Marriage - East vs. West

[PENR]

I was reading a book last night that explained that Priests in some of the Eastern Rites (I forget the exact names of the Rites but there were four or five) can get married (however, if they do they cannot ever become Bishops). My question is this…

The Priest we had was from the Eastern Rite, he is serving us in the Western Rite. If his Rite was one that allows marriage, could he get married while serving us in the Western Rite?

This question is pretty irrelevant and I will be asking my RCIA class next week but in the meantime I was curious! Anybody know anything about this?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I was reading a book last night that explained that Priests in some of the Eastern Rites (I forget the exact names of the Rites but there were four or five) can get married (however, if they do they cannot ever become Bishops). My question is this…

The Priest we had was from the Eastern Rite, he is serving us in the Western Rite. If his Rite was one that allows marriage, could he get married while serving us in the Western Rite?

This question is pretty irrelevant and I will be asking my RCIA class next week but in the meantime I was curious! Anybody know anything about this?

No priest is allowed to get married. What happens is married men is ordained into the priesthood.

There are no issues with a married priest saying the Mass if he has the faculties. There are many married Latin Rite priests.

 

[PENR]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

 

[RyanBlack]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

It is absolutely incorrect. In the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well as in the Eastern Orthodox Churches, there is a tradition of ordaining married mean as priests. Once ordained, unmarried men are not permitted to marry.

 

[shawnbm]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

I think that is an inaccurate interpretation of the book. Eastern Rite priests can be married, but they can’t marry once they are ordained to sacred orders.

 

[Biedrik]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

Dead wrong. They aren’t allowed to marry after ordination. If a priest’s wife dies, he is expected to live celibate from that point on. I don’t know why that book would say otherwise. Clearly they haven’t done their research.

 

[ConstantineTG]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

As what everyone said. The Sacraments are the same East and West. The celibacy rule in the West only states that they will ordain only celibate men. In the East, some Churches prefer celibate men, such as the Chaldean Church. So its less of a rule but they still would only ordain celibates under most circumstances. In the Byzantine Churches there is no such standing rule. Single and married men can be ordained. But the rule on ordination is universal. If you are single when you get ordained, you are single for life. This goes with St. Paul’s teaching that we should remain in the state we are in when we get called. Only those who receive ordination while married may in the future get remarried if the wife dies. Even then, its not a given.

 

[PENR]

All very interesting information.

I’m not sure why remarriage was brought up but that’s interesting information too so it’s all good.

Thank you.

 

[joseph510]

I’m a lurker so pardon my post. However, I have that book - Catholicism For Dummies. Can you tell me what page that quote is on? As the previous posters said, married men can become priests, but once a priest, celibacy is required.

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

 

[Aramis]

All very interesting information.

I’m not sure why remarriage was brought up but that’s interesting information too so it’s all good.

Thank you.

Because it’s one of two very limited ways an ordained man may contract new marriage…

1. papal or patriarchal indult due to small children in home and the need for a mother for them
2. laicization in order to marry.

In both cases, it’s an oikonomia (economia)… a relaxing of the rules of the church in order to prevent grave sins.

And the no-new-marriages restriction (celibacy) hits at ordination to the diaconate, not the priesthood.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Because it’s one of two very limited ways an ordained man may contract new marriage…

1. papal or patriarchal indult due to small children in home and the need for a mother for them
2. laicization in order to marry.

In both cases, it’s an oikonomia (economia)… a relaxing of the rules of the church in order to prevent grave sins.

And the no-new-marriages restriction (celibacy) hits at ordination to the diaconate, not the priesthood.

Someone told me that in the Byzantine Rite, this even begins when one is ordained a subdeacon. This is true among the Slavic Churches, but not the Melkites. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Vico]

Someone told me that in the Byzantine Rite, this even begins when one is ordained a subdeacon. This is true among the Slavic Churches, but not the Melkites. Can anyone confirm?

The eastern major orders begin with diaconate so they also must remain unmarried if already unmarried at the time of Holy Orders. The subdeacon is not an eastern major order. In the Latin Church the subdiaconate was a major order but was supressed.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19931013en.html

ukrarcheparchy.us/index.php?categoryid=93

The Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Churches has two minor orders, Karoya (Lector) and the Hepdyakna (Subdeacon) and major order M’samsana (deacon).

