Marriage Doesn't Just Happen

[AnastasiaRomano]

Yes, that’s quite possible. I wonder whether the pool of potential spouses–i.e. those who are willing to make a lifetime commitment–may actually be shrinking and if that’s part of the problem. I wonder if the pool of marriageables has become tainted due to societal factors, resulting in a smaller pool of potental spouses.

I think this is it, in a nutshell. Relatively few people seem to consider their early- to mid-20s as time for marriage. Instead, many see it as a time to party, enjoy the “single life,” and get established in a career. Once all of that is done, they then begin to look for the “perfect” spouse… only to find that everyone around them is pretty much the same as them, and not necessarily interested in growing up. The pool of people who are interested in growing up and making a lifetime commitment is probably much smaller, and it’s not usually the same crowd that most single 20-somethings party with.

There’s a thought-provoking article from a few years back that ran in The Atlantic, called “Marry Him! The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough.” (theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/306651/) The author’s argument is that many single people, as odd as it sounds, idealize marriage – and seek the “perfect” spouse. Of course, everyone is human, which means that perfection is basically impossible to find. Her argument goes a little too far, I think, but she makes some good points. When I was single, I met other single women who had a lengthy list of non-negotiables for their future spouse. Some of the items on this list were good (strong faith, weekly Mass attendance), but others seemed to have little correlation to a man’s marriageability (liking a certain sport, eating a certain diet, being of a certain height, having a certain hair or eye color). They desired perfection – but what if the items on that list led them to overlook the spouse God had in store for them?

FWIW, I was engaged at 21 – to the wrong man, a man who left me for another woman shortly before our wedding. When I finally did get married, I was 26 – and my husband is definitely the right man.

 

[TraderTif]

My husband and I aren’t part of the 9% either. (Married this year, early 30’s/late 20’s).

Sure, I married late, but it took me a long time to meet my husband. (The first guy I ever dated, and I found him here on the CAF and had to travel 1000 miles to date)

So, I married late simply because of lack of opportunity, and the complications of my individual situation. (Hard to meet people when you’re dealing with multiple, severe, chronic health problems, etc.) It had nothing to do with “wanting to get all my ducks in a row”. And the same is basically true of my husband.

But I think the article is excellent - it seems like most of the younger people I’ve known really don’t know how to date. (It took me 13 years to get through college, and I hardly EVER saw anyone dating in all that time.)

 

[KellyPalmer]

I have to agree with everything PaulinVA wrote.

And as for an addition of my own opinion, college is way overrated. I’m way more concerned about my children getting married than going to college. I think our culture places more importance on getting a college degree and making money than on the sacrament of marriage. College isn’t going to help my child become holy or make it into heaven.

I have to look to the most wonderful Catholic married couple I know and that would be my grandparents. They married when my grandma was 16, my grandpa 18. Now here they are 65 years later and still blissfully married and still devoutly Catholic.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

If we want more young American Catholics to get married, we need to:

• do something about the cost of college tuition so that grads are buried in debt;
• find a way to bring down the cost of medical care;
• create more living wage jobs;
• lessen our material expectations;
• expand family, medical leave, and vacation time;
• stop expecting private sector employees to be available 24/7 via text messaging, email, and the Internet;
• place more social value on rest and relaxation time;
• stop worshiping idols like the television, video games, and the Internet;
• put down our smart phones and learn to have face-to-face conversations;
• get a handle on the billion dollar wedding industry that has convinced us that our wedding needs to be a Never-Seen-Before-Blowout-Extravaganza-Or-You’re-Not-Doing-It-Right

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I have to agree with everything PaulinVA wrote.

And as for an addition of my own opinion, college is way overrated. I’m way more concerned about my children getting married than going to college. I think our culture places more importance on getting a college degree and making money than on the sacrament of marriage. College isn’t going to help my child become holy or make it into heaven.

I have to look to the most wonderful Catholic married couple I know and that would be my grandparents. They married when my grandma was 16, my grandpa 18. Now here they are 65 years later and still blissfully married and still devoutly Catholic.

College might not get your kids to heaven, but it’s likely going to make their and their children’s lives in this realm a lot better.

Anti-intellectualism is not a Catholic virtue.

 

[KellyPalmer]

College might not get your kids to heaven, but it’s likely going to make their and their children’s lives in this realm a lot better.

Anti-intellectualism is not a virtue.

I disagree. Sometimes I think sending a child to college in 2013 is anti-intellectual! The world has changed a lot in recent years and it’s looking like it’s only going to get worse. There are plenty of ways to become educated without college and without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact, take my grandparents for example. They are the most well off people I know IRL. My grandma is the main bread winner yet she did not even graduate high school and certainly has no college degree. I realize this little anecdote is not a reason to recommend failure to graduate high school.

