Marriage hurt by pornography

[Tighty_Whitey]

You originally wrote “Sex/porn addiction has its roots in a desire to not be known by anyone.” It sounds like what you are trying to say is really the reverse - the desire to avoid being known is a consequence of the addiction, not its cause.

I don’t believe that I was seeking to discuss cause and effect. Sex addicts are made, not born. The addict has suffered some harm, some trauma, some deep rooted need that did not get met. The addict experiences a release or an escape from that hurt, a hurt that they were not likely conscious of at the time, that is relieved by the addiction.

I wish I had a few letters behind my name like, Ph.d and the like, but my post is from my experience so it is worth very penny I’m charging for it!

 

[The_Bucket]

I’ll chime in and agree from experience. My father was and still is an addict. All I knew about was the serial porn use as a child and it caused me great mental anguish. As did the incredibly strained marriage he had and still has.

Didn’t find out until a few months ago that the reason for many of the moves we had as a kid was due to adultery. Good times. That’s been a fantastic wrench thrown into my own situation, but by God’s grace I’ve stayed on track. I’m sure the next time I see him in person will be swell.

 

[louisak]

The addict has suffered some harm, some trauma, some deep rooted need that did not get met.

No doubt that is true for many. But my point is that in the current pornography-saturated environment, anyone can get addicted - regardless of whether or not they fit your description.

 

[The_Bucket]

No doubt that is true for many. But my point is that in the current pornography-saturated environment, anyone can get addicted - regardless of whether or not they fit your description.

I think this is true to some degree. But I also think that there are plenty of men and women who watch and do not become addicted. The sin is equal but the dependence on it is not. The sin will corrode marriages if left unchecked, even if the spouses do not think porn is sinful, but it does not always create an addiction.

Addicts are indeed born out of trauma as the compulsion to use is the same no matter if it’s booze, drugs or sex. Plenty of people can drink on occasion and not become dependent. People can use drugs and drop them like it’s no big deal. Some folks can go out and have casual flings or watch porn and not become addicted to this behavior. Again, I’m not condoning it from a moral perspective, I’m simply saying that some people will become addicted and some people will not.

I think perhaps the most salient point is that the omnipresence of porn in today’s culture makes it far more likely that someone susceptible to becoming addicted to it will indeed become addicted to it. In past generations perhaps they would be somewhat inoculated from this addiction.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

No doubt that is true for many. But my point is that in the current pornography-saturated environment, anyone can get addicted - regardless of whether or not they fit your description.

I think The Bucket has done a good job with this reply. There’s no doubt that it is much easier to act out in this addiction then at any time before and that more and more people are identifying themselves as addicts. But an experienced counselor can likely listen to someone’s history and figure out what addiction they are most susceptable too. The wand picks the wizard. There’s a huge debate that could sidetrack this thread over, co-addictions, substitute addictions, primary addictions etc. I still stick with what I believe to be true, that a sex addict does not want to be known and will have a very diffucult time experiencing true intimacy without working a program of recovery.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

No doubt that is true for many. But my point is that in the current pornography-saturated environment, anyone can get addicted - regardless of whether or not they fit your description.

Although TW’s comments have their merits, I’d have to agree with you on that. Although a lot of my family & friends would disagree, my peers and I were surrounded by porn from an early age. I had relatives who left stacks of Playboys around the house when the family came over all through the 70s. By the time I was 13 everyone had a VCR and it was now the half a dozen VHS tapes full of movies that made their rounds from house to house (it was thanks to those that I can p(name removed by moderator)oint the exact instant this became a problem for me). Most of my friends grew up in similar environments, and by the time the internet arrived, all my peers either had a stash of videos, a stack of magazines or both. Some never ended up with a full-blown problems, others did and most still pretend it’s not an issue. Even my wife grew up dealing with similar surroundings; her mother would rent videos for her and her girlfriends when she had slumber parties (needless to say, she was shocked when my wife ended up pregnant at 16). Sadly, because it was so accepted by almost everyone we both knew, my wife didn’t say a word about it until years after we were married, and then didn’t raise any real objections until years after that. I’m not placing any blame on her or saying that would have helped the situation, but trying to illustrate that, thanks to how prevalent it is, it’s very easy for a wronged spouse to go years without seeing it as an actual problem. As I pointed out earlier, the fact that it was such an accepted part of life made it so I didn’t any understanding of the effect it had had on me and my marriage until I was forced to go without it.

