Marriage finally over? When to give up?(sorry so long)

  • Thread starter Thread starter jules11
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jules as you said you have been through hell and I think that leaving him was a wise choice and a divorce may be your only option now. I will admit, my husband has a terrible temper and some of the irrational thinking more when we were first married 8 years ago, but with medication he is a new man.
He still has a temper, but no more crazy talk or accusations. I thought I was going to lose my mind many times. I prayed and prayed and told my dh that if he wanted this marriage to work, he needed help and he did get the help. He is in anger management, seeing a psychologist and psychiatist and on medications. He is going to daily Mass now and weekly confessions, mostly for the anger and the graces this sacrament brings. I am very thankful to God that things did change for I would have wanted a divorce if things didn’t or if they got to physical abuse. All my dh has ever done is hit the walls and make holes, but never me and the two times he did this he was angry at his mother. He was abused as a child and teen by his parents, but mostly his mother. I wonder if your husband’s childhood was an abusive one? Not that it matters now for you and your children. You should not have to live in fear. Fear is not from God!
nana3, thankyou for your post and for your prayers. I was very reluctant at first to post this thread but I was so distraught when I did it and I was really hoping that everyone on here would pray for me. I didn’t want to come across as a whingeing and complaining wife (that some people do accuse us of) and when you’re feeling vulnerable already, that kind of criticism can just be the last straw.
But I can feel the strength from the prayers and I truly thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. I feel so much more able to cope with things and stick to my decision. I have told my husband that our marriage is over. Not that we have a chance if he gets help as I have said that before. Because nothing will come of it. It truly is over if he doesn’t get some help.
I cannot go through this anymore. But I do think that his love for me may be enough motivation to get real help for himself. But he needs to do it for himself and not so much for me.
nana, your post does give me hope but I almost don’t want to hope anymore. My hopes always get crushed.
Your husband does sound alot like my husband, except he does not have too many angry outbursts. He tends to show his anger by ignoring me and doing nasty things (like not seeing me for New Years eve) and verbally abusing me. He doesn’t yell or scream at me. But still, it’s just as hurtful.
nana, does your husband only act this way with you? does he have seemingly normal relationships with others, like his co-workers? I don’t really understand this. He acts like a gentleman around his peers. They all think he’s wonderful.

Thankyou ALL so much for your prayers and advice.
 
This is actually very typical of abusers. They know how to behave toward the outside world, and how to make it seem as though the abused person is the crazy one. That’s part of how they maintain control over their victims.
That’s why you just have to get out of that situation, and don’t worry about what other people think. You need to get to a place of safety with your kids, where he can’t get at you. Everyone is going to look at how normal he seems, and think that you are either crazy, or the Wicked Witch of the West. But you can’t worry about that - just get yourself and your kids safe. This could mean staying where you are and just changing the locks so that he can’t get in (and not letting him in when he comes over), or it could mean moving away without telling him where you are going.
I don’t think anyone I know will look upon me badly. They know me well enough to know I wouldn’t do this lightly. He doesn’t have many friends, and he doesn’t like to be around many people. But most of my friends know we have had a lot of trouble over the years. I’m not worried about what other people think of me, except maybe that I’m an idiot for making the same mistake twice. And I do feel like a failure, afterall, I picked him. I’m not so good at judging people’s characters. I feel stupid for that.
I am living in my house, a house I bought before I met him. We separated last September after he hit me and he had to move out. He was not allowed to come to my house. He is now though, but he won’t. He lives about 5 minutes away and does not have a key to my house as I did change the locks when he was talking crazy. He won’t come over, he doesn’t threaten me like that. He will leave me alone, I know he will. He’s not normally violent so I’m not worried.
But thankyou for your care and concern.
 
Last July, after we had been separated for 3 months, he came back sobbing, begging me to take him back, saying that he would do anything, anything I wanted him to do. I said he needed to get help then and he agreed, only that he went twice and not again…
Hey, did you remain separated from him during that time? I learned from the women in my domestic violence support group that when an addict or violent man pulls this stunt, a good way to see if he is in earnest about wanting to recover is to withhold the prize until he has earned it by going to therapy for a set amount of time. Here is a plan of action used by many of the women in the group when the husband says, “Please take me back. I will do anything.”

