Marriage Encounter- bad experience?

[rayne89]

We had our original Marriage Encounter 20 years ago and at the time, loved it. Through Marriage Encounter we had learned about Retrouvaille and later in our marriage Retrouvaille truly saved our marriage. Last year we decided to do another Marriage Encounter. I think it was pretty much the same as far as presentation but my feelings about it weren’t. It seemed boring. I remember feeling elated after our first marriage encounter, we did the follow up -it was a great experience. This last time -it just kind of fell flat. I don’t know if at being married for so long and really knowing each other well, the questions seemed trite or what. It was disappointing really.I will say the off shoot of Marriage Encounter -Retrouvaille is very successful in saving marriages. It saved mine, and years later my non-catholic best friend and her husband benefited greatly from it.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

Through Marriage Encounter we had learned about Retrouvaille and later in our marriage Retrouvaille truly saved our marriage. Retrouvaille is very successful in saving marriages. It saved mine, and years later my non-catholic best friend and her husband benefited greatly from it.

Retrouvaille (the joy of finding someone gain after a long separation) and Engaged Encounter are both offshoots of Marriage Encounter. Retrouvaille can help troubled marriages; Engaged Encounter can help prevent unhappy marriages. The EE weekend strives to have engaged couples discuss some matters they may have been avoiding; that discussion can lead to a decision not to enter into marriage with the fiancé(e). Engaged Encounter presenters consider a weekend successful if a couple decides not to marry.

 

[sailor28]

I wanted to take a minute and share what we found meaningful about the weekend.

First, we did not have to sit in a smoky, stuffy room on metal chairs. We were in a beautiful retreat center in a lovely location with very comfortable chairs. When asked for the donation at the end we had time to think about it. We gave $250. There was no pressure and no questions asked.

Our retreat was meaningful. Although, it was not life changing. It was time of connection and reflection. The couples that gave talks were well prepared and had marriages that my husband and I thought embodied ones that were living out the sacrament of marriage.

Topics we discussed included: our personality styles and how that comes into play in our relationship, communicating feelings, listening, God’s desire for marriage, marriage as a sacrament. It was not like it was all a new revelations for us but in the years since our retreat we do have a deeper understanding of all these things.

ME teaches you a tool called dialogue. It is basically a love letter you write to you spouse. I love the written word!! It is also a way to affirm and pray for your spouse in written word.

Topics for dialogue are endless. You take 10 minutes to write and 10 minutes to read. It creates intimate discussion and thoughts about spiritual, physical and emotional topics.
(side note: my husband and I have never adopted the ME style. We have our own style of sharing and doing dialogue)

Dialogue questions can include:

Has our sacrament been a visible sign to our family?
Luke 15:1-15 Where do I see myself in this gospel?
Do I show my love for you in my daily actions?
How can we keep romance vibrant while raising a family?
How has our romantic love led to greater self-sacrificing?

Other questions can be found at: wwme.org/dialog-questions.html

I am an introvert so I did find the length of the weekend challenging. I don’t like random chit chat so I loved the meaningful questions we had at meals that created intentional conversation. I didn’t consider it fake or forced. We did not connect with the priest that led the weekend. We found parts of the weekend cheesy. However, we joined a small group after and it has been very helpful to be connected to other married couples who are serious about the sacrament of marriage. We have been struggling to find our way through the church and ME provides a much needed connection for us.

It is true that ME is not for everyone. Before the retreat you are called and asked questions to determine if the retreat is right for you. The atmosphere is relaxed. ME is open to all couples, Catholic or not. They do a good job of being a gateway ministry. By that I mean not hitting people over the head with the catechism but gently leading couples to a closer relationship to God. Taking them exactly where they are at on their journey. The leaders were living a deep faith but presented it in a way that drew others in rather than judged them.

Every ministry in the church has a cycle of ups and downs and times when it is good to start something new. ME has areas in need of improvement.

I have had a bad experience with other ministries in the church. Such as Opus Dei. I just don’t find the need to post about it online and see how many other people I can get to join in and share their negative experiences. That is why I was questioning why this is such a big issue for you after 30 years.

Can you tell me did you find other ministries in the church that were more helpful for you? I am presuming there was a reason you went on the retreat and were looking for something for your marriage. That is what I love about the church it is large and has so much to offer. I do hope you were able to find something that built up your marriage after all these years.

Also, given what you shared, I can’t believe you stayed the whole weekend!! My husband and I would have left. It seems ME experiences vary greatly. There are obviously some couples who love it and some who don’t. It does not make the whole ministry useless just because it was not beneficial for you.

 

[Gaelwynn]

I have had a bad experience with other ministries in the church. Such as Opus Dei. I just don’t find the need to post about it online and see how many other people I can get to join in and share their negative experiences. That is why I was questioning why this is such a big issue for you after 30 years.

Can you tell me did you find other ministries in the church that were more helpful for you? I am presuming there was a reason you went on the retreat and were looking for something for your marriage. That is what I love about the church it is large and has so much to offer. I do hope you were able to find something that built up your marriage after all these years.