Something that frustrates me immensely now is that there’s still almost nobody in my life who sees it as an issue. Not counting my wife, a grand total of four people backed me up when I objected my son going to a strip club for his birthday. I had a couple people quit talking to me for a time over that, and others who have cut ties permanently because I asked them not to send me pornographic emails and texts. Even my friend who can’t be intimate with his wife without a video playing insists that the porn has nothing to do with it, and is angry with me for how I view it now (his wife, for the record, doesn’t agree with him). These attitudes, our secularized/anti-religious society and the over-saturation of porn and sexualized imagery makes recovery a really steep climb.

 

[The_Bucket]

There were moments I experienced real intimacy with my wife. I was “sober” from the worst of it for awhile. Senior year of college all through the first couple years of my marriage. But I still had the self-loathing, the constant white-knuckling, the needing to be distracted by exercise or crisis management (we had a few medical crises that did not knock me into addiction again but did turn me into an emotional infant).

But I did not experience love the way it’s supposed to be. Sure, I’d say I’d die for her and probably I would have. But would I do chores thanklessly? Would I buy her flowers and get nothing in return? Would I pray for her constantly and be OK with sleeping on the couch because she just wasn’t ready for me even being in the bed yet? Would I STILL pray and STILL be ok with going on the couch even after coming back just because I said or did something that reminded her of how I used to be?

That’s dying to self in just very small ways compared to what Christ’s love is. I have yet to even scratch the surface of His example. I still constantly battle with selfish impulses and resentment even though I caused the problem in the first place! My wife is an extremely giving and selfless person and I basically ran roughshod over her emotions and mental well-being for two years. It’s gonna take time for that to heal. And I have to constantly remind myself that even though I’m sober now, the damage done to her and to myself still lingers. It’s no one’s fault other than my own and I can’t fix it. Only God can and it will only be done in His time.

 

[The_Bucket]

Something that frustrates me immensely now is that there’s still almost nobody in my life who sees it as an issue. Not counting my wife, a grand total of four people backed me up when I objected my son going to a strip club for his birthday. I had a couple people quit talking to me for a time over that, and others who have cut ties permanently because I asked them not to send me pornographic emails and texts. Even my friend who can’t be intimate with his wife without a video playing insists that the porn has nothing to do with it, and is angry with me for how I view it now (his wife, for the record, doesn’t agree with him). These attitudes, our secularized/anti-religious society and the over-saturation of porn and sexualized imagery makes recovery a really steep climb.

That’s pretty messed up man. Hilariously, strip clubs or any conversation, real or cyber, was a line I didn’t cross. Refused to cross. Would never do it. Of course, that was probably mostly out of fear of being discovered and having my own hypocrisy exposed. True, I had a moral objection to it but I also had moral objections to porn and that didn’t stop me from consuming it.

But yeah, I gather your point on the extreme saturation. It does cause discord even in marriages where there’s no full-blown addiction. And addiction manifests itself in different ways; your friend’s case is one extreme. My extreme was emotional abuse of everyone around me due to extreme anger and anxiety.

It’s all so insanely messed up I genuinely have no idea how I lived.

 

[clem456]

So, based on what I’ve gleaned so far … let’s see if this is an accurate picture of how things are …

My husband’s brain has been rewired from the porn use, but it is possible for him to overcome the addiction. Sometimes, other women will catch his eye, but it has nothing to do with me and more to do with his biological makeup, and he - assuming he is taking responsibility for his recovery - can choose to put that thought aside in favor of our marriage, which in the end will be more satisfying for him spiritually and thus will motivate him to stay away from the porn. Is that about right so far?