The conditions are:
-The husband must attend _____ (therapy, classes, psychiatric sessions, etc.) x times a month for at least x months, take any prescribed medications, and then keep going to sessions however often the professional recommends.
-The wife must be informed of who the doctor/teacher/therapist is and where the sessions are held.
-The husband must sign a release authorizing the doctor to inform the wife that he has indeed attended sessions.
-When the time period is over, the husband will speak to the wife about what he has learned and she may at that time allow him to visit or “date” her and to discuss reconciliation.
-If the wife is satisfied with the progress made, reconciliation is then possible.

An abuser unwilling to make this effort is not sincere. Some insincere men will get mad as soon as they hear the conditions and refuse to comply. Some will attempt and then make excuses or abandon the effort after few days. Meanwhile, the wife and kids are safe from harm and manipulation.

This method had good results for several women in the group, so I just wanted to share it with you.
 
Hey, did you remain separated from him during that time? I learned from the women in my domestic violence support group that when an addict or violent man pulls this stunt, a good way to see if he is in earnest about wanting to recover is to withhold the prize until he has earned it by going to therapy for a set amount of time. Here is a plan of action used by many of the women in the group when the husband says, “Please take me back. I will do anything.”
The conditions are:
-The husband must attend _____ (therapy, classes, psychiatric sessions, etc.) x times a month for at least x months, take any prescribed medications, and then keep going to sessions however often the professional recommends.
-The wife must be informed of who the doctor/teacher/therapist is and where the sessions are held.
-The husband must sign a release authorizing the doctor to inform the wife that he has indeed attended sessions.
-When the time period is over, the husband will speak to the wife about what he has learned and she may at that time allow him to visit or “date” her and to discuss reconciliation.
-If the wife is satisfied with the progress made, reconciliation is then possible.
Thankyou for that. I haven’t even been entertaining the idea that we had a chance but I think that’s the hurt. But I know now that I am at a stage that it would have to be like this or NO WAY. I am prepared to make a stand, Get help and mean it or there is NO chance of reconciliation. I’ve been far too lenient in the past but not now.
Just today I told my 17yo daughter, (who lives with my mum) that the marriage was over and she responded with a sad, ‘no mum, you don’t want that.’
She does love her stepdad and so do the others but this is not good for them.
 
.Your husband does sound alot like my husband, except he does not have too many angry outbursts. He tends to show his anger by ignoring me and doing nasty things (like not seeing me for New Years eve) and verbally abusing me. He doesn’t yell or scream at me. But still, it’s just as hurtful.
nana, does your husband only act this way with you? does he have seemingly normal relationships with others, like his co-workers? I don’t really understand this. He acts like a gentleman around his peers. They all think he’s wonderful.

Thankyou ALL so much for your prayers and advice.
My husband had problems with employees when he was working. He argued with them or just did not follow orders. He was taught to obey though more in the military. I use to be in public, like a store, with him and he would go into one of his rage because he didn’t outrun someone to the cashiers to check out. I use to be so embarrassed. This was all before medications. One day at a store, he grabbed a scooter that an employee told us to take, for we did not know if someone was using it and went somewhere. We took it and about 10 minutes later a man starts to yell at us at the top of his lungs and said, "thank you very much, you are so kind to take my scooter… He was sarcastic and very angry. I tried to explain that we did not know he was using it, but he would not hear anything we had to say. After the incident, I mentioned to my husband how foolish this man looked getting angry over a scooter. My dh agreed with me and I said that is how foolish you look when you act that way. That was an eye opener for him and he did not have anymore outburst in stores. I do remember when he did, how the people would look at me and feel sorry for me. One cashier gave me a discount and said she would pray for me. I would go and cry in the car when we got into it. I have been through hell also. There are so many times he is mean in words and by yelling at me. He did not give me the silent treatment your husband gave you. I would be the one who would be silent for days afterwards instead because I was so hurt.

My husband would act this anger out for anyone who was near us if he got angry for any little thing. He would act this way with my family members as well, who all wanted me to divorce him for the sake of our daughter. I guess I stayed out of obligation to the sacrament of marriage and also because I knew there was something wrong with him mentally and he needed help. I think he would never had seen a psychiatrist if I had not insisted when he said he would do anything to fix things. Thank God he did go get help. It was not easy when he started on these medicine either for they had to find the right dose to work on him. It was like night and day when they finally got the right dose.

