- Status
I have a plan, and I need wife to make it alive
This is a problem. If you only married your wife to fulfill “your plan” then the marriage is not going to last.
I really hope you didn’t marry the woman from your last thread because you sounded like your heart wasn’t in it at all. If this is the case, then that is the problem.
Judging by your previous posts you sound like you don’t understand and misinterpret the Church teaching on marriage.
This is a problem. If you only married your wife to fulfill “your plan” then the marriage is not going to last.
I really hope you didn’t marry the woman from your last thread because you sounded like your heart wasn’t in it at all. If this is the case, then that is the problem.
Judging by your previous posts you sound like you don’t understand and misinterpret the Church teaching on marriage.
S
ShrodingersCat
Guest
I don’t believe in “true vocation” in the sense that there is one path in life that will make you happy and the others will not.
Even if you do believe in that, your vocation changes with circumstance. Your vocation now is as a husband; nothing else matters so there is no point in worrying about the past.
You posted this several months ago.
I really hope you didn’t marry this girl.
If you did, I feel sorry for her. You’ve done her a grave disservice if you did.
I really think that if this is the case your behaviour toward this woman is very likely sinful.
Marry her even though you feel like you should not and are divided about whether you love her or not.
Delay for no good reason, consummation of the marriage.
Now you’re married and you seem like you would have preferred a celibate vocation.
Like it or not, your vocation now is marriage. You are a married man and now, man up and love your wife. You made the decision to marry her.
Deal with it.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. Ironically, the very fact that he is already looking for a way out could be seen as proof that he never intended to honour the marriage vows/didn’t understand them, if his wife were ever to seek annulment.
I
Irishmom2
Guest
“I am not treating her like a thing.” Yes, you actually are.
“My wife will never make me happy and I would be an idiot to think otherwise (Jer 17:7). She is just a co-worker.”
I can’t even begin to tell you how offensive that is. You think you did her some kind of favor or something by marrying her?
I don’t even know why you married this woman if this is how you feel.
“My wife will never make me happy and I would be an idiot to think otherwise (Jer 17:7). She is just a co-worker.”
I can’t even begin to tell you how offensive that is. You think you did her some kind of favor or something by marrying her?
I don’t even know why you married this woman if this is how you feel.
Right.
In fairness, reading this poster’s threads again is just making me sad. It’s depressing to think that somewhere, this guy has married a woman he doesn’t love out of some misguided sense of charity, and wants to have kids with her.
Poor woman. Poor Kids.
There are enough bad marriages in the world without this nonsense.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
OK, I think you are both making some honest mistakes here. It is OK if it takes the two of you some time to get over the long-time resistance you have had to maintain in order to remain chaste prior to marriage.
Yes, you did marry because of sex, but in the sense that when you married you gave your wife the right to expect you to fulfill your duty of giving yourself to her sexually and vice versa. Not any time one of you wants, as if you were slaves, but the marital debt is a real debt, all the same. A body needs what a body needs, and you need to be one body.
Let’s look at a few prescriptions of canon law (The underline and associated boldface is mine, obviously)
*Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.
**§2. **For this reason, a valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between the baptized without it being by that fact a sacrament.
**Can. 1061 §1. **A valid marriage between the baptized is called ratum tantum if it has not been consummated; it is called ratum et consummatum if the spouses have performed between themselves in a human fashion a conjugal act which is suitable in itself for the procreation of offspring, to which marriage is ordered by its nature and by which the spouses become one flesh.
§2. After a marriage has been celebrated, if the spouses have lived together consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven…
Can. 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.
§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null…
Can. 1096 §1. For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.
**§2. **This ignorance is not presumed after puberty.
**
Can. 1134 **From a valid marriage there arises between the spouses a bond which by its nature is perpetual and exclusive. Moreover, a special sacrament strengthens and, as it were, consecrates the spouses in a Christian marriage for the duties and dignity of their state.
Can. 1135 Each spouse has an equal duty **and **right to those things which belong to the partnership of conjugal life.
and let us look at what Holy Scriptures have to say about the status of your wife:
*Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.
“For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh*.”
This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself… (Eph 5:25-33a)
So you see, it is really besides the point whether or not you find sex an overly-consuming interest or of no interest to you at all. When you marry, your sex life is not about you. Your sex life is about giving yourself to your wife and becoming one flesh with her in totality–emotionally, spiritually and physically–in accordance with Almighty God’s perfect plan for humankind:
The LORD God said: It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suited to him…The LORD God then built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman. When he brought her to the man, the man said:
“This one, at last, is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
This one shall be called ‘woman,’
for out of man this one has been taken.”
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.