Also, given what you shared, I can’t believe you stayed the whole weekend!! My husband and I would have left. It seems ME experiences vary greatly. There are obviously some couples who love it and some who don’t. It does not make the whole ministry useless just because it was not beneficial for you.

I am not answering for the original poster whose experience was roughly 30 years ago. Ours was very recent.

When the Church teaches that it is a violation of the 7th Commandment (“Thou shalt not steal.”) to take financial advantage of people (CCC 2409), and then does not adequately ensure that an event it promotes and sponsors does not use high-pressure sales techniques, which are of questionable ethics and contrary to Church teachings - specifically telling us the donation should be from our sustenance (which is what sustains us or basic living expenses), to solicit funds, I believe it should be addressed. ME offers a lot of good for some couples. But evil is not permitted so that good may result from it (CCC 1789). Although I do not know where it is in the catechism, I know we were taught that to not object to error is wrong. We wrote a note of protest, we put it in our envelope and signed it. We did leave in protest. We are writing the individual in our diocese responsible for the family life ministry. And we posted here to warn others of the potential for unchecked abuse.

Our diocese is awesome and our bishop is a wonderful shepherd. The Living in Love program is phenomenal for married couples. Also, the School of Faith programs and pilgrimages are jaw-droppingly wonderful. CRHP provided me a connection to others in my parish, which has given me a feeling of belonging I never had before, especially since I had relocated to this area. I believe with all my heart that if our bishop was aware of the techniques used to get money by the recent WWME retreat, he would be appalled and put measures in place to ensure it does not continue. He is a man of conviction and courage. He has publicly announced the removal of misbehaving priests and censored Catholic politicians, publicly telling them they should to refrain from reception of Holy Communion until they publicly retract their positions which were clearly in opposition to revealed truth as taught by the Church.

I am glad that some (probably most) of the WWME retreats provide many married couples a positive experience. Had it only been me that had the impression, I would have probably said nothing, but my wife - who honestly is better attuned to matters of social justice than I am - was livid. She researched WWME retreats afterwards and found the “Sermon on the Amount” with accompanying pressure is not uncommon.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

I started this thread with “I want to share my ideas and opinions on a movement that was once significant in the Catholic Church in the United States. I didn’t enjoy our Marriage Encounter weekend. In fact, I didn’t enjoy the entire Marriage Encounter experience, either.
I want to hear from people who love Marriage Encounter. I want to hear from people who don’t love Marriage Encounter. I want those ideas out there.”
I wanted to take a minute and share what we found meaningful about the weekend.
First, we did not have to sit in a smoky, stuffy room on metal chairs. We were in a beautiful retreat center in a lovely location with very comfortable chairs. When asked for the donation at the end we had time to think about it. We gave $250. There was no pressure and no questions asked.
Our “weekend” was in a chain motel adjacent to a major highway. In the 1970s there were no “Clean Indoor Air” laws. The “weekend” experience was so stressful that even casual smokers were lighting up from the butts of their last cigarettes. By the time we left we reeked of smoke. The chairs were institutional, folding metal chairs.
The couples that gave talks were well prepared and had marriages that my husband and I thought embodied ones that were living out the sacrament of marriage.
**The couples who presented our “weekend” read their presentations word-for-word. There was little spontaneity or humor evident among them. When my wife and I were subjected to our “weekend” in the 1970s, WWME was at its zenith in our area. They were giving so many “weekends” that WWME was scraping the bottom of the barrel for presenting teams. The folks who presented our “weekend” were from the bottom of the barrel. They had never before worked together, so there wasn’t a lot of chemistry among them. In my experience, it’s difficult to relate to a subject if one cannot relate to the presenter. I never felt any urge to emulate the presenters’ marital examples. **
Topics we discussed included: our personality styles and how that comes into play in our relationship, communicating feelings, listening, God’s desire for marriage, marriage as a sacrament.
Some of those topics are familiar from our “weekend,” but not personality styles.
ME teaches you a tool called dialogue. It is basically a love letter you write to you spouse. I love the written word!! It is also a way to affirm and pray for your spouse in written word.
Topics for dialogue are endless. You take 10 minutes to write and 10 minutes to read. It creates intimate discussion and thoughts about spiritual, physical and emotional topics.
(side note: my husband and I have never adopted the ME style. We have our own style of sharing and doing dialogue)
Our team’s opening presentation referred to the “weekend” as a “crash course in a technique of communication,” although the word Dialogue did not appear until the first talk after lunch on Saturday.
I am an introvert so I did find the length of the weekend challenging. I don’t like random chit chat so I loved the meaningful questions we had at meals that created intentional conversation. I didn’t consider it fake or forced.
When we attended our “weekend,” we had assigned seats at every meal, but there were no question sheets. I’m an introvert, too, so I kept mute during meals.
We joined a small group after and it has been very helpful to be connected to other married couples who are serious about the sacrament of marriage. We have been struggling to find our way through the church and ME provides a much needed connection for us.
We ignored the post-weekend phone calls for “get-togethers,” and the calls stopped after a month or so.
It is true that ME is not for everyone. Before the retreat you are called and asked questions to determine if the retreat is right for you.
The only calls we received before our glorious “weekend” were from total strangers, telling us how excited they were that we were going to make a “weekend.” These folks provided NO useful information about the experience. One has to remember, these were total strangers; why should they care about our Marriage Encounter, or us falling off a cliff, for that matter?