He has never hit me though, so I can’t say he is the same there with your husband. He is better but can still improve a lot and he knows it. He tries everyday to battle with his anger. It scared him how he treated me and our daughter when she got a little older, probably about 5 years old. He said we deserved better than him. He still is impatient, insensitive, but is also improving in these areas.

I don’t know what my husband has as far as mental illness expect for impulse control disorder. The borderline has been ruled out as well as bipolar. His brothers all act like him also and have never been diagnosed either. I know my mother-in-law had to put my husband in an adolescent mental health center due to not being able to control him. His dad took him out when my dh called him. His parents are divorced and are now married to other people. His dad has something wrong with him also unless it is just plain rude behavior, verbal abuse, that they learned from their parents.

I don’t mean to give you hope so that you will stay married to your husband. But if you want to think that he could someday get better, than have that hope, but you do need to divorce this man who has abused you physically as well as emotionally, verbally and mentally. NO woman or person should have to go through that.
 
Sorry, didn’t answer your question. We were seperated from April to July. He came back in July, then in September he hit me and we have been seperated since then. He now lives not far from me. We had been trying to resolve things and I had looked at myself and my part in our problems but I don’t think he took as much responsibilty as he should have. It will be all different now.
 
I don’t know what my husband has as far as mental illness expect for impulse control disorder. The borderline has been ruled out as well as bipolar. His brothers all act like him also and have never been diagnosed either. I know my mother-in-law had to put my husband in an adolescent mental health center due to not being able to control him. His dad took him out when my dh called him. His parents are divorced and are now married to other people. His dad has something wrong with him also unless it is just plain rude behavior, verbal abuse, that they learned from their parents.
So he was abused as a child? My husband was. He was hated by his mother and his sister is very similar. But i think mostly it was bad behaviour that was learned. But he doesn’t act this way with other people or in public which makes me think it is far more sinister. If your husband acts in public as he does with you, then it is more obvious that there is a mental illness but my husband knows how to treat other people well.
I don’t mean to give you hope so that you will stay married to your husband. But if you want to think that he could someday get better, than have that hope, but you do need to divorce this man who has abused you physically as well as emotionally, verbally and mentally. NO woman or person should have to go through that.
No, I only meant that if he was on medication and improved that we could have a chance but don’t worry, I’m not holding my breath. I will take each day as it comes and pray that God sees me through. I only hope in God, not in him. I do not deserve the abuse and I will not put up with it anymore. If it is obvious that he has no desire to change, then I will be getting a divorce. But here in Australia, you have to be separated for a year before you can file for a divorce. So that will be September.
 
Jules,
Has he seen a doctor? Sounds like he may need to. I am gonna be different than everyone else here and point out that you are in a good position. Yup, that’s right I said a GOOD position. If he is trying to make up with you, you are in the power position. You can ask him to go see a doctor, go to marriage counselling, etc. What is the worst he can say? No? You are already prepared for that. How about a retrouville weekend?

It really sounds like he may need medication or counselling… why not try that route first? Isn’t a marriage worth trying everything? I know the pain of divorce…been there done that and quite frankly…wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy!

Pray about it…
Jules,
I’ll be one who says “don’t give up on your marriage”. I was the most terrible wife any guy could have, mood swings, threatening, verbal abuse, etc. DH forgave me everytime when I would apologize after putting our family through hell.
What happened is that the dr. put me on Lexapro, which controls drastic mood swings. I can honestly say that that medicine changed my life. I can hardly believe who I was then and who I am now.
Don’t give up! Forgive your husband - it may not be entirely his fault…and tell him about Lexapro. Lexapro can sometimes make you feel “funny” at first but as soon as it is in your system, mood swings disappear. I have no mood swings now, no angry temper tantrums…just a deep sorrow for what I put my DH and family through before.
It sounds like your husband wants to make up but the mood swings are killing you both.
Give Lexapro, and more forgiveness, a try.
Lissa
 