The Syro-Malankara Church has the minor orders of Samrono (Cantor) Karoyo (Lector) and Hepdyakna (Subdeacon).

 

[SVP]

Perhaps the book title should have been “Catholicism for dummies, by dummies”.

Priests have NEVER been allowed to marry after ordination in the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox church. Marriage is allowed specifically prior to ordination to the diaconate.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The eastern major orders begin with diaconate so they also must remain unmarried if already unmarried at the time of Holy Orders. The subdeacon is not an eastern major order. In the Latin Church the subdiaconate was a major order but was supressed.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19931013en.html

ukrarcheparchy.us/index.php?categoryid=93

The Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Churches has two minor orders, Karoya (Lector) and the Hepdyakna (Subdeacon) and major order M’samsana (deacon).

The Syro-Malankara Church has the minor orders of Samrono (Cantor) Karoyo (Lector) and Hepdyakna (Subdeacon).

Didn’t really answer my question. I know they are minor orders, my question is that someone told me that even then, those who are ordained into becoming subdeacons are expected to remain the way they are at ordination (married or single) and this holds true for slavic Churches. The person was Melkite and said that Melkite subdeacons can still get married if they are single. Since this is a discipline, it can vary from Church to Church, so my question is if the information given to me was accurate.

Also I don’t know why you brought up the Latin and Syriac Churches when my question was clearly about the Byzantine Rite Churches

 

[5Loaves]

? That’s not what I read. The book I was reading was Catholicism for Dummies and it said that Priests in certain Eastern Rites CAN get married. It was pretty clear on the issue. Not that they can become a priest if they were married first but that they can get married. The book is fairly modern so I was assuming the information was up to date?

What page, please?
Catholicism for Dummies Pg 121:

"The celibacy issue:…A man may be ordained when he’s single or married if he’s Eastern Catholic, but after ordination, a single cleric can’t marry, and a married cleric can’t remarry if his wife dies, unless they have small children and he receives a dispensation from Rome. Marriage must precede ordination according to Eastern tradition, or it can never be received. This is the ancient tradition of both the Catholic and the Orthodox churches…

Perhaps the book title should have been “Catholicism for dummies, by dummies”.

I think PENR has misremembered what he read. See the quote I provide from this book. I’ve always found Fr. John Trigilio, co-author of this book, fields questions about EC and Orthodox quite well in both Q&A series he’s been part of on EWTN.

I find Catholicism for Dummies very useful as regards the Latin Church. The quote above about celibacy and married priests in the ECCs I find accurate.

 

[Vico]

The eastern major orders begin with diaconate so they also must remain unmarried if already unmarried at the time of Holy Orders. The subdeacon is not an eastern major order. In the Latin Church the subdiaconate was a major order but was supressed.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19931013en.html

ukrarcheparchy.us/index.php?categoryid=93

The Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Churches has two minor orders, Karoya (Lector) and the Hepdyakna (Subdeacon) and major order M’samsana (deacon).

The Syro-Malankara Church has the minor orders of Samrono (Cantor) Karoyo (Lector) and Hepdyakna (Subdeacon).

I understand that you mentioned the Melkite and the Slavic churches, which means Byzantine. However my answer is with regard to the eastern churches as a whole, which also includes those reuniting from the Assyrian, Oriental, and Eastern, Orthodox.

The Vatican article gives a history from the early Church, and the Ukrainian Catholic shows the Slavic use.

 

[PENR]

Sorry I didn’t come back earlier. I realized my mistake. I read the book in chunks (a few paragraphs at a time) and I hadn’t finished that chapter. As I continued reading I realized they DO clarify that married priests are only allowed if they were married BEFORE ordination. Unfortunately because I didn’t read the whole chapter before forming an opinion I was a bit confused.

Personally I enjoy Catholicism for Dummies. It has been FAR more informative then our RCIA class AND it is not my only source of instruction so I’m not too concerned.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut!!!