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

Part II
The atmosphere is relaxed.

**See above, about people lighting cigarettes from the still-burning butts of their last cigarettes. That seems to be conduct of people under stress. I could be wrong. **

The leaders were living a deep faith but presented it in a way that drew others in rather than judged them.

See above for my description of our presenting team couples.

I have had a bad experience with other ministries in the church. Such as Opus Dei.

See, we agree on something. I wouldn’t touch Opus Dei with a ten-foot pole.

I just don’t find the need to post about it online and see how many other people I can get to join in and share their negative experiences. That is why I was questioning why this is such a big issue for you after 30 years.

Marriage Encounter’s obsessive secrecy was a big turn-off. Former friends rang our doorbell on a Sunday night. They had just come from their Marriage Encounter “weekend.” Little did I know, at the close of the “weekend,” the team told the couples to write the name of six married couples. After that, the team tells the couples that these people are their recruiting targets. We were right at the top of our former friends’ list. They told us NOTHING, except that we had to go.
Our Marriage Encounter “weekend” flopped so miserably because of a perfect storm of problems. A lot of our difficulties with Marriage Encounter started when former friends tried to recruit us but wouldn’t give us any answers. If, right after their own “weekend,” they had answered our questions from the beginning, with “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,” would we have even bothered going on a Marriage Encounter “weekend?” Probably not.
We objected to the fervent secrecy which consumed our former friends and other Marriage Encounter recruiters. Marriage Encounter couples refused to give honest answers to honest questions. Some would call that dishonesty. We heard again and again, “We don’t want to spoil it for you.” Their smugness really irked me; their demeanor screamed, “We’ve got the secret, we’re better.”
When we finally attended, we showed up with very bad attitudes, products of the secrecy, cant, elitist airs, and pressure that we endured. People should realize that others don’t enjoy being coerced, cajoled, or deceived.
The emotionalism and kissy-touchy-feely of the “weekend” couples we saw at Speakers’ Night and elsewhere turned us off. We were, and are, a lot more reserved than that. I never once said to myself, “I want us to be like those people.” Our lack of respect for our former friends’ judgment and the bizarre behavior of most Marriage Encounter couples helped to deteriorate our normal benevolence and openness to new ideas. Our thought was, if we have to go, we’ll expose Marriage Encounter’s secrets.

Can you tell me did you find other ministries in the church that were more helpful for you? I am presuming there was a reason you went on the retreat and were looking for something for your marriage.

**Ultimately, our former friends’ persistent badgering just wore us down until we caved in and signed up for a “weekend.” We just wanted to get them off our backs. We liked these people, but didn’t have overwhelming respect for their judgment. I was the sole support of my wife and four little children. I routinely worked two jobs. I lost two days’ pay that “weekend.” **

That is what I love about the church it is large and has so much to offer. I do hope you were able to find something that built up your marriage after all these years.

My wife and I are daily communicants. We are involved in church ministries.

Also, given what you shared, I can’t believe you stayed the whole weekend!! My husband and I would have left.

**When we tell people the story of our glorious Marriage Encounter “weekend,” they almost always ask us, “Why did you stay, if it was so bad?” The answer is logical; if we left, we were sure that Marriage Encounter enthusiasts would tell us “You left just before it all pulled together,” or “You didn’t give it a fair chance, so how can you judge?” To forestall any such criticism, and with no little regret, we decided to endure the entire “weekend.” We actually didn’t make that decision until Saturday night. **

It seems ME experiences vary greatly. There are obviously some couples who love it and some who don’t. It does not make the whole ministry useless just because it was not beneficial for you.

We agree that not every retreat format is right for everyone; I am relating what happened to my wife and me as we were recruited and subsequently attended a WWME weekend. This happened to us; I am writing the truth.
All I can do is relate my personal, lived experience with Marriage Encounter. In the 1970s, there was almost no information available about Marriage Encounter. I found a Time magazine article and some newspaper pieces; and Fr. Chuck Gallagher’s book, which was not all that informative. Now we have the internet. Information is available with a keystroke. I’m just sad it took me decades to find a forum to air my thoughts.

 

[sailor28]

I am not answering for the original poster whose experience was roughly 30 years ago. Ours was very recent.

When the Church teaches that it is a violation of the 7th Commandment (“Thou shalt not steal.”) to take financial advantage of people (CCC 2409), and then does not adequately ensure that an event it promotes and sponsors does not use high-pressure sales techniques, which are of questionable ethics and contrary to Church teachings - specifically telling us the donation should be from our sustenance (which is what sustains us or basic living expenses), to solicit funds, I believe it should be addressed. ME offers a lot of good for some couples. But evil is not permitted so that good may result from it (CCC 1789). Although I do not know where it is in the catechism, I know we were taught that to not object to error is wrong. We wrote a note of protest, we put it in our envelope and signed it. We did leave in protest. We are writing the individual in our diocese responsible for the family life ministry. And we posted here to warn others of the potential for unchecked abuse.