Gen. 2:18, 22-24
Do you see that when God defined “a helper suited to” you, He did not stop at a person outside yourself who is “just a co-worker”? Excuse me, but anyone with a seeing eye dog can tell you that even an animal can be more than “just a co-worker.” No, God intended for our spouses to become one with us even to the point of becoming Christ and his Church in miniature!! Sexual relations are not called the consummation of marriage for nothing! The consummation is the point at which something becomes complete. Until you and your wife give yourselves to each other sexual consummation, your obedience to your marriage vows is incomplete, unfulfilled.
And yes, let go of the “still cancelled by the pope” thing. If your attempt at marriage is null, it is null. It is foolish to duck your duties as a way to play the system and keep one foot out the door. If either of you two think you have honestly misunderstood what the duties and essence of marriage is–hard to believe if you have been prepared by your priest, but possible–then go straight to the priest who married you and get that cleared up one way or another right away. Do not play little games like that with a sacrament.*
Yes, you did marry because of sex, but in the sense that when you married you gave your wife the right to expect you to fulfill your duty of giving yourself to her sexually and vice versa. Not any time one of you wants, as if you were slaves, but the marital debt is a real debt, all the same. A body needs what a body needs, and you need to be one body.
Let’s look at a few prescriptions of canon law (The underline and associated boldface is mine, obviously)
*Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.
**§2. **For this reason, a valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between the baptized without it being by that fact a sacrament.
**Can. 1061 §1. **A valid marriage between the baptized is called ratum tantum if it has not been consummated; it is called ratum et consummatum if the spouses have performed between themselves in a human fashion a conjugal act which is suitable in itself for the procreation of offspring, to which marriage is ordered by its nature and by which the spouses become one flesh.
§2. After a marriage has been celebrated, if the spouses have lived together consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven…
Can. 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.
§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null…
Can. 1096 §1. For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.
**§2. **This ignorance is not presumed after puberty.
**
Can. 1134 **From a valid marriage there arises between the spouses a bond which by its nature is perpetual and exclusive. Moreover, a special sacrament strengthens and, as it were, consecrates the spouses in a Christian marriage for the duties and dignity of their state.
Can. 1135 Each spouse has an equal duty **and **right to those things which belong to the partnership of conjugal life.
and let us look at what Holy Scriptures have to say about the status of your wife:
*Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.
“For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh*.”
This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself… (Eph 5:25-33a)
So you see, it is really besides the point whether or not you find sex an overly-consuming interest or of no interest to you at all. When you marry, your sex life is not about you. Your sex life is about giving yourself to your wife and becoming one flesh with her in totality–emotionally, spiritually and physically–in accordance with Almighty God’s perfect plan for humankind:
The LORD God said: It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suited to him…The LORD God then built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman. When he brought her to the man, the man said:
“This one, at last, is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
This one shall be called ‘woman,’
for out of man this one has been taken.”
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.
Gen. 2:18, 22-24
Do you see that when God defined “a helper suited to” you, He did not stop at a person outside yourself who is “just a co-worker”? Excuse me, but anyone with a seeing eye dog can tell you that even an animal can be more than “just a co-worker.” No, God intended for our spouses to become one with us even to the point of becoming Christ and his Church in miniature!! Sexual relations are not called the consummation of marriage for nothing! The consummation is the point at which something becomes complete. Until you and your wife give yourselves to each other sexual consummation, your obedience to your marriage vows is incomplete, unfulfilled.
And yes, let go of the “still cancelled by the pope” thing. If your attempt at marriage is null, it is null. It is foolish to duck your duties as a way to play the system and keep one foot out the door. If either of you two think you have honestly misunderstood what the duties and essence of marriage is–hard to believe if you have been prepared by your priest, but possible–then go straight to the priest who married you and get that cleared up one way or another right away. Do not play little games like that with a sacrament.*
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Here is the huge paradox, after all of that serious stuff:
What you really need is to find a way to relax. You need to relax about what you’re experiencing in prayer, you need to relax about how and when you and your wife are going to work out the consummation of your marriage, you need to just…relax. Come away for awhile. Rest. Deep breath in, deep breath out, all the tension letting go…aaaaah. Relax.
Talk to the priest who married you, but most of all, remember the most-common words that God sends to humankind: Fear not. You can trust and feel secure. You can relax. This will work out.
What you really need is to find a way to relax. You need to relax about what you’re experiencing in prayer, you need to relax about how and when you and your wife are going to work out the consummation of your marriage, you need to just…relax. Come away for awhile. Rest. Deep breath in, deep breath out, all the tension letting go…aaaaah. Relax.
Talk to the priest who married you, but most of all, remember the most-common words that God sends to humankind: Fear not. You can trust and feel secure. You can relax. This will work out.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Several thoughts:
- I assume there’s no marriage prep in Poland?
- I hope and pray you didn’t marry her because you felt "sorry " for her.
- You have a very distorted view of marriage and the marital embrace
- If you’re hedging your bets and hoping for an annulment, don’t delay. It will only get worse for HER, and frankly, she is the one who has been greatly wronged if you mean what you say. Your previous posts demonstrate that you’re not able to commit to her.
