Marriage - if there's any doubt, DON'T?

[rick43235]

Not so. My sister said almost the exact same thing to her fiance…

Interesting story, but I have one too. One of my roommates from college was engaged to a “nice Catholic girl” who was obviously anxious about sex, and who often told him that she never really had much of a desire for sex. But, he loved her, so they got married anyway. According to him, the wedding night was a disaster, and their sex life (or lack thereof) went straight downhill from there. They divorced within two years.

So…what does my story prove? Nothing. Same as yours. Every case is unique.

I think most people who have never had sex (or engaged in other sexual activity) have a sleeping sexuality.

For the OP, hopefully this is the case. However (and I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this - but it’s my honest opinion), I suspect that the majority of people who get to their 30’s with absolutely zero experience with sex do not have a “sleeping sexuality.” Most likely, they have huge issues where sex is concerned.

But again…every case is unique.

 

[Am2010]

Interesting story, but I have one too. One of my roommates from college was engaged to a “nice Catholic girl” who was obviously anxious about sex, and who often told him that she never really had much of a desire for sex. But, he loved her, so they got married anyway. According to him, the wedding night was a disaster, and their sex life (or lack thereof) went straight downhill from there. They divorced within two years.

So…what does my story prove? Nothing. Same as yours. Every case is unique.

For the OP, hopefully this is the case. However (and I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this - but it’s my honest opinion), I suspect that the majority of people who get to their 30’s with absolutely zero experience with sex do not have a “sleeping sexuality.” Most likely, they have huge issues where sex is concerned.

But again…every case is unique.

I agree with Rick-I have seen it far too many times on this board and other marriage/religious boards. Many times the man feels lied to and used for a child because after a baby is born the wife uses that as an excuse to avoid for years. Even on CAF when a man comes here seeking advice many are quick to point out that sex isn’t intimacy and one day maybe she’ll be interested.
Help more with laundry,the kids,cooking etc The woman holds all the power so it is wise for a man to make sure she is willing to seek counsel if they should have problems in this area.

 

[PatriceA]

This is purely hypothetical my point of view, as I’m long married and divorced, but I hope that it provides some thoughtful and helpful answers for other people who are contemplating marriage.

I remember, as an Anglican, hear our married priest talk, in a sermon, of how terrified he was before his wedding. He didn’t know whether to go ahead with it. But now he was happily married, and his lesson was that sometimes we have to forget our fears, and go forward in faith. Five years later he was divorced.

In the months before my own wedding, I was thrown about by doubts, I felt that although I wanted to marry my fiancee, I didn’t really love her deeply. But I told myself that being “in love” was different from “loving”, and I was confident that I could “love” her, as a decision. Ten years later she left me, and then divorced me, complaining that I didn’t really love her.

During our own marriage preparation classes the priest who spoke to us said that since the start of the classes one of the couples had decided to break-off their engagement, and he said that was a very good thing, and anyone else feeling unsure should do the same. (Ouch!!!)

I’ve also heard the advice, that if there’s any doubt - don’t get married.

What are other peoples experiences? Are “doubts” really a deal breaker?

Particularly, are there people who had doubts, and have remained happily married, or are there people who had no doubts, and had a miserable marriage?

Thankyou,

Edmundus

If your relationship is not working at the present time, marriage is not going to make it any better. I believe some people think that getting married is going to magically “fix” their relationship. I had to approach getting married as if the relationship was already fuctioning at its highest form, and if I was happy with the way things were at that moment in time. If I could say yes, if this is the best it ever gets, then I am extremely happy and blessed, so I got married. If one has doubts that the relationship is never going to get better, because a wedding is not going to fix any underlying problems in the relationship, then you have to acknowledge those doubts and reconsider the engagement.

I think everyone has “fears” or “doubts” about any big life decision, be it getting married, buying a house, starting a new job, etc. But those “fears” are not the same as truly doubting a relationship and the person you are getting married to.