Our diocese is awesome and our bishop is a wonderful shepherd. The Living in Love program is phenomenal for married couples. Also, the School of Faith programs and pilgrimages are jaw-droppingly wonderful. CRHP provided me a connection to others in my parish, which has given me a feeling of belonging I never had before, especially since I had relocated to this area. I believe with all my heart that if our bishop was aware of the techniques used to get money by the recent WWME retreat, he would be appalled and put measures in place to ensure it does not continue. He is a man of conviction and courage. He has publicly announced the removal of misbehaving priests and censored Catholic politicians, publicly telling them they should to refrain from reception of Holy Communion until they publicly retract their positions which were clearly in opposition to revealed truth as taught by the Church.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. I truly believe you need to raise your concerns with the people involved as it says in the gospel of Matthew 18

“If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16

• i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

Please contact you local ME couple and share what you shared with me. You must have the phone number of at least one person involved in the retreat. If you feel you have been violated financially ask them for the money back. If they do not listen then go to your bishop. You absolutely need to follow up on this.

We also got a similiar talk. Either I interpreted it differently or yours was presented differently. My personality is such that I don’t feel pressured. I didn’t feel the need to give more than we could. The leaders of ME do this on a volunteer basis. The couples are not paid for their time. They offer the retreat to all couples, whether they can pay or not. Most retreat places set a specific cost and ask every couple to pay it. Surely, you understand they need to cover expenses for the weekend and that at some point they needed to ask for money? I don’t think it is appropriate to post something like this here and not follow up with speaking with the ministry personally to rectify this. (Note I am not saying you can’t share your experience. Only that you need to follow up with this because you are charging a ministry with serious sin and they deserve a right to rectify it)

 

[sailor28]

Agustin,

You started this thread with “I want to share my ideas and opinions on a movement that was once significant in the Catholic Church in the United States. I didn’t enjoy our Marriage Encounter weekend. In fact, I didn’t enjoy the entire Marriage Encounter experience, either.
I want to hear from people who love Marriage Encounter. I want to hear from people who don’t love Marriage Encounter. I want those ideas out there.”

I simply wanted to share my experience that was different than yours. Your response was a bit overwhelming to me because I feel like you wanted to counter everything I said. Listen, I understand you had the most awful time of your life and that has left a very bitter taste in your mouth about the whole ministry.

I am sorry you had such a terrible experience and that it took this long for you to have the opportunity to speak about it in an open forum. I hope you have found some resolution or relief posting here. It is awful what you went through. I hate it when friends use me for something whether it is business or ministry. Not too mention you missed 2 days of work and you were supporting a young family. and to be kept in a smoky room?? That is beyond awful, truly. I am glad to hear you find support and grace in the church going to daily mass. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith and what a gift it is to be able to receive it with your wife. It sounds like you have been married for at least 40 years!

Peace be with you!

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

Agustin,

You started this thread with “I want to share my ideas and opinions on a movement that was once significant in the Catholic Church in the United States.

Sailor28

 

[Ridgerunner]

Plainly, from reading the posts above, experiences varied a lot from place to place and from time to time. But so do people. And their approaches, even needs, vary a great deal, and shift with time. It is therefore no great surprise to read that a number of people found it boring or oppressive or whatever, because it certainly can be seen that way.

I would say our experience of it was good.

It has been a long, long time since my wife and I went through it. We found it tiring, inasmuch as there is so much activity, and writing about feelings is wearing in itself. I can easily understand how some people might have no need of it or not be “ready” for it or even oriented to that kind of thing. One also had to WANT to get what it had to offer. I’m not being critical of those who expected something else or didn’t like what they experienced. I’m just saying it’s for some people and evidently not for others.

But the presenters make a tremendous amount of difference. The “teams” of presenters are not supposed to talk about themselves or discuss anything that identifies what they do or even where they’re from. But you can find out later if you want. Two of our teams were professional people. One was working class. Each had very different perspectives; from the everyday simple to the astonishingly erudite. The priest presenter is absolutely central. Ours was a very smart Benedictine from a rural background. When he talked, it was like he was talking to your very soul, he was so natural, unaffected, yet so wise.

My wife and I are not easily impressed, but we sure were impressed with that weekend. I didn’t mind the money talk. It was short, to the point, not pressured, and we gave what we felt we could readily afford. We were happy to do it.

We were, at the very end, taken aside and asked if we would want to become presenters. We weren’t to tell them right then, but after a week or two. We decided we would. One goes to a weekend of a different sort in preparation, then if one wants to go on with it, one is tutored in the presentation by experienced presenters.

Writing those talks was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life, despite the fact that I have always found writing a fairly easy thing to do and have given seminars. The really, really hard thing was changing from the “rational discourse” way of talking about life to the “how does it affect my feelings and my wife’s”. The teaching team took two new teams at a time, and they were nice, but very definite in what they expected. They would throw out whole talks if they didn’t think they were right, and one had to start over.

