Marriage. Indissoluable in Orthodoxy?

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UbiCaritas15

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I’m not going to assume that all Orthodox Christians have the same views on marriage, because I don’t know. So my question is: what, how and why are the Orthodox views on marriage?

Also, if this has been addressed before (and I’m sure that is the case) and no one feels anything new to add, would someone be kind enough to link me this discussion?

Thank you 😃
 
I will say one thing… In the Byzantine tradition, one liturgy for the sacrament is used for the first marriage and a different liturgy for later marriages. A second marriage does not have the same sacramental character as the first (even if the first spouse is dead).
 
Thank you 🙂

When you say Byzantine, does this mean in communion with Rome or no.
And, can a second marriage be while a spouse (I’m guessing former) is still alive?

Thanks again!
 
UbiCaritas15 said:
Thank you 🙂

When you say Byzantine, does this mean in communion with Rome or no.
And, can a second marriage be while a spouse (I’m guessing former) is still alive?

Thanks again!
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The Eastern Orthodox Byzantines can (far more rarely than us issuing annulments) be dispensed to have a second marriage while the first spouse is living. It is a lesser form of the sacrament than the first one.

The Eastern Catholic Byzantines require an annulment for a second marriage while the first spouse is living since we are in Communion with Rome. A second marriage after the death of the first spouse is a lesser form of the sacrament than the first one (I don’t know how this works with annulled couples remarrying).
 
Zekariya said:
The Eastern Orthodox Byzantines can (far more rarely than us issuing annulments) be dispensed to have a second marriage while the first spouse is living. It is a lesser form of the sacrament than the first one.

The Eastern Catholic Byzantines require an annulment for a second marriage while the first spouse is living since we are in Communion with Rome. A second marriage after the death of the first spouse is a lesser form of the sacrament than the first one (I don’t know how this works with annulled couples remarrying).
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May I ask about scenarios that would allow for dispensations?

As far as with an annulment, I would imagine a marriage would be a fully sacramental one as the other did not exist.

I appreciate your information 🙂
 
Marriage is Meant to last a life time of the spouses. If either die - the other spouse is free to marry again if they so choose to. My mother has out-lived two husbands – both died of cancer – 20 years apart. And the man she married after my father died had also lost his 1st spouse to cancer. She is now 95.
Our daughter was divorced – she didn’t Want that – she wanted counseling. She did remarry as did her ex-husband.
Only Biblical grounds for divorce is adultery – but it isn’t mandatory. Legal separation is sometimes considered. They are both legally responsible for their own finances. And there is always the potential for them to reconcile.
Also – if a spouse is deserted by the other spouse – if one of them simply leaves – for whatever reason. And then divorces the other spouse – the ‘believing’ spouse is not to fight the divorce – and the remaining spouse is free to remarry is they choose to.
But once there Has been a divorce and remarriage and a 2nd divorce – neither spouse is to remarry the 1st spouse.
But – our former son-in-law Could so he Did. It was his choice – which was a Bad choice. And he’s been very vengeful. We also realize he’s suffering from Post Traumatic Stress – He’d spent a year in Iraq and their older son died in a home accident two years ago.

Marriage was put together by God and His intention has been for it to last a life time. However long that ends up being.
 
UbiCaritas15 said:
May I ask about scenarios that would allow for dispensations?

As far as with an annulment, I would imagine a marriage would be a fully sacramental one as the other did not exist.

I appreciate your information 🙂
Click to expand...
I have never experienced Orthodox remarriage but I know that we give out annulments more frequently than the more strict Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions give second marriages. An Eastern Orthodox priest may allow a second marriage when failed first marriage is seen as having died. A second marriage is most likely to be allowed for the one spouse of which is not seen as the reason for the collapse of the marriage.

The second marriage liturgy is penitential in its hymns and prayers concerning the fact that the person’s first marriage died. A second marriage requires a dispensation given in order to help the person’s salvation (that he/she might not live burning with lust).

A second marriage after the death of a spouse is also penitential because of St Paul’s saying in the Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 7:6-9 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself [unmarried after the death of a spouse]. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

[Red is my comment.]
 
crochet_lady said:
Marriage is Meant to last a life time of the spouses. If either die - the other spouse is free to marry again if they so choose to. My mother has out-lived two husbands – both died of cancer – 20 years apart. And the man she married after my father died had also lost his 1st spouse to cancer. She is now 95.
Our daughter was divorced – she didn’t Want that – she wanted counseling. She did remarry as did her ex-husband.
Only Biblical grounds for divorce is adultery – but it isn’t mandatory. Legal separation is sometimes considered. They are both legally responsible for their own finances. And there is always the potential for them to reconcile.
Also – if a spouse is deserted by the other spouse – if one of them simply leaves – for whatever reason. And then divorces the other spouse – the ‘believing’ spouse is not to fight the divorce – and the remaining spouse is free to remarry is they choose to.
But once there Has been a divorce and remarriage and a 2nd divorce – neither spouse is to remarry the 1st spouse.
But – our former son-in-law Could so he Did. It was his choice – which was a Bad choice. And he’s been very vengeful. We also realize he’s suffering from Post Traumatic Stress – He’d spent a year in Iraq and their older son died in a home accident two years ago.

