Marriage in trouble. Do you agree?

[E_7]

Hi all,

I was reading in a very secular (and maybe anti-Catholic) website called Talk About Marriage a post that a poster claimed it was said by a marriage counselor:

Marriage will always take two, has to always come first & is a full time endeavor. Before job, children, hobbies etc. As soon as it falls from the top spot, you are in trouble.

Sex is the marriage barometer. If the sex is great & frequent, the marriage will remain strong. Sex is the glue that bonds you together, when problems arise and sex takes a hit, again, you are in trouble. If you don’t like sex, don’t get married!

When problems arise and they will, we’re all human, and only one spouse is willing to sacrifice all to fix things while the other shows little or no interest, the marriage is doomed to fail. This falls in line with point #1.

Intimate communication must exist. If all you talk about is your job, TV shows or spend all your free time on line and avoid subjects relevant to your marriage, especially very personal ones, you are in trouble.

Marriage can never be put on “autopilot”. It can’t take care of itself, it needs constant feeding.

If these points are not met, here is what will happen:

PHASE 1- Renovation phase- You will struggle to make things work
and even try and adapt to their ways, over your own
preferences.
PHASE 2- Retaliation phase- Resentment, bitterness and possible
hurtful words occur here. You also begin losing confidence
self esteem & personal security, the longer you stay in this
phase.
PHASE 3- Rejection phase- This is the “point of no return”.
Emotional separation or divorce occurs. If you choose to
stay, once you’ve reached this level, it will be just about
impossible to leave, due to losing your complete emotional
self, and all confidence. You will surrender to your misery.

I have to disagree with sex being “the glue” here. I think God in the marriage as the center of it is “the glue”.

But what got me thinking was the paragraph

Intimate communication must exist. If all you talk about is your job, TV shows or spend all your free time on line and avoid subjects relevant to your marriage, especially very personal ones, you are in trouble.

Is this true? I’m thinking that it is. But I don’t know what can be considered as intimate and personal communication…I mean, hubby and I are yet to be 2 years married. I do feel sometimes that we are not being intimate enough, that we don’t talk “intimate” enough (even though I’m not sure what and how intimate I want to talk about) and that 95% of our “communication” is about anime series, job, our son, and how are other family members doing.

What are your opinions on that website’s forum post?

 

[alphawoman]

I think the author has a misunderstanding of the circularity of the direction of causation of sex and marital success. Does bonding through sex promote a good relationship? Yes, but a good relationship is required for fulfilling sex to occur.

Also, there are seasons in marriages, with waxing and waning periods. I think a popular secular misconception is that any loss you experience augur permanent changes. More likely than not, hurdles are temporary.

 

[Xantippe]

I have a few objections.

1. In an emergency, other things will take priority over the couple’s relationship. If a child is dangerously ill, a much-anticipated couple’s night out may need to be cancelled. Obviously, that can’t go on all the time (if an “emergency” is ongoing, it’s not an emergency anymore), but there needs to be enough flexibility in the marriage to cope with non-marital needs.

That’s one of the things that marriage is for–helping us cope better with our other responsibilities.

1. The author loses PC points by being insensitive to asexuals.
2. Alphawoman is correct about the author not understanding the feedback relationship between the marital relationship and marital sexuality or allowing enough for there being seasons. It’s all or nothing, and you are DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED once things start going bad in any way.

Regarding E_7’s thoughts:

1. I think a conversation is intimate if it’s one that you wouldn’t have with any other person.
2. I’m noting that the quoted passage doesn’t really talk about children. I think they’re mentioned once.

 

[jlc2k2]

In addition to the great responses from alphawoman and Xantippe, I would add - What the heck does the author think happens when abstinence is required by circumstances? Our two longest dry spells have been due to DH being at boot camp for 3 months and me being on pelvic rest for the last trimester of pregnancy with the twins + the 6 weeks pp. Does he/she think every marriage with long absences and difficult pregnancies fall apart?

Also, I think what constitutes an intimate conversation can vary based on the personalities of the two people involved. For example, my husband and I probably wouldn’t seem like we had very intimate conversations to an outside observer as it’s mostly about work, the kids, video games, music, etc. But what they may miss is all the inside jokes and references that are intertwined into the conversation. Also, I don’t do small talk. Period. It’s painful for me. So to just chat about a book or a movie with someone is actually a very big thing for me that reveals the depth of the relationship I have with that person.

 

[Sunbreak]

Yes, personal communication is important. Now, what does this mean? It means that if something bothers you, you will let your spouse know and your spouse will let you know. It means if you don’t want to do something, you will be honest instead of going along with it and then building up anger.

 

[Kelfa28]

Is my Marriage in trouble?

According to just about anyone I talk to…yeah, big time.

We are in the hole financially and are desperately trying to dig ourselves out but something else just keeps on popping up on almost a weekly basis.

We are both completely stressed out by our jobs (his military career, my job as a student and mother).

My health is a mess (recently diagnosed with PPD among other things).

We fight way more now then ever…usually over something irrational.

We haven’t been intimate in months nor will we be anytime soon…because, according to the Church, it’s either a baby or abstinence.

And we are both miserable.

But we won’t ever Divorce. Its just not an option.

I don’t concern myself with such pettiness.

Tis author clearly has no idea what its like to actually have issues and difficulties within a marriage.
But that is the secular wold for you. They make it easy for themselves and when its hard they quit.

 

[Xantippe]

I think the author has a misunderstanding of the circularity of the direction of causation of sex and marital success. Does bonding through sex promote a good relationship? Yes, but a good relationship is required for fulfilling sex to occur.