It is possible to recover to the point where he does not act on lust. The addiction part however, does not go away. If I allow myself to take a good long look at some suggestive things on the computer I am CHOOSING trouble. And trouble is just around the corner if I give it room to breathe. Your husband is in for a tough battle. A good way to support him is to pray together. My wife and I do petitional prayer and Haily Mary’s etc… It’s the best intimacy and trust builder there is.

I compared my wife to the porn, but not because I wanted someone else. I wanted her, but behaving like I saw on the screen. I will tell you I loved her and had relations with her through those years, but I did not love her very well. Porn is cheating. It cheats the spouse of the full attention and productivity of the other spouse. Although we are financially comfortable and our kids are healthy, I wasted hours of time and lost tons of potential wages and neglected my family. For years.

I wanted my wife to be what I saw on the screen, reduced her to an object. Porn is not real, and that’s a problem cause the spouse never measures up, which cause a lot of unwarranted frustration. Porn stars never have headaches or arthritis or other problems which take the sexual thrill away. I liked to blame my wife when these frustrations with intimacy arose. But it was not her fault, or your fault, that a man gives in to lust. My addiction to pornography was my own choice, with many contributing factors that we don’t have time to detail here.

Just a fine point, I have not “overcome” porn. It is a demon stronger than I am. I had to accept that my corrupted will was not able to think it away, will it away, desire it away. For me, lust and the process of dealing with it has to be surrendered to Jesus Christ, wherein lies the victory.

Here’s where I still get confused. It was said earlier that porn addicts ARE comparing those images to their wives. Does this mean that all those women in the future who “catch his eye” will be compared to me? If that’s the case, of course I’ll always fall short. I don’t know how to reconcile myself to that - a lifetime of competing with every hot babe who passes by? Am I destined to be a disappointment to my husband?

I used porn to escape, to feel good, and to get my libido jacked up for relations at home. But I never wanted to leave my wife for someone else I saw or met. My addiction was strictly a fantasy thing. I wanted the love at home, the way I saw it on the screen, with none of the “downers” like responsibility and sacrifice. Others may have had different experiences like prostitution and or liasons.

I’m sorry if I’m being really dense. I’m just trying really hard to get to a place where I don’t feel like dirt - it’s hard to be the loving, supportive spouse I know I need to be when I feel this way.

It is difficult. The first thing is sobriety from porn.
Prayer together.
Abstinence (I can hear the guys screaming now). I’m not talking about abstinence used as a weapon, but as a fast, to refocus him on the heart of the relationship…sacrifice. And to rebuild the trust, so that you know he is not giving you his attention just so he can have the candy afterwards. Can the two of you spend time together being close but without sex, talking about the day’s troubles and joys? That was a huge chore for me…all that effort with no reward. Now we look forward to those times because I have come to value the intimacy.

 

[johnnyjones]

The women who are watching porno with their husbands thinking it adds to their life need to get things in check too. Seems like a lot of women out there into porno too.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

That’s pretty messed up man. Hilariously, strip clubs or any conversation, real or cyber, was a line I didn’t cross. Refused to cross. Would never do it. Of course, that was probably mostly out of fear of being discovered and having my own hypocrisy exposed. True, I had a moral objection to it but I also had moral objections to porn and that didn’t stop me from consuming it.

But yeah, I gather your point on the extreme saturation. It does cause discord even in marriages where there’s no full-blown addiction. And addiction manifests itself in different ways; your friend’s case is one extreme. My extreme was emotional abuse of everyone around me due to extreme anger and anxiety.

It’s all so insanely messed up I genuinely have no idea how I lived.