 

[phil8888]

guys, you might think this is verging on blasphemy here, but I kind of like the idea of arranged marriages.

people go through so much anxiety and fear. they sometimes date so many people. then, as you can see from these posts, they wonder if they should be getting married, if the time is right, they have fears, questions, doubts, etc.

then they get married, and even then they worry that they’ve picked the wrong person. eventually these doubts become fear and terror and the relationship is on the rocks, sometimes leading to marriage.

I think if people had arranged marriages, they wouldn’t worry about any of this stuff, and they would take what they got and make it work. rather than asking “is this the best possible scenario?”, they would ask “what can I do to make this work” and since they didn’t make the decision themselves, they wouldn’t feel responsible for it and therefore wouldn’t take the initiative to end it.

look at India, the divorce rate is like 1%.

 

[Sam_777]

I think most people who have never had sex (or engaged in other sexual activity) have a sleeping sexuality.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif** sleeping sexuality** is a million time better than other sexual activities outside marriage which would let the person sin…

 

[Lightbee]

:shrug:my heart sinks in me when I read these posts.
I am currently dating the most wonderful guy… and he is talking about engagement.
But inspite of his wonderfulnes I doubt about him. I wonder… could I meet someone in whom I would fall much more in love? There is a lack inside me in my feelings and it has been a struggle for some months already. Frankly… I am not getting any younger (28 already) and this guy is awesome - Catholic, intelligent, funny, good looking, Considerate, my friend! etc - and I just feel I would be a major idiot if I just let him walk away just because my expectations from my own emotions are dissapointed.

I felt that way about my ex-husband - the one thing that made me doubt again and again was that I didn’t feel that “spark” - I couldn’t explain it any better than that. But that was one of the major issues we had.

The second time around God showed me the most wonderful bible verse. And following God’s wisdom in that led me to the most perfect man for me:

“Do not stir up or awaken love until it is ready” Song of Solmon 2:7b (NRSV)

If its right, you’ll feel sure. Pray of course for God’s discernment and wisdom. But if your emotions aren’t in line with everything else, there is a reason for it. God gave us our emotions as much as any other part of us. And I totally agree with the other posters who suggest waiting until you’re both sure you’re ready.

 

[vera_dicere]

I think if people had arranged marriages, they wouldn’t worry about any of this stuff, and they would take what they got and make it work. rather than asking “is this the best possible scenario?”, they would ask “what can I do to make this work” and since they didn’t make the decision themselves, they wouldn’t feel responsible for it and therefore wouldn’t take the initiative to end it.

look at India, the divorce rate is like 1%.

Never mind the domestic violence, spousal rape, and in some places attacks on wives for no reason by irritated in-laws weilding acid or petrol and a lighter. Also, divorce in India and other arranged marriage countries tendds to be lower because of the social stigma associated with it.

Regardless, I do see your point and oftentimes have wondered if it has its merits. I mean, if your parents were good people and knew you well and the parents of you future spouse were good people and knew their child well, and were able to see that the two of you had similar interests et al, then it could possibly work.

I’ve worked with many people of various cultures and one woman has a fantastically strong marriage - arranged, her husband is the loveliest guy you could ever meet, generous, kind, sensitive, hard working, and they have seven great kids. Yet, I know another woman who was put in an arranged marriage who was abused and raped for years. It took coming to this country to escape it, and now she can’t go back to her home country for fear of an “honour killing”. Both had great parents who knew their kids and thought they were doign them a favour.

But people are corrupt, some parents would arrange a marriage for money of social standing.

And quite frankly, as often as I’ve joked about it to my mum as I’m terrible with socalising and just lazy in romance, I dont’ think I could give my virginity up to some stranger! I want to share it, not have it sold out from under me by meddling parents and in-laws.

 

[vera_dicere]

I recently read a book, “Whom not to marry” by Fr. Pat Connor, and even though I’m single, it offers some really good advice, it speaks of some major doubts that should be setting off alarm bells.

I recommend this book to anyone and everyone single, or in a bf/gf courting relationship. Its geared more at women, but men could still get a lot out of it.

