Marriage in heaven

[SteveVH]

I totally understand that marriage is “death to us part.” Maybe it is just because I am a newlywed and he is gone right now for several months, but (I’m not sure how we meet in heaven) if I died and many years later DH makes it to heaven with his “new” wife, I feelings may be hurt. It is just kind of sad to think about.

Our life will be with God. Imagine sharing in the very life of the Trinity. When we become one with God we will become one with those we love in a way that we cannot now imagine or comprehend. Our marriages on earth are kind of like a candle in a dark room. They light it up. Take that candle outside in the daylight and it becomes completley insignificant in relationship to the light of the sun and is no longer needed. Our earthly relationships will pale in comparison to the relationships we will have with God and with each other. So don’t be sad.

 

[kimg901]

Our life will be with God. Imagine sharing in the very life of the Trinity. When we become one with God we will become one with those we love in a way that we cannot now imagine or comprehend. Our marriages on earth are kind of like a candle in a dark room. They light it up. Take that candle outside in the daylight and it becomes completley insignificant in relationship to the light of the sun and is no longer needed. Our earthly relationships will pale in comparison to the relationships we will have with God and with each other. So don’t be sad.

Well said Steve

 

[MichaelHowling]

If you read TOB, under historical man, you will find the the original call to communion-- the most important one, is in original solitude. THEN, the revealing of the call to communion through woman and man.

The fact that we need both signs, I acknowledged in my last sentence.

but celibacy–solitude in communion with God, most definitely means something “without us who are married”

Agape,

The original solitude in TOB only brought the idea of incompleteness and lonlieness of man to the attention of man…GOd already knew He would feel this (God being a communion of persons, making us in His image, was going to make us a communion of persons…marriage!). It was in his acknowledgement of his mate that where he first feels complete. He brings all the animals to him …“but none made a suitable partner” . He brings woman and Adam acknowledges “this one at last is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.” And God called it “very good”.

AGAIN, as in my last post pointed out…celebacy would be meaningless without the image of marriage. Calling her woman…wo-man…means “out of man”. She was ALREADY there to begin with!

I think you’re missing a very important point in TOB. Both signs are important…but if lived out rightly, they both are equally important. You can’t have one without the other…if one does not exist, the other is pretty …imageless.

God bless

 

[MichaelHowling]

“It is not good that the man should be alone”

God is a communion of persons …we are to be as well…by being so, (or by a total consecration to God) , we are imaging what is happening in heaven! Without the marriage imagery almost all of our theology would fall apart!

 

[Brendan_64]

Not only does the Church say that it is objectively superior, but it has been dogmatically defined as such and to oppose this is heresy.

That is not the case. We have married priests in the Catholic Church, those who have come over from the Anglican Churches, or the Eastern Catholic Church.

Celibacy for our Priests is a matter of Church discipline, it is NOT Church dogma. It exists for practical purposes, including that of our priests being able to fulfil their parish duties more readily etc.

Celibacy for our Priests is NOT Church dogma.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

That is not the case. We have married priests in the Catholic Church, those who have come over from the Anglican Churches, or the Eastern Catholic Church.

Celibacy for our Priests is a matter of Church discipline, it is NOT Church dogma. It exists for practical purposes, including that of our priests being able to fulfil their parish duties more readily etc.

Celibacy for our Priests is NOT Church dogma.

I never said Celibacy for priests was dogma, I said

Not only does the Church say that [celibacy] is objectively superior [to marriage], but it has been dogmatically defined as such and to oppose this is heresy.

 

[Brendan_64]

I never said Celibacy for priests was dogma, I said
Dakota Roberts:

Not only does the Church say that [celibacy] is objectively superior [to marriage], but it has been dogmatically defined as such and to oppose this is heresy.

OK I understood you on that point.

But point me to an official Vatican source of our treaching that states that celibacy is objectively superior to marriage.

If we too that to the ultimate then the Church on Earth would simply disappear as people stopped reproducing out of a desire to follow the will of God as fully as possible.

Didn’t the Cathars hold that view? Celibacy was the desired state and sexual relationships to be avoided by all.