Strip clubs were always an accepted part of life, a rite of passage and a thing “guys” did with my friends & family. I think I was sixteen the first time an uncle snuck me into one. By the time I was 18, it was something we did regularly, whether to celebrate a birthday, special occasion or just for fun. Looking back, what really bothers me is that NOBODY complained. And now that I’m opposed to them, it really bothers me that so many are upset over it. For a while, I really could have spared my vocal chords some wear and tear if I’d have recorded myself saying, “Why would I need that when I have a beautiful wife at home?” You’d think it would be a pretty easy argument to win, but it mostly ended with me being painted as the bad guy or someone with a problem.

 

[The_Bucket]

Oh yeah, the guy who is trying to stay loyal to his wife on every possible level is the one with the problem

 

[pennylane]

Thanks. For the record, my intent wasn’t to hurt or upset anyone. I just get tired of hearing people say guys with this problem aren’t comparing their wives to the women they watch in these videos, or that there aren’t any negative or harmful side effects to it. I’ve cut ties with friends who have told me they wouldn’t be able to trust themselves if they had a teenage daughter, and with a family member who went on and on about how “hot” our twelve-year-old niece was. Each of them are admitted, habitual porn users, although they’re quick to point out that it’s entirely natural. It’s a horrible, ruinous habit that perverts your entire outlook. Anyone who says otherwise is either very naive or very dishonest.

This has been so helpful. I can’t even begin to tell you!! I know for a fact that my husband was using positions from the images/videos he was watching with me. He doesn’t know that I know that, but it is something that helped open my eyes to the severity of the problem. He wasn’t with me in that moment. He was in that fantasy.

By the grace of God, my husband has finally admitted the devil’s hand in all this. We haven’t started the actual recovery part of our journey yet, but I know that the first step has been taken and I ask for your prayers to help see us and our three daughters through.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Oh yeah, the guy who is trying to stay loyal to his wife on every possible level is the one with the problem

They’re just as upset that we’re passing these “wacky” ideas on to our kids. How on earth do we expect our son to get by without strip clubs and porn? What do you mean you don’t want us to buy him DVDs of movies with graphic sex scenes?

We have a 10-year-old nephew who watches Family Guy, Maury Povich, and all sorts of similar shows. He can recite every vulgar line, imitate the potential baby-daddies on Maury, etc. One family won’t let their 16 or 17-year-old daughter babysit for him anymore because of the filth that comes out of his mouth. However, we got a lecture from his mother about the inappropriate things we’re teaching our girls (the biggest problems being that we don’t let them watch Family Guy, and when a classmate told my daughter how her new baby sister was made, we didn’t lie to her and say her classmate was wrong).

I’ll admit that I’m less tolerant of a lot of this stuff now, but I’ve never let my kids watch these sorts of things. We were criticized for some of it before but it’s a good deal worse now.

 

[wendy_w]

They’re just as upset that we’re passing these “wacky” ideas on to our kids. How on earth do we expect our son to get by without strip clubs and porn? What do you mean you don’t want us to buy him DVDs of movies with graphic sex scenes?

We have a 10-year-old nephew who watches Family Guy, Maury Povich, and all sorts of similar shows. He can recite every vulgar line, imitate the potential baby-daddies on Maury, etc. One family won’t let their 16 or 17-year-old daughter babysit for him anymore because of the filth that comes out of his mouth. However, we got a lecture from his mother about the inappropriate things we’re teaching our girls (the biggest problems being that we don’t let them watch Family Guy, and when a classmate told my daughter how her new baby sister was made, we didn’t lie to her and say her classmate was wrong).

I’ll admit that I’m less tolerant of a lot of this stuff now, but I’ve never let my kids watch these sorts of things. We were criticized for some of it before but it’s a good deal worse now.

Gordon you are doing great stay strong. It is just so sad that this is what our
society has come too. I want my daughters to be respected not used by another
human being just as a object. When I would find out things my husband had done
I would ask him if he would want someone to look at our daughters that way, his
answer was always no, but he just couldn’t give up the addiction. By God’s grace
he is in recovery now and our marriage is healing but it has really taken a toll on us.
Daughters and sons need good role models in their parents, if we dont protect our children who will?