I’d challenge you one further – what does it mean for a parent and child’s life to be “a lot better”? Keeping up with the Joneses? When they married, my grandpa enlisted in the Air Force and they immediately began having kids back to back. My grandma had 5 kids by the time she was 22 and went on to have 7 total. They lived in a 2 bedroom house. The second bedroom had 2 sets of triple bunk beds! They didn’t have much in the way of material possessions but you know?! It was good for them! Better than what our kids have today. Today we live in a world of luxury and waste.

 

[Baelor]

Sometimes I think sending a child to college in 2013 is anti-intellectual!

That clear makes no sense. At worst, college is neutral (assuming one takes only vocational classes). How on earth do can you justify the idea that it is anti-intellectual?

I think that our society needs to reprioritize, with a focus on service to others and mutual dependence, but that is a little too far.

Honestly, I think that the marriage issue is a symptom of two larger ones: selfishness and the strive for total independence (which is an illusion anyway).

 

[KellyPalmer]

That clear makes no sense. At worst, college is neutral (assuming one takes only vocational classes). How on earth do can you justify the idea that it is anti-intellectual?

I think that our society needs to reprioritize, with a focus on service to others and mutual dependence, but that is a little too far.

Honestly, I think that the marriage issue is a symptom of two larger ones: selfishness and the strive for total independence (which is an illusion anyway).

It was tongue in cheek. I justify the statement by the ridiculous cost of college today and the job market left when one graduates. It’s not neutral when you are paying off student loans for the better part of your kid’s childhood.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I disagree. Sometimes I think sending a child to college in 2013 is anti-intellectual! The world has changed a lot in recent years and it’s looking like it’s only going to get worse. There are plenty of ways to become educated without college and without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact, take my grandparents for example. They are the most well off people I know IRL. My grandma is the main bread winner yet she did not even graduate high school and certainly has no college degree. I realize this little anecdote is not a reason to recommend failure to graduate high school.

I’d challenge you one further – what does it mean for a parent and child’s life to be “a lot better”? Keeping up with the Joneses? When they married, my grandpa enlisted in the Air Force and they immediately began having kids back to back. My grandma had 5 kids by the time she was 22 and went on to have 7 total. They lived in a 2 bedroom house. The second bedroom had 2 sets of triple bunk beds! They didn’t have much in the way of material possessions but you know?! It was good for them! Better than what our kids have today. Today we live in a world of luxury and waste.

2 things:

1. You’re right, the world has changed a lot since your grandparents, or even parents. Good luck making a living wage without some form of higher education.
2. College grads have lower divorce rates.
3. People with advanced degrees even lower yet.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Ok, that was 3 things.

 

[KellyPalmer]

2 things:

1. You’re right, the world has changed a lot since your grandparents, or even parents. Good luck making a living wage without some form of higher education.
2. College grads have lower divorce rates.
3. People with advanced degrees even lower yet.

1. I agree that some form of higher education is a good thing but I think getting a 4 year degree is overrated in today’s world. Just looking around at the people in my life, that is clearly evident. And I’m not talking about my grandparents or even my parents. We haven’t needed luck. My parents had 4 kids and only 1 of them has a 4 year degree. That one is currently unemployed. The rest of us are doing very well financially. The one with the 4 year degree is also an Atheist and the rest of us are practicing Catholics.

2 &3 Please cite the studies. I have some theories on why that might be but I would like to review the evidence that you are referring to. Correlation does not imply causation.

Look, I know this is a hot button topic for many and I really didn’t mean to derail the thread. I’m not saying college is a bad thing but I personally believe it’s a mistake to hold it as a priority over marriage. If someone is properly raised up in the faith with good parenting, I don’t think they will have a problem getting by in life without college. And in many cases, I think college can be a time where people do destructive things in their faith life and frequently put themselves at near occasion of sin. And I think sometimes the results aren’t worth it.

 

[Kelfa28]

2 things:

1. You’re right, the world has changed a lot since your grandparents, or even parents. Good luck making a living wage without some form of higher education.
2. College grads have lower divorce rates.
3. People with advanced degrees even lower yet.

I disagree with this.

My husband and I have no degree and no student loan debt…our only debt is the house.

We’ve never had financial problems what-so-ever. I don’t think we are likely too.

Yes, we don’t have high paying jobs but we also don’t own brand new cars, tons of “toys” and credit card debt. We’re minimalists and have no desire to buy or own things we can’t afford.

Why do you need to always have a crazy advanced degree to be anything in life? Yes, I’m getting a degree right now but it’s because the military is paying for me to do so. Literally, paying our mortgage and tuition for me to go to school.

Otherwise I’d be still working the paramedic job I had and making 40k a year…that I didn’t need a degree for.

 

[Baelor]

1. I agree that some form of higher education is a good thing but I think getting a 4 year degree is overrated in today’s world. Just looking around at the people in my life, that is clearly evident. And I’m not talking about my grandparents or even my parents. We haven’t needed luck. My parents had 4 kids and only 1 of them has a 4 year degree. That one is currently unemployed. The rest of us are doing very well financially. The one with the 4 year degree is also an Atheist and the rest of us are practicing Catholics.