 

[agapewolf]

OK I understood you on that point.

But point me to an official Vatican source of our treaching that states that celibacy is objectively superior to marriage.

If we too that to the ultimate then the Church on Earth would simply disappear as people stopped reproducing out of a desire to follow the will of God as fully as possible.

Didn’t the Cathars hold that view? Celibacy was the desired state and sexual relationships to be avoided by all.

TOB says that celibacy is objectively superior.

 

[agapewolf]

=

I think you’re missing a very important point in TOB. Both signs are important…but if lived out rightly, they both are equally important. You can’t have one without the other…if one does not exist, the other is pretty …imageless.

God bless

I should not have said “the most important one.” That was wrong of me.
YOU are missing an important point. As I said in my original statement, subjectively, the better vocation is for the one which we are called.

But OBJECTIVELY, celibacy is superior vocation, as it is claiming heaven already, whereas marriage points us to it. This is in TOB.

 

[PJM]

=saramichelle6;10331383]My mormon friend is asking me questions about my Catholic faith. She asked me if we believe that we are still married in heaven. Any insights?

“Thou are dust and to dust YOU SHALL return” Gen. 3:19

DUST cannot b be married

Matthew 22:30** “For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven**”

EXPLAINATION;

Of the BILLIONS of Created things in the Universe; **only one; only man **can and does emulate our God. HOW?

Only man has a mind; intellect and Freewill permnately attached to our Souls. These like God Himself are **“Spiritual realities” **and Eternal things.

**John 4:23-24 ** “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him.God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth”

IT IS THIS SPIRITUAL package that man alone has from God that will be present before God when we die. [sort of of our "other-self] UNTIL the FINAL Judgment when our bodies; not perfected will be reunited with our “Spiritual Realities.”

Hope this clarifies it for you?

They believe they can and do remarry

That they do continue to have sex and kids

That they the parents then become “gods” [small “G”]

 

[agapewolf]

I see the problem here is that people are saying that celibacy gets its importance by what it is giving up.

Here is a sentence from my TOB institute class study guide:

-Celibacy is only a “renunciation” when viewed “in the categories of the temporal oder” (TOB 79:8) When viewed in light of “the kingdom” (and it must be viewed in this way according to Christ), the celibate person loses nothing and gains everything

TOB 77:1

More sentences in the Study Guide:

Celibacy is exceptional because marriage remains the normal calling in this life. It is “better” in the sense that heavenly marriage is better than earthly marriage.

It is also “better” only in the objective sense.

Basically in TOB 77:6 JPII refers to the “superiority” of continence of marriage.

He continues in TOB 78:3

 

[Breizhour]

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Yes, indeed. But, let us remember the context : some Jews are testing Jesus by introducing the case of a woman who married many times after each husband died. And ask to whom will she officially be married to ? Jesus points out that this way of understanding is extremely limited as this would be seeing mariage as a pure contract, a matter of law and ownership. So He says there is no marriage taking place IN Heaven.

But we can’t forget as well that marriage is not, for Catholics, a legal matter, but a sacrament, an act performed by God Himself through his servants, the holy priests. Is our baptism over once we died ? No, of course, on the contrary.

Let me add that the purpose of marriage is to give birth to eternal souls. They will look like their parents, as a symbol of their eternal union, sharing a common blood. Children image is marriage image.

As it has been said, Holy Mary is Jesus mother forever, as is Joseph His father forever too.

To me, our current life is not “erased” in Heaven. We will meet many different people, but we will not forget our love ones whom God put on our way, especially our closest relatives. I don’t think it will be a matter of “God or this person” but “God and this person, plus every other ones”.

We may also understand marriage as a physical union, which include sex. And this, as there will be no more birth in the afterlife, will be useless and also impossible. But companionship seems to me totally possible and a very positive thing, an image of our ever lasting union to God. If God created women and men, He knew why and so did He when He created Marriage sacrament.