 

[Marguerite17]

When a person isn’t emotionally present they don’t have a true connection with anyone and the addict is never “PRESENT”. This is why your question, “If he loved me, I’d be sufficient for him, he would not have done this”, while logical kinda misses the mark. An addict’s notion of love is very peculiar since the very notion of being very close, ie: letting yourself be seen, known, exposed, LOVED is very scary for the addict since they really want to isolate, withdraw and hide. One thing that the addict knows for sure is that, “If you knew them, you wouldn’t want to be around them.”

I can see that. What led me to discover my husband’s porn use was his behavior - increasingly withdrawn, disconnected, etc. Nothing overt, all very subtle, but increasing very gradually over time. Pornography truly is destructrive.

But I did not experience love the way it’s supposed to be. Sure, I’d say I’d die for her and probably I would have. But would I do chores thanklessly? Would I buy her flowers and get nothing in return? Would I pray for her constantly and be OK with sleeping on the couch because she just wasn’t ready for me even being in the bed yet? Would I STILL pray and STILL be ok with going on the couch even after coming back just because I said or did something that reminded her of how I used to be?

That’s dying to self in just very small ways compared to what Christ’s love is. I have yet to even scratch the surface of His example. I still constantly battle with selfish impulses and resentment even though I caused the problem in the first place! My wife is an extremely giving and selfless person and I basically ran roughshod over her emotions and mental well-being for two years. It’s gonna take time for that to heal. And I have to constantly remind myself that even though I’m sober now, the damage done to her and to myself still lingers. It’s no one’s fault other than my own and I can’t fix it. Only God can and it will only be done in His time.

That is really awesome. What a great picture of Christ-like love. I really can’t tell you how good it is to read something so positive.

It is possible to recover to the point where he does not act on lust. The addiction part however, does not go away. If I allow myself to take a good long look at some suggestive things on the computer I am CHOOSING trouble. And trouble is just around the corner if I give it room to breathe. Your husband is in for a tough battle. A good way to support him is to pray together. My wife and I do petitional prayer and Haily Mary’s etc… It’s the best intimacy and trust builder there is.

Clem, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut too. Let me ask another question. I’ve never had an addiction, so it’s hard to comprehend what it would feel like. You said that the “addiction part” never goes away - but does it get easier? Does there come a point when you aren’t thinking about the addiction, battling the addiction, every day? Even now that all of you guys - Gordon, Bucket, TW, Clem - have turned away from the pornography and made such significant changes - do you still feel like you really have to be vigilant so the temptation doesn’t return?

You all have really made my week - reading all of your stories has been therapeutic, and that’s saying a lot because I have an awesome therapist! I’m continuing to pray for all of you!

 

[clem456]

I can see that. What led me to discover my husband’s porn use was his behavior - increasingly withdrawn, disconnected, etc. Nothing overt, all very subtle, but increasing very gradually over time. Pornography truly is destructrive.

That is really awesome. What a great picture of Christ-like love. I really can’t tell you how good it is to read something so positive.

Clem, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut too. Let me ask another question. I’ve never had an addiction, so it’s hard to comprehend what it would feel like. You said that the “addiction part” never goes away - but does it get easier? Does there come a point when you aren’t thinking about the addiction, battling the addiction, every day? Even now that all of you guys - Gordon, Bucket, TW, Clem - have turned away from the pornography and made such significant changes - do you still feel like you really have to be vigilant so the temptation doesn’t return?

You all have really made my week - reading all of your stories has been therapeutic, and that’s saying a lot because I have an awesome therapist! I’m continuing to pray for all of you!

I need to be more precise when I say the addiction never leaves. That is the attitude I must have to continue my conversion. Possible some day I will say I am not addicted, I don’t know, but it’s an accurate term to describe the state I was in, and the peril I face if I make bad decisions.