Jules,
I’ll be one who says “don’t give up on your marriage”. I was the most terrible wife any guy could have, mood swings, threatening, verbal abuse, etc. DH forgave me everytime when I would apologize after putting our family through hell.
What happened is that the dr. put me on Lexapro, which controls drastic mood swings. I can honestly say that that medicine changed my life. I can hardly believe who I was then and who I am now.
Don’t give up! Forgive your husband - it may not be entirely his fault…and tell him about Lexapro. Lexapro can sometimes make you feel “funny” at first but as soon as it is in your system, mood swings disappear. I have no mood swings now, no angry temper tantrums…just a deep sorrow for what I put my DH and family through before.
It sounds like your husband wants to make up but the mood swings are killing you both.
Give Lexapro, and more forgiveness, a try.
Lissa
Thankyou for that. I have forgiven him many many times but he does not seem to think that he does anything wrong.
So I don’t think that he would be quick to go and get help. I am starting to think that it’s not completely his fault but he still needs to be the one to do something about it. He needs to take the initiative to see a doctor and nothing I say or do can make him do that. He has to be willing to do it on his own.
I can only hope that he will. Thanks and God bless
 
As things stand at the moment, I have told him that unless he gets help, the marriage is over. His answer to that is, ‘go to hell’. He has a great deal of pride and he would rather let this go than to admit he has a problem, but I can be pretty sure that in a few months time he will be back wanting to work it out and promising me the world. He still will not tell me his side of the story, will not defend himself or his anger or explain it in any way. He seems to think I’m a mind reader and should know what this is all about, but I just don’t.
He won’t fight for the marriage and has just taken me at my word that we’re finished. It’s all so frustrating and I know that he has convinced himself that it’s ALL MY FAULT.
Please keep praying for us, especially that I keep my sanity through all this and my children aren’t affected too much.
Thankyou.
 
Does he have rages? could be borderline or bipolar or both.
Is he an addict? What symptoms might he be self-medicating?
If he will not allow help, you may have to cut him loose. You can get an annulment. Sad, though, and you have my sympathy.
Knowing what is going on can be very empowering and give you a toehold on reality and a place to begin in deciding your course of action.
Thankyou for the links shirleytowers. I looked them up and they were very helpful. It certainly seems that he has a personality disorder. He identifies with quite a few of the symptoms listed.
 
If your husband was abused as a child, then it affected him and he may have a personality disorder. It is too bad that he doesn’t want to get help and admit he has a problem. I will be the first to say that my husband also thought it was all my fault, but when he saw that he could lose me, he went and got help and took his medications. My husband is very stubborn and still is, but is better than he was while not on medication. I will say in his defenses and others who have these problems, they are very grateful for their love ones who hang in there and keep forgiving them, as one person already said to this thread. I read this book, when I thought my husband was borderline, called Stop Walking on Eggshells by Mason Kreger. In this book there were letters from borderlines who thanked God for their spouses who hanged in therewith them before they were diagnosis. Some got better and led normal lives, but they had to confront their past abuse and childhood. My husband took a long time for this, or at least long for me. We have been married now 8 years and it has only been towards the end of 2006 that he is looking at forgiving his mother, he forgave his dad years ago. He tried many times to talk to his mother, but she has her own mental illness and literally freaks out when he mentioned any of his concerns. She has really hurt him the most. When he went into the seminary to study to be a priest, he gave him hell over it and called him crying saying that he was making the biggest mistake of his life. He had a love-hate relationship with her. She was abuse in a broading school that was all CAtholic and had nuns as teachers. She hated the Church and priest and nuns. She was abused as a child. See the cycle did not start with your husband, but he does need to face his childhood and his anger and forgive all those who have hurt him. It takes a long time for some. I have noticed a decrease in anger since my husband has forgiven his mother.

He was also very remorseful after exploding at me and felt like dirt. He would call himself these names, horrible names. I would not call him these, but he would call himself these. His self esteem was very low. This is all why I thought he did have borderline. The only symptom he did not have was self mutilation. He would hit his head with his fist hard, really hard, when he was angry or go into a rage.