Presenting weekends was really draining, but we did a number of them, and were very glad we did. Fortunately, the other two teams were good. It was really amazing how it affected people. I recall the priest telling us after it was all over how many people went to confession for the first time in years; how many decided to get their marriages blessed, and so on. We were taught to avoid getting into any kind of conversation that was likely to be praising of us, but people did it anyway. It was interesting how different people reacted to different presenter couples. Some would pick out my wife and me. Some would pick out others. Different notes from different instruments striking ears ready to hear different things.

Ultimately, I really did learn two things, in addition to a lot of things my wife was thinking. First, while the emphasis on “feelings” could be horribly mishandled, (and I am very dubious of most “encounter”-type things) the real objective of focusing on it was to become more open to empathy. We are all awfully rational and judgmental, and true empathy is often a scarce commodity. Never will I forget the priest’s presentation about the woman caught in adultery. He “acted it out” using only his voice, his facial expressions and his hand gestures. It was like we were there with Jesus watching the whole thing. And, yes, it was not about tolerance of evil, but about empathy. Our priest said it straight up…“when you’re dealing with your spouse, you’re looking into the Face of Christ, because that’s what He told us we are doing…” Sobering.

The second thing was abandonment to Providence. In the “training”, that is greatly emphasized. It’s not passivity, but about truly trying to figure out what God’s role is for me and to accept that. Obviously, in M.E., a big part of that role is marriage and children, but that’s not all there is to it. It was truly jaw-dropping to me when I finally figured that out. That very thing led me to really study the life of Ste Therese of Lisieux because that was very big with her.

As we presented it, the “money talk” was more a matter of “donate what you truly think this did for you, within reason. Don’t donate the rent money”.

It was very popular in our area for a time, and not only Catholics went to it. There were protestants of all kinds, even mormons, but most were Catholic. There were some conversions that I felt came from it.

Eventually, my wife and I got so busy in our own lives that we couldn’t spend any more of our time on it. Being a team is really demanding. And, in truth, I think we got out of it what there was for us to get. But we never regretted going to it.

So, while I can easily see how M.E. could be a boring or bad experience, I think it could be otherwise too. I have no idea what it’s like today.

 

[cheese_sdc]

I want to share my ideas and opinions on a movement that was once significant in the Catholic Church in the United States. I didn’t enjoy our Marriage Encounter weekend. In fact, I didn’t enjoy the entire Marriage Encounter experience. either.
I want to hear from people who love Marriage Encounter. I want to hear from people who don’t love Marriage Encounter. I want those ideas out there.

I did a marriage encounter weekend years ago with my now ex-wife. I absolutely hated every minute. The energy of the weekend was to frenetic for me and they didn’t give any downtime for reflection or contemplation.

I also found that the practice of going to communion side by side kinda sappy and unnecessary.

I also had a serious falling out with the priest that was available for confession, but that’s a story for another day.

 

[sailor28]

Plainly, from reading the posts above, experiences varied a lot from place to place and from time to time. But so do people. And their approaches, even needs, vary a great deal, and shift with time. It is therefore no great surprise to read that a number of people found it boring or oppressive or whatever, because it certainly can be seen that way.

I would say our experience of it was good.

It has been a long, long time since my wife and I went through it. We found it tiring, inasmuch as there is so much activity, and writing about feelings is wearing in itself. I can easily understand how some people might have no need of it or not be “ready” for it or even oriented to that kind of thing. One also had to WANT to get what it had to offer. I’m not being critical of those who expected something else or didn’t like what they experienced. I’m just saying it’s for some people and evidently not for others.

But the presenters make a tremendous amount of difference. The “teams” of presenters are not supposed to talk about themselves or discuss anything that identifies what they do or even where they’re from. But you can find out later if you want. Two of our teams were professional people. One was working class. Each had very different perspectives; from the everyday simple to the astonishingly erudite. The priest presenter is absolutely central. Ours was a very smart Benedictine from a rural background. When he talked, it was like he was talking to your very soul, he was so natural, unaffected, yet so wise.

My wife and I are not easily impressed, but we sure were impressed with that weekend. I didn’t mind the money talk. It was short, to the point, not pressured, and we gave what we felt we could readily afford. We were happy to do it.

We were, at the very end, taken aside and asked if we would want to become presenters. We weren’t to tell them right then, but after a week or two. We decided we would. One goes to a weekend of a different sort in preparation, then if one wants to go on with it, one is tutored in the presentation by experienced presenters.

Writing those talks was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life, despite the fact that I have always found writing a fairly easy thing to do and have given seminars. The really, really hard thing was changing from the “rational discourse” way of talking about life to the “how does it affect my feelings and my wife’s”. The teaching team took two new teams at a time, and they were nice, but very definite in what they expected. They would throw out whole talks if they didn’t think they were right, and one had to start over.