Yes I do have to be vigilant, but it’s not what I would call a fight anymore. I have been completely sober December 2011, and mostly sober for about a year and a half. Every positive step in conversion builds on the one before it, so that virtue can become more “automatic”. It’s simply practice.

My will and conscience were corrupted, so when I was in the throes of addiction, it was a huge agonizing battle to resist. I thought I was fighting something external, like trying to fight someone away with a club. Lust does have some external factors…the image I’m lusting after, I’m sure Satan is in there somewhere also. But lust and sin in general must be taken in and chosen…internalized, owned by the addict. Taken in to our hearts and wills and chosen. Then we become corrupted. My discovery was that I must surrender this battle, not participate in it, because I could not win it.

The battle is something like this:
temptation–desiring it-thinking about it-resistance-rationalizitions-acting out-shame-self loathing-despair. You get stuck in this battle, somtimes I would battle temptation for days.
Now it’s like this: temptation-desiring it-surrender to prayer-call an accountability partner-. I don’t try and fight it or think about the pros and cons, I know the whole thing is wrong and I go right to The Cross.

It’s like stepping off a cliff at first, you don’t trust what’s beneath you. You believe that if you pass temptation up, you are deprived of something. I’m thinking: “If I don’t indulge this temptation, I am really going to miss something I should experience. I will never see this girl walk by again, I need to participate somehow. Look at the beauty, I need to somehow appropriate that”
or at home:
“My wife and I have this opportunity to make love now, and if we don’t, an opportunity is lost forever. How could she have a headache?!!!”
After surrendering and stepping off that cliff a few times, I discovered that God is there to provide every good thing I need and more, if I will trust Him and give up the temptation, as well as the ugly battle that surrounds it.

So, as my will and conscience are gradually restored to health, united with God’s will, peace and joy and contentment begin to come back. Recovery is the greatest thing. We are all called to conversion and recovery from something, as an addict I was blessed to have my spiritual condition put right before my eyes.
Others are not so blessed, and may go a lifetime without a sense of their need for God.

 

[Groo]

I have been out of active addiction for just over 2 years, and in recovery for just about the same length of time. It has been the battle of my life and I think always will be. My program consists of 3 suppoet meetings a week, phone calls to other men in recovery, daily Mass, a holy hour in adoration every day, and weekly confession. I need all of this to stay sober and always will.

When I am on top of my program, I do well with avoiding triggers (e.g. even news sites like cnn.com can have unhealthy stories). When I am not consistent, the old fantasies start to come back.

If anything, I would say it gets harder the longer I am in recovery. I need to continually work on my mountain of character flaws and sinfulness. The longer I am in recovery, the deeper the sinfulness I have to deal with - e.g. pride, greed. And if I do not move forward, I fall back. It is a daily dying to self and allowing Christ to live in me.

I still have many many flaws, but I am closer to God and happier than I have ever been.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

Addiction to be is when a person expeiences powerlessness over their addictive behavior. This powerlessness for me was evident in obsessive compulsive behaviors. I never dreamed of being free of the addiction if I was having obsessive compulsive, (“O.C.”) thoughts. It was absolutely positively impossible for me not act out once I was in an O.C. mind set. I would attend meetings and hear that people had months or years of sobriety and I couldn’t understand how that was possible when the most I could mangage was a few days or maybe a week here or there. As my marriage had ended before trying to recover from this disease, I really had only myself to try to recover for.

With time and lots of meetings I took me a good while for the miracle to happen, that is I finally stopped O.C. At that point I managed a very long length of sobriety, it was a very good expierence and one that I wouldn’t change for the world. I did have some slips and have enjoyed a long period of sobriety free of any O.C. behavior. I know that I could fall back but I also know that I do not live my life scared of the addiction, rather I am very angry at the addiction and what it has cost me.