Some could say that in Heaven we have no more male or female attributes, concluding this because of this sentence :

but are as the angels of God in heaven

In Heaven, we will be like Adam and Eve, with our spiritual and perfect bodies, living for those who chose to do so, a nice companionship with our loving partner, for eternity. But we could see it, even if the word is not proper, as a “beautiful friendship”. I don’t see anything that would help such a companionship.

Basically, our resurrection will be the same than Jesus One. And Jesus is a Man. Sexual type remains.

 

[Miriam1947]

Celibacy is all well and good but without marriage and/or sex, there would no longer be any celibates because there would no longer be any children.

Think Shakers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

 

[saramichelle6]

“Thou are dust and to dust YOU SHALL return” Gen. 3:19

DUST cannot b be married

Matthew 22:30** “For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven**”

EXPLAINATION;

Of the BILLIONS of Created things in the Universe; **only one; only man **can and does emulate our God. HOW?

Only man has a mind; intellect and Freewill permnately attached to our Souls. These like God Himself are **“Spiritual realities” **and Eternal things.

**John 4:23-24 ** “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him.God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth”

IT IS THIS SPIRITUAL package that man alone has from God that will be present before God when we die. [sort of of our "other-self] UNTIL the FINAL Judgment when our bodies; not perfected will be reunited with our “Spiritual Realities.”

Hope this clarifies it for you?

They believe they can and do remarry

That they do continue to have sex and kids

That they the parents then become “gods” [small “G”]

Yes, this is helpful. I originally asked the question specifically in the light of Mormon doctrine of eternal marriages/families. I had sincerely never thought about it before, coming from a protestant background and then to Catholicism it just wasn’t on my radar. Then my friend starts asking about it and I didn’t know what to say. Anything from scriptures is helpful since we both (my Mormon friend and I) believe that the scriptures are inspired by God and can’t be in error.

Thank you!

 

[emdadjut]

Yeah, heaven is only for married people.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

OK I understood you on that point.

But point me to an official Vatican source of our treaching that states that celibacy is objectively superior to marriage.

If we too that to the ultimate then the Church on Earth would simply disappear as people stopped reproducing out of a desire to follow the will of God as fully as possible.

Didn’t the Cathars hold that view? Celibacy was the desired state and sexual relationships to be avoided by all.

Sacra Virginitas:

1. This doctrine of the excellence of virginity and of celibacy and of their superiority over the married state was, as We have already said, revealed by our Divine Redeemer and by the Apostle of the Gentiles; so too, it was solemnly defined as a dogma of divine faith by the holy council of Trent,[57] and explained in the same way by all the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church. Finally, We and Our Predecessors have often expounded it and earnestly advocated it whenever occasion offered. But recent attacks on this traditional doctrine of the Church, the danger they constitute, and the harm they do to the souls of the faithful lead Us, in fulfillment of the duties of Our charge, to take up the matter once again in this Encyclical Letter, and to reprove these errors which are so often propounded under a specious appearance of truth.

Celibacy is all well and good but without marriage and/or sex, there would no longer be any celibates because there would no longer be any children.

Think Shakers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

I never said marriage was bad, merely that it is objectively inferior to celibacy.

 

[PJM]

=Dakota Roberts;10337460]I never said marriage was bad, merely that it is objectively inferior to celibacy.

REALLY

If it were not for marriage there would be no oportunity for a “single life”

 

[MichaelHowling]

I think you’re confused. Marriage is the primordial sacrament. We’re ALL called to marriage…celebacy is “exceptional” because it is not the norm. Celebecy would loose it’s purpose without the vocation of marriage. I think you’re back tracking. We’re all called to marriage…there’s just different ways to go about it. Marriage is what it is all about and it is ALL of our destiny including the celebates.

 

[agapewolf]

I think you’re confused. Marriage is the primordial sacrament. We’re ALL called to marriage…celebacy is “exceptional” because it is not the norm. Celebecy would loose it’s purpose without the vocation of marriage. I think you’re back tracking. We’re all called to marriage…there’s just different ways to go about it. Marriage is what it is all about and it is ALL of our destiny including the celebates.

I don’t know who you are addressing, but I suggest you read the TOB sections I referenced.

 

[MichaelHowling]

I’ve read all of TOB.