Presenting weekends was really draining, but we did a number of them, and were very glad we did. Fortunately, the other two teams were good. It was really amazing how it affected people. I recall the priest telling us after it was all over how many people went to confession for the first time in years; how many decided to get their marriages blessed, and so on. We were taught to avoid getting into any kind of conversation that was likely to be praising of us, but people did it anyway. It was interesting how different people reacted to different presenter couples. Some would pick out my wife and me. Some would pick out others. Different notes from different instruments striking ears ready to hear different things.

Ultimately, I really did learn two things, in addition to a lot of things my wife was thinking. First, while the emphasis on “feelings” could be horribly mishandled, (and I am very dubious of most “encounter”-type things) the real objective of focusing on it was to become more open to empathy. We are all awfully rational and judgmental, and true empathy is often a scarce commodity. Never will I forget the priest’s presentation about the woman caught in adultery. He “acted it out” using only his voice, his facial expressions and his hand gestures. It was like we were there with Jesus watching the whole thing. And, yes, it was not about tolerance of evil, but about empathy. Our priest said it straight up…“when you’re dealing with your spouse, you’re looking into the Face of Christ, because that’s what He told us we are doing…” Sobering.

The second thing was abandonment to Providence. In the “training”, that is greatly emphasized. It’s not passivity, but about truly trying to figure out what God’s role is for me and to accept that. Obviously, in M.E., a big part of that role is marriage and children, but that’s not all there is to it. It was truly jaw-dropping to me when I finally figured that out. That very thing led me to really study the life of Ste Therese of Lisieux because that was very big with her.

As we presented it, the “money talk” was more a matter of “donate what you truly think this did for you, within reason. Don’t donate the rent money”.

It was very popular in our area for a time, and not only Catholics went to it. There were protestants of all kinds, even mormons, but most were Catholic. There were some conversions that I felt came from it.

Eventually, my wife and I got so busy in our own lives that we couldn’t spend any more of our time on it. Being a team is really demanding. And, in truth, I think we got out of it what there was for us to get. But we never regretted going to it.

So, while I can easily see how M.E. could be a boring or bad experience, I think it could be otherwise too. I have no idea what it’s like today.

Thanks Ridgerunner for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful reply. The couples who present on our weekend did an extraordinary job. I could tell they put a lot of time into it. I could see the empathy, love and depth in their relationships as well as the presence of God. There is such a great need today to support and uplift marriages.

 

[Gaelwynn]

I am sorry you had a bad experience. I truly believe you need to raise your concerns with the people involved as it says in the gospel of Matthew 18

“If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16

• i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

This reference mentioned in Mathew raises two interesting points:

1. The Scripture referenced is describing interactions with a fellow Christian brother or sister. Does the reference extend to institutions? How can one meet privately with an institution? My issue is not with the presenters, it was with WWME practices and controls. Our situation was not isolated, so it is an institutional problem. I do not believe the Scriptural reference applies to institutions. Humans were created in the image of God and I do not believe in extending the dignity due human beings to institutions. Also the next verses talk about treatment that would not fit institutions or organizations, but only to individuals, specifically members of the Church.
2. The section of Scripture this comes from Matthew 18:15-20 is generally considered by the Church to have been addressed to the Apostles. It contains the statements about:
   a) excommunication - treating them as pagans if they will not respond to private counsel, testimony of witnesses or the church
   b) what you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven and
   c) where two of you agree on anything and ask the Father it will be granted to you.
   The later three parts of the statements in this section of Scripture are only considered to apply to bishops, who extend their authority in these areas to most priests. It would seem strange to draw the line between what applies to all Christians and what applies to just to apostolic successors in the middle of a specific address. I certainly do not have the authority to bring something before the church.

We did contact the person at the diocese over family life. He responded immediately, and we will be meeting with him soon. The issue will be addressed and hopefully improve the weekend experience for future attending couples.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

We did contact the person at the diocese over family life. He responded immediately, and we will be meeting with him soon. The issue will be addressed and hopefully improve the weekend experience for future attending couples.

Gaelwynn: Please let us know how the meeting with the diocesan official goes. For years, no one believed us when we told them of our experience with Marriage Encounter. But now, with this forum, we’re convinced we didn’t have rocks in our heads after all! Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
Peace and all good

 

[sailor28]

Gaelwynn,

I pray that your meeting is fruitful and brings you the resolution you are looking for. It is unfortunate that you have had this experience. Whether it is addressed through an individual, Marriage Encounter or the office of Family Life it is important that someone listens to your experience and responds.

Peace.

This reference mentioned in Mathew raises two interesting points:

1. The Scripture referenced is describing interactions with a fellow Christian brother or sister. Does the reference extend to institutions? How can one meet privately with an institution? My issue is not with the presenters, it was with WWME practices and controls. Our situation was not isolated, so it is an institutional problem. I do not believe the Scriptural reference applies to institutions. Humans were created in the image of God and I do not believe in extending the dignity due human beings to institutions. Also the next verses talk about treatment that would not fit institutions or organizations, but only to individuals, specifically members of the Church.
2. The section of Scripture this comes from Matthew 18:15-20 is generally considered by the Church to have been addressed to the Apostles. It contains the statements about:
   a) excommunication - treating them as pagans if they will not respond to private counsel, testimony of witnesses or the church
   b) what you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven and
   c) where two of you agree on anything and ask the Father it will be granted to you.
   The later three parts of the statements in this section of Scripture are only considered to apply to bishops, who extend their authority in these areas to most priests. It would seem strange to draw the line between what applies to all Christians and what applies to just to apostolic successors in the middle of a specific address. I certainly do not have the authority to bring something before the church.