Look, I know this is a hot button topic for many and I really didn’t mean to derail the thread. I’m not saying college is a bad thing but I personally believe it’s a mistake to hold it as a priority over marriage. If someone is properly raised up in the faith with good parenting, I don’t think they will have a problem getting by in life without college. And in many cases, I think college can be a time where people do destructive things in their faith life and frequently put themselves at near occasion of sin. And I think sometimes the results aren’t worth it.

Please do not derail this thread. That being said, it is certainly anti-intellectual to view college only as a means to earn a living. Second, all of my engaged friends met their fiance(e)s through college. Third, if universities and higher learning did not exist, we would not know what constitutes near occasion of sin because the entirety of Catholic theology is based on theological and rational inquiry, which happens in environments like universities.

That being said, education should not be fundamentally prioritized over marriage.

 

[KellyPalmer]

Please do not derail this thread. That being said, it is certainly anti-intellectual to view college only as a means to earn a living. Second, all of my engaged friends met their fiance(e)s through college. Third, if universities and higher learning did not exist, we would not know what constitutes near occasion of sin because the entirety of Catholic theology is based on theological and rational inquiry, which happens in environments like universities.

That being said, education should not be fundamentally prioritized over marriage.

Did you really just ask me not to derail the thread while you continue to do so ? That being said, I don’t view college as only a means to earn a living so I’m not sure where you got that from. Of course your engaged friends who went to college met their fiances at college. People who don’t go to college are less likely to meet their fiances at college, lol. Your third conclusion is quite a leap. I would encourage you to consider that it’s anti-intellectual to view college as the only place where theological and rational inquiry occur.

 

[JimG]

I think this is it, in a nutshell. Relatively few people seem to consider their early- to mid-20s as time for marriage. Instead, many see it as a time to party, enjoy the “single life,” and get established in a career. Once all of that is done, they then begin to look for the “perfect” spouse… only to find that everyone around them is pretty much the same as them, and not necessarily interested in growing up. The pool of people who are interested in growing up and making a lifetime commitment is probably much smaller, and it’s not usually the same crowd that most single 20-somethings party with.

There’s a thought-provoking article from a few years back that ran in The Atlantic, called “Marry Him! The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough.” (theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/306651/) The author’s argument is that many single people, as odd as it sounds, idealize marriage – and seek the “perfect” spouse. Of course, everyone is human, which means that perfection is basically impossible to find. Her argument goes a little too far, I think, but she makes some good points. When I was single, I met other single women who had a lengthy list of non-negotiables for their future spouse. Some of the items on this list were good (strong faith, weekly Mass attendance), but others seemed to have little correlation to a man’s marriageability (liking a certain sport, eating a certain diet, being of a certain height, having a certain hair or eye color). They desired perfection – but what if the items on that list led them to overlook the spouse God had in store for them?

FWIW, I was engaged at 21 – to the wrong man, a man who left me for another woman shortly before our wedding. When I finally did get married, I was 26 – and my husband is definitely the right man.

That’s true to some extent, I believe. There is no perfect spouse—and yet there is, because spouse’s perfect each other if their vows are truly meant and lived. I don’t mean that you should marry anyone expecting to change them. But committed, permanent, spousal love does change marriage partners for the better, if they truly commit to their common life rather than their individual lives. One doesn’t go into marriage for what one can get out of it, or to change anyone, but in order two make two lives into one, with a common purpose. The old “Exhortation Before Marriage that used to be used in the Roman Rite before 1962 puts it this way:

“No greater blessing can come to your married life than pure conjugal love, loyal and true to the end. May, then, this love with which you join your hands and hearts today never fail, but grow deeper and stronger as the years go on. And if true love and the unselfish spirit of perfect sacrifice guide your every action, you can expect the greatest measure of earthly happiness that may be alloted to man in this vale of tears.”
The whole exhortation can be found here: missale.heliohost.org/nuptial.html

It sets out a view of marriage which one hardly finds anymore.

 

[Baelor]

That being said, I don’t view college as only a means to earn a living so I’m not sure where you got that from.

The fact that your entire discussion of college and whether it is worth it has addressed only its financial benefits/losses.

Of course your engaged friends who went to college met their fiances at college. People who don’t go to college are less likely to meet their fiances at college, lol.

No, I mean that the couples went to college together or met otherwise through being at university (conferences, symposia, etc.). That is, college can be a good way to meet a spouse.

Your third conclusion is quite a leap. I would encourage you to consider that it’s anti-intellectual to view college as the only place where theological and rational inquiry occur.

As you know, that would not be anti-intellectual at all, but rather closed-minded/myopic. Also, it is obvious that the university is not the only place that theological and rational inquiry can occur. Nevertheless, it is certainly the most important, and institutions of education – like monasteries – were in many ways similar to universities, which were originally religious in nature anyway. The mere suggestion that any other medium or institution can compare to a university is absurd. Still, college should not be prioritized over marriage.