Also, there are seasons in marriages, with waxing and waning periods. I think a popular secular misconception is that any loss you experience augur permanent changes. More likely than not, hurdles are temporary.

Here’s another issue with the sex thing–if frequent sex is the end all be all for marriage, why is it that a lot of relationships start out with sex-sex-sex and then peter out? If the author were correct, the frequent sex would fuel more frequent sex which would fuel yet more frequent sex. It ought to produce a sort of sex perpetual motion machine.

(Wow–that was a lot of usages of the word “sex.” Sorry!)

 

[Xantippe]

Also, I think what constitutes an intimate conversation can vary based on the personalities of the two people involved. For example, my husband and I probably wouldn’t seem like we had very intimate conversations to an outside observer as it’s mostly about work, the kids, video games, music, etc. But what they may miss is all the inside jokes and references that are intertwined into the conversation. Also, I don’t do small talk. Period. It’s painful for me. So to just chat about a book or a movie with someone is actually a very big thing for me that reveals the depth of the relationship I have with that person.

Right.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m more concerned with the last bit:
The intimate conversations part.
I believe, yes that these are the conversations that are relevant to the couple only.
Nothing that can be discussed and RESOLVED by bringing in others.
In other words, you can’t “stuff” your feelings to make someone else’s life easier. Because it always backfires. Sacrifice is one thing. But letting someone else’s opinions drive every single decision, is not conducive to “intimate” conversation.

 

[MamaJewel]

I don’t agree with the counselor because in way too many marriages, the sex gets great when infidelity is occurring.

Communication is more essential to keeping a marriage long-term.

And it does take two for a marriage. If one spouse is detached or indifferent, the concerned, sacrificing spouse will just give and give until there is nothing left. When the concerned spouse does shift some responsibility onto the detached spouse, the detached spouse will often leave. The detached spouse wasn’t vested in the first place and doesn’t necessarily have the desire to be. Many people are in relationships for what they can get out of it (in today’s Western, first-world cultures) imho

 

[alphawoman]

Here’s another issue with the sex thing–if frequent sex is the end all be all for marriage, why is it that a lot of relationships start out with sex-sex-sex and then peter out? If the author were correct, the frequent sex would fuel more frequent sex which would fuel yet more frequent sex. It ought to produce a sort of sex perpetual motion machine.

(Wow–that was a lot of usages of the word “sex.” Sorry!)

Xantippe, you crack me up, lady!

Quick! Get a patent for that concept!!!

I’ll just start talking about inflection points in sexual expression in relationships to dull the conversation right back down. There, I think I hear crickets. Or is it the whirring of the perpetual motion machine?

 

[St_Francis]

Marriages are for better or worse. Thing is, sometimes things are better; sometimes they are worse. And in most marriages, if the two stick it out through the worse parts, better will come along.

Marriage is a cleaving; the two become one and their lives become one. Life has its ups and downs, and the downs are usually followed by ups. So marriage is like life.

 

[Deus_tecum]

I think it is counterproductive for a Catholic to read secular self help articles when they need guidance.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Part of the purpose in marriage is to be there for outsiders.

If time and money permit they should have a hobby room - half hers, half his. NOT TV.

It should all be geared to finding out about BEING. You should have intimacy without intensity.

 

[Xantippe]

Part of the purpose in marriage is to be there for outsiders.

If time and money permit they should have a hobby room - half hers, half his. NOT TV.

It should all be geared to finding out about BEING. You should have intimacy without intensity.

I have to confess to watching a lot of TV with my husband. He is a hobby guy, but I’m totally not. That’s just not who I am–it’s not my idea of a good time. My idea of a good time is figuring out which character in a Brit murder series fatally whacked the other over the head with a cricket bat and why or watching a Swedish detective series together and grousing about why so many of the villains have to be sinister Eastern Europeans.

But we only watch stuff that we both like.

 

[Xantippe]

I think it is counterproductive for a Catholic to read secular self help articles when they need guidance.

Or at least just random internet articles.

I know a lot of people on the forum really like John Gottman for marriage advice, but he has quite a different approach than the one E_7 shared with us. (I haven’t gotten through a whole JG book, but I like what I’ve seen of his approach, since it seems grounded in positive reinforcement.)

I also like Sheila Wray Gregoire (the Evangelical writer) for marriage advice.

tolovehonorandvacuum.com/

She’s very kind and sensible.

 

[Kelfa28]

I think it is counterproductive for a Catholic to read secular self help articles when they need guidance.

Nah…I disagree.

I think there are plenty of really good secular articles out there that can help a marriage out…especially if you are looking online and need quick and cheap advice.

Believe it or not…secular people and and do appreciate Marriage too and have had plenty of success too.

enough where I’d trust them to help out my marriage if need be.

Part of the purpose in marriage is to be there for outsiders.

If time and money permit they should have a hobby room - half hers, half his. NOT TV.

It should all be geared to finding out about BEING. You should have intimacy without intensity.

Hubby and I watch lots of TV together. We find a series on Amazon Prime or Netflix and pop popcorn and have a beer together.

We’ll cuddle and discuss the show.

Right now funds and time are not a luxury we have.

We’ve got three really young kids and don’t have extra money or time even for a date night…let alone for a hobby.

So for now…TV it is!

 

[pensmama87]

Hubby and I watch lots of TV together. We find a series on Amazon Prime or Netflix and pop popcorn and have a beer together.

We’ll cuddle and discuss the show.

Right now funds and time are not a luxury we have.

We’ve got three really young kids and don’t have extra money or time even for a date night…let alone for a hobby.

So for now…TV it is!

Yup, same boat here.