We did contact the person at the diocese over family life. He responded immediately, and we will be meeting with him soon. The issue will be addressed and hopefully improve the weekend experience for future attending couples.

 

[Eliza10]

I am SO GLAD that I just saw this thread. I really appreciate what Agustin Hippo said. Oh, and it did not bother me that the experience was 30 years ago. I guess it depends on your age. To me, 30 years ago was not so long ago! Gaelwynn’s updated bad experience goes to show that things don’t always just change on their own with time. Sometimes it stays with a founders original ideas which may not have been good to begin with.

Also its good to have posted some opposing positive experiences.

My own brother and his wife went about 20 years ago as newlyweds, and they said it was “okay” and did not seem too enthused, but my brother excused his lack of enthusiasm (I was clearly seeking a good report at the time) saying its because they already had a good marraige and already communicate all the time.

Well then, I JUST this day recommend M.E. it to a young married that I have been communicating with who became a newlywed and was baptized within this year, when, not long after her wedding, her Christian faith was awakened. Her husband whom she loves has not accepted Christianity yet so there is a divide there. She is truly walking with Our Lord and is very involved in a church (I know her online only). We share our love of Christ, and I tell her a little about Catholicism but I am also listening for if she wants to know more. Today she shared that she canceled her planned special Missions retreat, I think because she needs her husband to catch up to her a bit. He said he might want a retreat someday, and I said, maybe Marriage Encounter. Can you imagine the DISASTER to Catholicism if they experienced what Agustin and Gaelwynn did?? It could send her back years from ever looking closer at Catholicism!

I just wrote her and said “Forget M.E.! I dis-recommend it!” Phew! So I am extremely glad for this thread!! Thank you! Yes, she might have ended up with some nice people like the positive-posters here experienced, and not a hardcore collections pitch, but there is no guarantee! Anyway there is so much wrong with what is reported here that sounds too much like very similar things I saw in my old Diocese that was really, really messed up, in more ways. Terrible financial coercion techniques, for example! As a new convert. I was scandalized by our Diocesan methods of fund-raising which was manipulative fund-coercion, so immoral! I know my Evangelical Church was much more Godly and principled than my Catholic Diocese, which was instead just wrong -* evil*, really, because it misused authority of God. I shudder to think of it, and what I read here reminds me of it. (and this *is *the place to talk about it. Yes, the Matthew verse talks about individuals. Not institutions. The institution needs to take its hits because when they abuse they should not have to subject the abused to follow their line of authority to place a complaint (especially because something has already been long with the line of authority if abuses are taking place!). Wrong-doing to the general public should NOT be SECRET! It NEEDS to be public knowledge!

Back to my friend, anyway, what she really wants is a retreat to spark her husband’s heart to know Our Lord. He is willing to try one out. So it has to be GOOD! The two are compatible and communicate well - so they do not need a marraige retreat anyway, but a spiritual one. If anyone can recommend one, that would work for them, good teaching from our overflowing riches of Christian wisdom that we have in Catholicism that also respects that they are not Catholic, but instead, Christians outside of the Church, I’d appreciate it.

 

[sailor28]

I am SO GLAD that I just saw this thread. I really appreciate what Agustin Hippo said. Oh, and it did not bother me that the experience was 30 years ago. I guess it depends on your age. To me, 30 years ago was not so long ago! Gaelwynn’s updated bad experience goes to show that things don’t always just change on their own with time. Sometimes it stays with a founders original ideas which may not have been good to begin with.

Also its good to have posted some opposing positive experiences.

My own brother and his wife went about 20 years ago as newlyweds, and they said it was “okay” and did not seem too enthused, but my brother excused his lack of enthusiasm (I was clearly seeking a good report at the time) saying its because they already had a good marraige and already communicate all the time.

Well then, I JUST this day recommend M.E. it to a young married that I have been communicating with who became a newlywed and was baptized within this year, when, not long after her wedding, her Christian faith was awakened. Her husband whom she loves has not accepted Christianity yet so there is a divide there. She is truly walking with Our Lord and is very involved in a church (I know her online only). We share our love of Christ, and I tell her a little about Catholicism but I am also listening for if she wants to know more. Today she shared that she canceled her planned special Missions retreat, I think because she needs her husband to catch up to her a bit. He said he might want a retreat someday, and I said, maybe Marriage Encounter. Can you imagine the DISASTER to Catholicism if they experienced what Agustin and Gaelwynn did?? It could send her back years from ever looking closer at Catholicism!