I agree with you that you can give your husband the option to try to get help to help save the marriage, but from your last response, it doesn’t sound like he wants to work things out. I am looking into narsasistic personality disorder now with my husband, but don’t really think he has this for he is very selfish and blames me alot, but will admit when he is wrong. I just find it hard to believe that all he has is impulse control disorder, but that would explain when he would get angry in public. I will say also that he did behave nicer in front of others more than with me. He just had self control problems. I do feel sorry for him and I think that is why I did not give up on him even though I really wanted to leave the many times he would be yelling at the top of his lungs at me or was irrational.

Let me give you an example of his irrational behavior that I had to deal with all before medications. Thank God no more, or I would have had a divorce. About 7 years ago he was a student and taking some college courses. Our daughter was a newborn just a couple of months old. He was up all night studying. He came to bed about 2:30am, and that is when the baby started to cry. I went to the kitchen to heat the formula up to give to my daughter. He came to the kitchen in a rage and this is what he said, I will never forget," You are preventing me from getting sleep. You and Mariana are purposely trying to make me fail my classes. I need sleep, can’t you shut her up!" He saw me getting the bottle ready and doing what I could. I was not, and our daughter was certainly not, trying to make him fail his class by preventing him from getting sleep. This was on incident of many that were not normal. His psychiatrist would not believe me how he could get until one day he exploded and I remembered that I had a mini tape recorder out. I took it and hit the record button. I played that for his doctor and they tried other medications and treating him differently. He came across as calm to them and he blamed me for everything. But after that tape, they knew he had a problem. I have been through hell also and know what suffering you have had and are having. Thank God thought that my husband never has hit me. The closest was he pushed me to get to my daughter and I was defending her. Boy, I hated those days and would not want them back at all.

I will keep praying for the both of you and God to heal both of your broken hearts.
 
I’m very sorry things are not going well for you. We all want what is best for ourselves, and an intimate relationship of body, mind and soul with someone of the opposite sex is human contentment and peace. We seek it out. We only have one life, and we don’t want to pass on a potential opportunity for peace, and that could be what you are doing if you stay with your husband. You point out that an unhealthy marriage provides a poor example for your children. I agree. It is worse than the poor example of a divorce.

Your husband’s actions could be the result of illness as some pointed out. However, I am cynical and suspect a sinister motive. He may have learned that he would not fare too well in a divorce proceeding. Consequently, it is to his benefit to attempt to mask his intentions with the occasional “I’m sorry.” Keep in mind, a person who is sorry is able to articulate why they are sorry, what they are sorry for doing, and the affect of their actions.

If you contact the local Archdiocese, they may be able to recommend a counselor. You should see the same counselor separately at first, and then together. Counselors can recognize mental illness and if that’s the case, recommend someone to correct the problem. They can also see through deceit.

I recommend you exhaust this alternative in short order, if you haven’t already. If he declines to participate, you will always know that you tried and will leave the marriage with no unresolved issues. It will be he that left the marriage. There was something in him that you saw when you first married. If that something can be recovered you will be satisfied. If it’s unrecoverable, you need to move on with your life. Turn your marriage over to an attorney, and let the attorney do what’s best for you. Listen to the attorney and not your heart. You’ve already listened to your heart trying to save the marriage.

However, if things don’t work out, do find it in your heart to forgive him. That does not mean take him back. It means to forgive him, to not hold a grudge against him. Forgiveness will set you free from him.

Best regards,
 
Let me give you an example of his irrational behavior that I had to deal with all before medications. Thank God no more, or I would have had a divorce. About 7 years ago he was a student and taking some college courses. Our daughter was a newborn just a couple of months old. He was up all night studying. He came to bed about 2:30am, and that is when the baby started to cry. I went to the kitchen to heat the formula up to give to my daughter. He came to the kitchen in a rage and this is what he said, I will never forget," You are preventing me from getting sleep. You and Mariana are purposely trying to make me fail my classes. I need sleep, can’t you shut her up!" He saw me getting the bottle ready and doing what I could. I was not, and our daughter was certainly not, trying to make him fail his class by preventing him from getting sleep. This was on incident of many that were not normal. His psychiatrist would not believe me how he could get until one day he exploded and I remembered that I had a mini tape recorder out. I took it and hit the record button. I played that for his doctor and they tried other medications and treating him differently. He came across as calm to them and he blamed me for everything. But after that tape, they knew he had a problem. I have been through hell also and know what suffering you have had and are having. Thank God thought that my husband never has hit me. The closest was he pushed me to get to my daughter and I was defending her. Boy, I hated those days and would not want them back at all.
I will keep praying for the both of you and God to heal both of your broken hearts.
nana, this sounds almost identical to a situation that happened when our 15mo was about 6 months old. My husband had a migraine (he gets them regularly) and he was in bed. I had been to mass that morning and we had a family picnic on afterwards. He didn’t come to mass with us that day and I thought the longer I stayed out the better. He would have time to sleep it off and hopefully feel better. Well I came home at about 3.30 pm and our baby hadn’t slept all day, so I went into our room to put him to bed, (his cot was in there) and he cried a bit. I tried to be as quiet as I could but my husband got out of bed in a rage and called me all sorts of names because he said I purposely tried to wake him up and I was just being spiteful!
Sometimes it doesn’t matter how nice I am, he still thinks I’m out to make his life a misery.