 

[Phemie]

Properly done marriage preparation, done in a timely fashion, should result in at least some couples postponing or cancelling the planned wedding. That means that marriage preparation should be done before any other preparation is undertaken since already having spent a lot of money can be a stumbling block to people doing the right thing. IMHO, marriage prep should come before the engagement.

 

[Lightbee]

Properly done marriage preparation, done in a timely fashion, should result in at least some couples postponing or cancelling the planned wedding. That means that marriage preparation should be done before any other preparation is undertaken since already having spent a lot of money can be a stumbling block to people doing the right thing. IMHO, marriage prep should come before the engagement.

Agreed!! Maybe someone should start running “engagement prep” instead of just “marriage prep”.

 

[Phemie]

Agreed!! Maybe someone should start running “engagement prep” instead of just “marriage prep”.

While taking courses in liturgy several years ago, the priest who was teaching told us that there was a move afoot to have engaged couples enter the ‘order of the engaged’, similar to the catechumenate, with the object of ensuring that couples would be very well prepared for a Catholic marriage.

I know that if that were ever to happen most of the couples we see getting married in the Church today would probably not be doing so. They simply wouldn’t go through the trouble because a Catholic wedding doesn’t really mean enough to them to bother.

 

[Phemie]

Agreed!! Maybe someone should start running “engagement prep” instead of just “marriage prep”.

I’m watching a disaster in the making right now in my own circle. A young single mom friend of mine is engaged to a divorced non-Catholic. They are awaiting a decree of nullity but all their preparation is in place for a December wedding. No marriage prep with the Church yet because the annulment hasn’t come through. The decision has already been made that if the decree of nullity isn’t granted the wedding is still going ahead with a judge.

Even if the decree of nullity does arrive and they do marriage prep what are the odds that they will opt to postpone or cancel if marriage prep uncovers a good reason to do so?

 

[PatriceA]

Properly done marriage preparation, done in a timely fashion, should result in at least some couples postponing or cancelling the planned wedding. That means that marriage preparation should be done before any other preparation is undertaken since already having spent a lot of money can be a stumbling block to people doing the right thing. IMHO, marriage prep should come before the engagement.

I agree. Too many couples book the reception site, the music, the catering and order the dress before they even consider calling the Church. They put more thought and energy into the party, then they do the actual thought process of if they should even get married in the first place.

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks Admonsta.

You make a good point that there is the option of waiting. My own courship and engagement was very brief. I wish that I had decided to wait longer, and really sort through any problems, rather than feel that I had to make a “yes” or “no” decision before I was sure. Part of the problem was, paradoxically, her parents applying pressure not to get married. It actually made it more difficult to admit problems.

This is actually a red flag, right here. It’s hip and cool to ignore parental advice, especially if you’re young - but they have an outsider’s perspective and can see issues coming up more clearly than the star-struck couple.

I learned that early enough to have the sense to ask my fiance’s mother whether she thought we should get married. Her enthusiastic “yes” was what sealed the deal. If she’d had any doubts whatsoever, I’d have moved on right then and there.

My mother liked my fiance; my Dad didn’t - and everything he thought would happen, did happen. Our marriage survived it - we’ve been married nearly 26 years, and still going strong.

 

[Aggies08]

My DH said he was more than happy for the wedding to finally arrive- I was late to my own wedding <.> It made for some fun gossip to pass the time, though…

I don’t remember any doubts, just fears about the ceremony itself- having to be in front of all the people, speaking at a good volume, would it look nice/would everything show up and be place correctly, etc.

While taking courses in liturgy several years ago, the priest who was teaching told us that there was a move afoot to have engaged couples enter the ‘order of the engaged’, similar to the catechumenate, with the object of ensuring that couples would be very well prepared for a Catholic marriage.

This sounds odd to me. Both DH and I were/are of the opinion that if one isn’t ready to get married, there is no reason to be engaged. We both feel long engagements (1, 2, 3, 4 + years- I know someone who was 6 yrs engaged) are a bit ridiculous. Sometimes things need to be postponed for good reason (family gets ill, accident or injury, etc), but really, if a couple is ready for engagement, doesn’t that mean they are ready to be married? They have discerned they are right for each other? Isn’t that what engagement declares? Marriage prep seems fine for me; engagement is a passing phase, marriage should be for life.