- See the priest who married you immediately.
- I hope I’m wrong and English not being your native language is incorrectly presenting your thoughts.
- I’m praying for this poor woman.
That sounds so odd
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Remember that he said, “Another reason is my wife who needs some time to get through this barrier, too. She is a virgin so that is a big event for her.”
It is understandable for two people who have been faithful in chastity prior to marriage might have this difficulty in switching their perception of sex. Not everyone does, but it is hardly that unusual. What was forbidden is now suddenly both a great good and duty! That is a big change. Patience is in order. They should not be afraid, but try to be patient, to relax, to learn to dare to enjoy each other’s company and intimacy in every way, as Heaven intends they ought to do.
Perhaps they might read Tobit, especially this:
*When the girl’s parents left the bedroom and closed the door behind them, Tobiah arose from bed and said to his wife, “My love, get up. Let us pray and beg our Lord to have mercy on us and to grant us deliverance.” She got up, and they started to pray and beg that deliverance might be theirs. He began with these words:
“Blessed are you, O God of our fathers; praised be your name forever and ever.
Let the heavens and all your creation praise you forever.
You made Adam and you gave him his wife Eve to be his help and support;
and from these two the human race descended.
You said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone; let us make him a partner like himself.’
Now, Lord, you know that I take this wife of mine not because of lust,
but for a noble purpose.
Call down your mercy on me and on her,
and allow us to live together to a happy old age.”
They said together, “Amen, amen,”
…
Then Raguel praised the God of heaven in these words:
“Blessed are you, O God, with every holy and pure blessing!
Let all your chosen ones praise you; let them bless you forever!
Blessed are you, who have made me glad; what I feared did not happen.
Rather you have dealt with us according to your great mercy.
Blessed are you, for you were merciful toward two only children.
Grant them, Master, mercy and deliverance,
and bring their lives to fulfillment with happiness and mercy.”*
Tobit 8: 4-8, 15-17
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Yes, but some do find this difficult. It is not that unusual. Fear of not being able to fulfill the duties of marriage is not that unusual. He does need correction, he is misunderstanding, but he is newly married, he is finding the adjustment difficult, and we need to be careful not to berate him. I would say most of us went through something, if not this exact thing. Not everyone, but enough of us.
Most people don’t defer consummation for no real reason. Have you read his other posts.
S
STF
Guest
I did, but that post was in March (or so) and our relationship and my view towards it has evolved multiple times since, so please do not draw conclusions from the previous thread as they will very likely be wrong. I did not marry her out of compassion for her, really.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Every one of us is something other than “most people” some of the time.
Who has ever been helped with a sexual problem by being berated? It takes a great deal of trust and the willingness to accept vulnerability to accept intimacy as we are intended to accept it in marriage.
Yes, of course it is necessary for him to accept that obedience to his state in life requires absolute open-heartedness in the marital bed. No, it is not OK to withhold sex from your spouse. Yes, even considering leaving any leeway in order to allow for some plea for nullity later is out of place. Yes, even if his wife is having her own difficulties in accepting the need to consummate their marriage, his unwillingness could be causing her to suffer.
Having said that, I do not think his pastor or the priest who helped him and his wife prepare for marriage is going to berate him or her or them. I don’t think there is much question that this is a problem that will be solved by mercy and encouragement. More to the point, getting all cranked up about this could do harm to their marriage. They’ll do better to take a deep breath, choose optimism, trust in God to be their help, and relax.
S
STF
Guest
Please explain.
I am aleady suffering for her to some extent, and I do it for her and for our union (difficult family relations). Would you suffer for a thing?
Please do.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Would Christ say to His Bride, “she is just a co-worker”? No. See Ephesians 5: one body, one life, her happiness more important to you than your own. That is the thing. You do not say of your wife, “My wife will never make me happy and I would be an idiot to think otherwise.” I know how you mean that, but you have to be careful. When you say, “Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose hope is the Lord,” remember also that the Holy Scriptures also says, “When one finds a worthy wife, her value is far beyond pearls. Her husband, entrusting his heart to her, has an unfailing prize.” (Prov. 31:10-11) and “Charm is deceptive and beauty fleeting; the woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.” (Prov. 31:30)
Suffering is not redemptive in and of itself. When you are willing to suffer for someone else, it is not the amount of pain you go through that counts. It is the degree to which you forget your own hurts and your own goals and think of how she is doing. How do you think it feels to marry someone who has a Plan B in case he decides he wants to make an early exit? That is a form of rejection. You don’t reject someone you love; the two don’t go together.
Please–talk to your pastor about this. Do it alone, so you can be entirely frank about your own fears and your own feelings without saying anything that will hurt your wife. Careless words like saying you’d be an idiot to think she could bring you happiness do real harm. If you do not get that, ask your priest to explain it to you.
- Status