I just wrote her and said “Forget M.E.! I dis-recommend it!” Phew! So I am extremely glad for this thread!! Thank you! Yes, she might have ended up with some nice people like the positive-posters here experienced, and not a hardcore collections pitch, but there is no guarantee! Anyway there is so much wrong with what is reported here that sounds too much like very similar things I saw in my old Diocese that was really, really messed up, in more ways. Terrible financial coercion techniques, for example! As a new convert. I was scandalized by our Diocesan methods of fund-raising which was manipulative fund-coercion, so immoral! I know my Evangelical Church was much more Godly and principled than my Catholic Diocese, which was instead just wrong -* evil*, really, because it misused authority of God. I shudder to think of it, and what I read here reminds me of it. (and this *is *the place to talk about it. Yes, the Matthew verse talks about individuals. Not institutions. The institution needs to take its hits because when they abuse they should not have to subject the abused to follow their line of authority to place a complaint (especially because something has already been long with the line of authority if abuses are taking place!). Wrong-doing to the general public should NOT be SECRET! It NEEDS to be public knowledge!

Back to my friend, anyway, what she really wants is a retreat to spark her husband’s heart to know Our Lord. He is willing to try one out. So it has to be GOOD! The two are compatible and communicate well - so they do not need a marraige retreat anyway, but a spiritual one. If anyone can recommend one, that would work for them, good teaching from our overflowing riches of Christian wisdom that we have in Catholicism that also respects that they are not Catholic, but instead, Christians outside of the Church, I’d appreciate it.

Eliza10,

Of course, nothing should be secret. I don’t think anyone was suggesting that. However, posting something online here was not going to change anything that happened to these couples. It was important to speak with someone either in the group or who can speak to the group for you.

 

[sailor28]

I wanted to share another couple’s experience on an ME weekend:

catholicandcrunchy.com/2013/11/marriage-encounter-investment-in-your.html

A quote from the link:

“For $50, we definitely will be doing that! Yes, you heard right. The entire weekend cost us $50. We did give an anonymous donation when they handed out envelopes towards the end of the weekend, but that $50 is all that’s required for lodging, food, and the retreat. They said they never turn someone away for lack of ability to pay.”

There are many different experiences with ME. My guess is that the vast majority are positive. My hope is that those who had a negative experience don’t discount that there are many couples who have had a wonderful, marriage building weekend. I can’t think of any ministry in the church that does not have people who had a negative experience with it. I could start a few threads myself. Especially one that talks about the institutional corruption in the Catholic church as a whole. Although, being an institution I feeI have little ability to change that. There is no escape from human nature.

I do hope the Office of Family life brings some resolution for the couple above who is addressing this with them, Please keep us updated on the results of your meeting. I do hope you get money refunded since you felt coerced. I am assuming that is one thing you are looking for.

For those upset about the way the financial talk is presented, do you think it would be a better idea to have a set price for everyone and no matter what that is what you pay? The reason they ask for a donation at the end is because they do not turn anyone away from the weekend. Some couples pay less than what the weekend cost and some pay more. Again, I wanted to add that we felt no pressure to give more than we could on our retreat. Perhaps it would be wise for ME to rethink their practice on this if enough people are upset about it. I know we had an anonymous survey sent to us after our retreat. Surely, they have gotten feedback on this.

 

[white_sheep]

We did engaged encounter. It was pretty sappy. Stupid waste of time.

 

[Agustin_Hippo]

I wanted to share another couple’s experience on an ME weekend:

catholicandcrunchy.com/2013/11/marriage-encounter-investment-in-your.html

A quote from the link:

“For $50, we definitely will be doing that! Yes, you heard right. The entire weekend cost us $50. We did give an anonymous donation when they handed out envelopes towards the end of the weekend, but that $50 is all that’s required for lodging, food, and the retreat. They said they never turn someone away for lack of ability to pay.”

I found the quote from catholicandcrunchy.com/20 interesting, so I read the entire article and comments. I’m glad the couple had a good time and shared it. That’s what I wrote on the original post. “I want to hear from people who love Marriage Encounter. I want to hear from people who don’t love Marriage Encounter. I want those ideas out there.”

Having said that, one commenter on the catholicandcrunchy.com/20 blog wrote:
“I do want to make sure that people know the $50 is the application fee that and is used to secure the facility, materials etc. there is a sharing in the dream donation talk at the end of the weekend because without the donations and Financial support of others, the movement would not exist and also the application fee may vary in the different areas.
no one is ever turned away from the weekend for the inability to pay.”

That’s pretty much what I was thinking- the $50 is the application fee, not the actual donation made after the “Sermon on the Amount,” also known as the “Dream Donation.”

Back before my wife and I suffered our Marriage Encounter “weekend,”
the folks who were recruiting us sent us a $10 check made out to Marriage Encounter, to cover our registration fee. Little did we know that WWME encouraged couples to send the $10 check to their victims, to give the targets that final push onto the “weekend.”
I wonder if WWME gets folks to front $50 for the non-refundable registration fee today? Inflation raised ten mid-1970s dollars to $41.67 today. Interesting. Looks like the $50 non-refundable registration fee is almost 20% above inflation. Oh, well.