist forum might interest you:

Can Catholics use the abortion pill for medical reasons?

Can the Pill be taken for medical reasons?

The Pill to reduce a cyst?

Pill allowed as an abortifacient?

What are our obligations regarding my huband’s past vasectomy?

Am I doing enough to stop my wife from taking birth control?

Can I have marital relations with my sterilized wife?

What to do if spouses cannot agree on birth control?

Are marital relations not supposed to be pleasurable?

Can you help me find alternatives to birth control pills or Depo shots?

May I poke holes in my husband’s condoms?

Is it o.k. to take birth control pills for health reasons?

What is best resource to explain the Catholic position on artificial birth control?

Is it OK to take birth control pills for medical reasons?

Is it okay to follow my doctors advice?

Can a woman take the pill after a tubal ligation?

prescribing oral contraceptives
 
Veeerrryyyy eeeeenteresssstingggg, these last two responses. I thought that using ABC for MEDICAL reasons would require that couples abstain. I can see an argument about how it wouldn’t be sinful to have normal marital relations if the INTENT to artificially contracept wasn’t there, but then, I can see both sides. Seems almost like a slippery slope argument–start using ABC for medical reasons, get used to it, and continue. It could be a near occasion of sin…

But, I’ll check out these links. Thanks.
 
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montanaman:
I’m looking forward to diving into the research about fibroids. How unromantic is that?
VERY romantic…it shows how much you love her, that you are willing to delve into such a subject to find the best treatment for her as if it were happening within your own body. 🙂
 
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Forest-Pine:
I want to reiterate what someone else stated: If she and her doctor decide to treat the fibroids with hormone therapy (which is the common prescription), it would obviously have an unintended side effect of birth control and possibly abortion.
I take it the birth control pill is considered ‘hormone therapy’ in this case instead of “artificial birth control”???

So that even though we’re talking about the same item “The Pill”, the use for the item classifies it under two different categories - one acceptable by the Church, the other, not?
 
YinYangMom said:
VERY romantic…it shows how much you love her, that you are willing to delve into such a subject to find the best treatment for her as if it were happening within your own body. 🙂

Lol. Oh, right–that whole Mars/Venus thing. I momentarily forgot that we’re hooked-up different.

Luckily, I have some experience with this. I massively over-researched hysterectomies for an article that was eventually spiked, once upon a time. I talked to about a dozen women who told me the most heart-wrenching stories about how their doctors didn’t give them all the facts, etc… Anyway, the horror stories they told me regarding very intimate details of their anatomy cured whatever adolescent heebie-jeebies I ever had about that stuff.
 
Congratulations Montanaman. I remember you posting about this young woman over the last year. Best wishes to you as you discern possible marriage to this young woman. She must feel the same way you do if she is converting despite her parents’ views.
 
Nobody says that the chemical formula is somehow intrinsically evil. The problem with ABC in general is how it changes the sex act from giving to taking when done purposely to avoid pregnancy. That is not the case when it is a medical treatment for an unrelated condition.

However, I do have a problem with the attitude that once there, don’t give it another thought. If we really believe that all human life begins at conception, then we CANNOT adopt an attitude towards tiny humans of “oh well, whatever. I don’t have to worry about THEM.”

From my limited knowledge on the subject, I don’t see why one couldn’t determine when in the varying routine of hormone treatments that she is most at risk of having a breakthrough ovulation. Then abstain for a few days during that time to avoid killing an innocent human being.

Is that so much to ask?

I found the discussion linked to be troublingly lacking in discerning the difference between unintended miscarriage due to natural reasons and unintended miscarriage due to foreseeable consequences. A woman who drives her 1 year old around unbuckled in the front seat beside her may not intend to kill him. But IMO, she bears some responsibility if they crash and he dies. Same thing.
 
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manualman:
Nobody says that the chemical formula is somehow intrinsically evil. The problem with ABC in general is how it changes the sex act from giving to taking when done purposely to avoid pregnancy. That is not the case when it is a medical treatment for an unrelated condition.

However, I do have a problem with the attitude that once there, don’t give it another thought. If we really believe that all human life begins at conception, then we CANNOT adopt an attitude towards tiny humans of “oh well, whatever. I don’t have to worry about THEM.”

From my limited knowledge on the subject, I don’t see why one couldn’t determine when in the verying routine of hormone treatments that she is most at risk of having a breakthrough ovulation. Then abstain for a few days during that time to avoid killing an innocent human being.

Is that so much to ask?
No, it’s not too much to ask. It’s a very serious consideration that we will have to weigh. However, I’m relieved that it may not necessarily mean a choice between abstinance or contradicting Church teaching. Ultimately, if it came down to choosing a girl with whom I’d have to choose between orthodoxy or heterodoxy, I’d choose to part ways with her. I’ve read too many heart-breaking threads on this board to willingly get myself into a difficult marital situation.

As it is, I’d say she’s “open” to the Church’s teachings on NFP and ABC, but she doesn’t embrace them. However, I don’t think it would take much for her to abandon them if it hormonal push came down to biological shove, particularly if my stance on the issue in any way resembled her Dad’s dictatorial methods. At least with what I’ve read so far there’s a little bit of wiggle room.

To be clear, I DO NOT WANT TO BE HALF OF A CONTRACEPTING COUPLE. I’ve been crossing back and forth over the line for far too long, and now that I’ve set my anchor relatively firmly in moral ground, I’ve learned to LIKE it here. Coupling myself with a woman who doesn’t share that clear-minded view of God’s will over our own would just be a disaster.

That said, I’m really warming up to the idea of leaving bachelorhood behind… 😉
 
Yup, it’s nice here on this side of the marriage fence!

Even if circumstances take away a few days a month of, um possibilities! God Bless!
 
Montana man,

It would seem to me that coupling medical use of contraceptives with Natural Family Planning might provide a way out. You’re right that it could become very tricky morally to discern whether one is intending or simply tolerating the contraceptive results, even if one only takes contraceptives for medical reasons and might thereby be acting morally. Natural Family Planning would seem to help this scenario on two accounts (at least). For one, you would be abstaining during periods of natural fertility, so it seems to me that there would be no chance of a breakthrough ovulation that could result in pregnancy and abortion-by-contraceptive. Two, the internal, spiritual disposition that a couple can foster through NFP would guard against a mentality of contraception/self-gratification.

Don’t underestimate your girlfriend’s ability to be ATTRACTED by the Church’s teaching on contraception/sex in your particular situation. What can seem as hairsplitting from the outside can become amazingly reassuring with further research, evidence of a rock-solid, non-contradictory grasp of the wonder and meaning of sexual intercourse. My husband and I were utterly baffled by the Church’s teaching before we became Catholic and married; we weren’t against it, just weirded out by it, and a bit leery. The more we searched, the more we found!

After accepting NFP intellectually, our hearts began to embrace it. On a side note, we were stunned to find out how accurate it is. One year of using it —no pregancies. TWO DAYS of trying: pregnant!! Best wishes!
 
Some of the people on this forum seem to be more Catholic than the Pope. It is fine to use “The Pill” for medical reasons. See the Humane Vitae encyclical. You don’t have to abstain if you’re married. You can back up what I have told you by looking in the Ask and Apologist section of this forum.
 
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