It was very clever of you to record one of your husbands outbursts. I tend to write down what happens as mine is more verbal abuse and nasty text messages.

I think it will take him a long time to get over his pride but he does love me in his own way and he will come back in time and want to make the marriage work.
If and when that happens, I will insist, as another poster here said, that he fufil certain conditions before I will even consider it. I do feel very sorry for him as he has noone else in his life and noone that has ever loved him as much as I have. His own mother hated him but loved his two sisters. His father left when he was three and his stepfather beat him regularly until he was strong enough to fight back one day.
He has been married twice before me and I was led to believe that they were the bad ones as they both had affairs. Now I think that he must had driven them to it (not that i am condoning affairs) but he has constantly accused me of affairs over the years. And usually over simple little things like, me going out shopping and him not being able to contact me so he thinks I’m with another man.

Anyway I feel better knowing that there is some kind of mental illness, which one, I’m not really sure but I know that we cannot have any kind of normal marriage unless he gets help and I may be waiting a very long time.
Thankyou for your prayers.
 
I agree with Nana3 that it sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. I would also recommend the book “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me”. Also, I don’t know how old the nephew is, but if he is much younger, I would think that it is very odd for a grown man to stay up all night playing games with a kid.
 
You cannot help him if he won’t cooperate. As I said before, you have to cut him loose if this is his attitude. Pray for the Lord to change his heart and help him heal. Your husband isn’t in his right mind and wasn’t when you married.

An annulment s in order if he cannot go for help.

I know this sounds harsh. But take it from me, **you have to know when to quit. ** Don’t do what I did, and waste 20 years on someone incapable of a relationship and of being a good parent. The Lord does not want you to subject your children to this, IMO.

His attitude might change…give it a bit of time, but not more than a few months. At his age you cannot make him do anything.

Children who have inherited mental disorders have their symptoms magnified when the grow up with either mentally ill parents OR abuse. Both, and you have a double trouble super major problem.
 
You do have to know when to quit. Statistically women leave men because of neglect very easily and generally have a harder time leaving because of abuse. If he is abusive and there is no hope of him getting better, than even though it may be hard and take courage and resolve, leaving is the absolute right thing to do.
 
Yes, I do have to know when to give up and I guess that’s why I posted this thread. I can give up but I don’t think he ever will. He will always be in my life as we have a son together but also because he knows that I am the only one in his life who has ever really loved him. He will come back after some time, when he can’t take it anymore but I will insist he get help or no chance. I wonder why people like this who live in misery and turmoil wouldn’t want to get the help to make themselves feel better? It just is so strange to me as I would do it in an instant if I thought I could be happy again. I suppose it’s part of the disorder?
I just don’t know.
Anyway, we have had little contact over the past few days. He seems to be just playing the game. Agreeing with me that it’s over. Not trying to discuss anything, not trying to explain not wanting to work it out. It’s his pride now making him act this way and also that he loves to play the victim, he would see this as me ending it, me doing the wrong.
But I am just trying to get through. God is carrying me I know, because sometimes I feel so low and the thoughts of what we could have are so painful that I know without God’s grace, I wouldn’t be able to function.
Thankyou all for your replies and your prayers.
 
He is very manipulative, it looks to me like.

Yes, this is part of it.

Go on with your life. The only person who can help him is him, and he is not rational.

Do not allow yourself to be sucked into the vortex of his illness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top