 

[chevalier]

guys, you might think this is verging on blasphemy here, but I kind of like the idea of arranged marriages.

Kinda hard with modern Western sensibilities but the more matrimonially minded dating websites share some similarities with those. Additionally, plenty of people are prepared not to absolutise being in love (now, getting lemmingified by strong attraction may be harder to avoid). Don’t we have gold diggers, dowry hunters, marryers-up and all sorts of opportunity seekers? “Settling” is also an arrangement. Reading up in books and other materials is not unlike asking the elders.

I think if people had arranged marriages, they wouldn’t worry about any of this stuff, and they would take what they got and make it work. rather than asking “is this the best possible scenario?”, they would ask “what can I do to make this work” and since they didn’t make the decision themselves, they wouldn’t feel responsible for it and therefore wouldn’t take the initiative to end it.

There’d still be worries about the pick, there’d be mistakes, it’d still be hit or miss. Marriage arranging procedures already contain safety valves as it is, barring the communities where they will just force you.

I recently read a book, “Whom not to marry” by Fr. Pat Connor, and even though I’m single, it offers some really good advice, it speaks of some major doubts that should be setting off alarm bells.

I recommend this book to anyone and everyone single, or in a bf/gf courting relationship. Its geared more at women, but men could still get a lot out of it.

Reminds me of this:

cormacburke.or.ke/taxonomy/term/2

A good bunch of stuff the tribunal won’t pull you out of. Gives you an idea what kinds of things people ignore and end up divorced and in most cases still validly married or at any rate unable to prove invalidity. Few of those cases ended in the affirmative.

Also, at some point my father practically made me read a book by a noted psychiatrist about the various types of psychopathy and that’s been quite educational. I have a copious e-book about dealing with narcissists somewhere (escapeabuse.com/npd.pdf) and there’s usually a connected article or two in that magazine I buy semi-regularly, mostly for commute time. Reading a number of books about nonverbal communication has been helpful too. Makes it less easy for you to ignore trouble.

 

[rkwittem]

I had a friend who broke his engagement because she would not raise the kids Catholic. Both are apparently better off for it. (I have not spoken to her in a long time). He is doing well, though.

 

[chevalier]

I had a friend who broke his engagement because she would not raise the kids Catholic. Both are apparently better off for it. (I have not spoken to her in a long time). He is doing well, though.

Something similar happened to me too, although I wasn’t the one who broke up.

 

[90Domer]

This is purely hypothetical my point of view, as I’m long married and divorced, but I hope that it provides some thoughtful and helpful answers for other people who are contemplating marriage.

I remember, as an Anglican, hear our married priest talk, in a sermon, of how terrified he was before his wedding. He didn’t know whether to go ahead with it. But now he was happily married, and his lesson was that sometimes we have to forget our fears, and go forward in faith. Five years later he was divorced.

In the months before my own wedding, I was thrown about by doubts, I felt that although I wanted to marry my fiancee, I didn’t really love her deeply. But I told myself that being “in love” was different from “loving”, and I was confident that I could “love” her, as a decision. Ten years later she left me, and then divorced me, complaining that I didn’t really love her.

During our own marriage preparation classes the priest who spoke to us said that since the start of the classes one of the couples had decided to break-off their engagement, and he said that was a very good thing, and anyone else feeling unsure should do the same. (Ouch!!!)

I’ve also heard the advice, that if there’s any doubt - don’t get married.

What are other peoples experiences? Are “doubts” really a deal breaker?

Particularly, are there people who had doubts, and have remained happily married, or are there people who had no doubts, and had a miserable marriage?

Thankyou,

Edmundus

I can tell you from my experience, that both my husband and I had doubt right up until the week before the wedding. But that didn’t stop up from getting married. And we both worked on any residual doubts we had as a couple, as we were now a couple until death. I think knowing that we both felt committed to the marriage despite some doubts cemented our relationship. We will be married 19 years in April.