Marriage was put together by God and His intention has been for it to last a life time. However long that ends up being.
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This thread asks about the Orthodox Christian view of marriage. You post seems a bit off topic. 🙂
 
The Coptic Orthodox Church only allows divorce in a few very, very limited circumstances – basically only in cases of adultery and apostasy, as these are the only Biblically-defined reasons for it. This has created some very difficult circumstances in Egypt, wherein Christians have been known to go before Muslim courts in order to get divorces in circumstances where the Church would not grant them, since Islamic law is much easier about divorce. 😦
 
Zekariya said:
I have never experienced Orthodox remarriage but I know that we give out annulments more frequently than the more strict Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions give second marriages. An Eastern Orthodox priest may allow a second marriage when failed first marriage is seen as having died. A second marriage is most likely to be allowed for the one spouse of which is not seen as the reason for the collapse of the marriage.

The second marriage liturgy is penitential in its hymns and prayers concerning the fact that the person’s first marriage died. A second marriage requires a dispensation given in order to help the person’s salvation (that he/she might not live burning with lust).

A second marriage after the death of a spouse is also penitential because of St Paul’s saying in the Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 7:6-9 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself [unmarried after the death of a spouse]. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

[Red is my comment.]
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First, thank you for the link in your most recent comment. 🙂

Off topic but you brought it up. Do we know Paul had a wife that passed or had he never married? I don’t imagine that is a big deal, but I hadn’t heard this before so it interests me.

Thank you!!!
 
dzheremi said:
The Coptic Orthodox Church only allows divorce in a few very, very limited circumstances – basically only in cases of adultery and apostasy, as these are the only Biblically-defined reasons for it. This has created some very difficult circumstances in Egypt, wherein Christians have been known to go before Muslim courts in order to get divorces in circumstances where the Church would not grant them, since Islamic law is much easier about divorce. 😦
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Thank you!! 🙂
 
UbiCaritas15 said:
First, thank you for the link in your most recent comment. 🙂

Off topic but you brought it up. Do we know Paul had a wife that passed or had he never married? I don’t imagine that is a big deal, but I hadn’t heard this before so it interests me.

Thank you!!!
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I know that St Cyril of Jerusalem, among other early Church Fathers, believed that St Paul was a widower. However, there is really no unanimous position on that matter from the Church Fathers.

Let those also who marry but once not reprobate those who have consented to a second marriage : for though continence is a noble and admirable thing, yet it is also permissible to enter upon a second marriage, that the weak may not fall into fornication. For it is good for them, says the Apostle, if they abide even as I. But if they have not continency, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. But let all the other practices be banished afar, fornication, adultery, and every kind of licentiousness: and let the body be kept pure for the Lord, that the Lord also may have respect unto the body. And let the body be nourished with food, that it may live, and serve without hindrance; not, however, that it may be given up to luxuries.
Clement, indeed, whose words we have just quoted, after the above-mentioned facts gives a statement, on account of those who rejected marriage, of the apostles that had wives. “Or will they,” says he, “reject even the apostles? For Peter and Philip begat children; and Philip also gave his daughters in marriage. And Paul does not hesitate, in one of his epistles, to greet his wife, whom he did not take about with him, that he might not be inconvenienced in his ministry.”
 
Zekariya said:
I know that St Cyril of Jerusalem, among other early Church Fathers, believed that St Paul was a widower. However, there is really no unanimous position on that matter from the Church Fathers.

Let those also who marry but once not reprobate those who have consented to a second marriage : for though continence is a noble and admirable thing, yet it is also permissible to enter upon a second marriage, that the weak may not fall into fornication. For it is good for them, says the Apostle, if they abide even as I. But if they have not continency, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. But let all the other practices be banished afar, fornication, adultery, and every kind of licentiousness: and let the body be kept pure for the Lord, that the Lord also may have respect unto the body. And let the body be nourished with food, that it may live, and serve without hindrance; not, however, that it may be given up to luxuries.
Clement, indeed, whose words we have just quoted, after the above-mentioned facts gives a statement, on account of those who rejected marriage, of the apostles that had wives. “Or will they,” says he, “reject even the apostles? For Peter and Philip begat children; and Philip also gave his daughters in marriage. And Paul does not hesitate, in one of his epistles, to greet his wife, whom he did not take about with him, that he might not be inconvenienced in his ministry.”
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Thanks! Happy to learn something new 🙂
 
“Zek” Since God instituted marriage – how could my comments be off-topic. We went through this with our older daughter regarding her divorce and remarriage – she wanted to know where she stood Biblically. So we helped her research it Biblically.
 
Crochet Lady,

The OP asked about Orthodox views on marriage and divorce, which are not necessarily the same as those of the Baptist church or churches. Your post was not off-topic in its content, but was presumably not what the OP was looking for.
 
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