Marriage Invalid - Lack of Form?

  • Thread starter Thread starter doremi1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

doremi1

Guest
Hi, I will be Baptized on 7 Apr 07.

I am in love with a Catholic man and I would like to seek you advise on how can we be a lawful couple in the eyes of God.

He married a Catholic girl in (Year). It was an outside-the-church marriage before a justice and without any presence of a properly delegated priest and any witnesses. The marriage soon ended 2 years later.

He cohabitated with his 2nd wife soon after his divorce for 5 years and subsequently married her (she was a non-catholic then). The marriage is again a civil marriage. He has a legitimate son of 1.5 years old from his 2nd wife. They have recently filed a Deed of Separation. She and their son will be Baptized on 8 Apr 07.

Father, I would like to seek your answers to the following questions:

a. Can he receive Holy Eucharist as his first marriage isn’t annulled and he remarried his 2nd wife outside church?

b. Does he need to annul both marriages in order for us to be married in church?

c. How long will the annulment process take?

d. How his ex-spouses are involved? Do they need to counter-sign on the petitions? What happen if the ex-spouses refused to cooperation in the annulment process? Will the annulment process be put to a stop? Does he need to meet face to face with the ex-spouses for the whole process?

e. Will the legitimate son affect the decision in granting the annulment?

f. If the annulment fails, can we married outside church and still receive Holy Eucharist?

g. If the annulment fails, can we stay together but remain chaste? Do we need to fo for confession to receive Holy Eucharist?

h. Do you think it is worthwhile for him to pursue for the annulment? What is the possibility of success?

i. Based on his case, will his 2 marriages recognized as invalid by the Catholic Church because of a “lack of form.”?

j. When can he start the annulment process? After he has issued a Decree Nisi Absolute?
 
you did not post this on thAAA forum, or the correct forum which is liturgy and sacraments, if you search on either forum under annulment you find a wealth of info and great links on the topic

every marriage situation is unique and it is pointless and fruitless to offer an opinion here. He, not you, must approach his pastor, give all the facts of all his previous and current marriages (I don’t understand his status from your post), which must all be investigated by the marriage tribunal for a judgement. Until that is done, he is not free to marry, he is not free to date, and he is certainly not free to fall in love or induce someone to fall in love with him, or initiate a relationship where falling in love is the result.

You are not part of his life beyond friendship until his marital status is resolved. Right now, his first marriage is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is quite possible it was invalid due to lack of form, but you cannot possibly be in possession of all the facts, that is why there is an investigation. If the first marriage was invalid, the second marriage is then investigated, and so on.

You must take the same course in the meantime. If you were Catholic at the time of your wedding it is quite likely it will be declared valid due to lack of form. There are no guarantees, because it is not possible or useful to ascertain all the facts here. Go to your pastor and start the process now. Until then, you may not date or become romantically involved with anyone else.
 
Hi, I will be Baptized on 7 Apr 07.

I am in love with a Catholic man and I would like to seek you advise on how can we be a lawful couple in the eyes of God.

He married a Catholic girl in (Year). It was an outside-the-church marriage before a justice and without any presence of a properly delegated priest and any witnesses. The marriage soon ended 2 years later.

He cohabitated with his 2nd wife soon after his divorce for 5 years and subsequently married her (she was a non-catholic then). The marriage is again a civil marriage. He has a legitimate son of 1.5 years old from his 2nd wife. They have recently filed a Deed of Separation. She and their son will be Baptized on 8 Apr 07.

Father, I would like to seek your answers to the following questions:

a. Can he receive Holy Eucharist as his first marriage isn’t annulled and he remarried his 2nd wife outside church?

b. Does he need to annul both marriages in order for us to be married in church?

c. How long will the annulment process take?

d. How his ex-spouses are involved? Do they need to counter-sign on the petitions? What happen if the ex-spouses refused to cooperation in the annulment process? Will the annulment process be put to a stop? Does he need to meet face to face with the ex-spouses for the whole process?

e. Will the legitimate son affect the decision in granting the annulment?

f. If the annulment fails, can we married outside church and still receive Holy Eucharist?

g. If the annulment fails, can we stay together but remain chaste? Do we need to fo for confession to receive Holy Eucharist?

h. Do you think it is worthwhile for him to pursue for the annulment? What is the possibility of success?

i. Based on his case, will his 2 marriages recognized as invalid by the Catholic Church because of a “lack of form.”?

j. When can he start the annulment process? After he has issued a Decree Nisi Absolute?
 
multiple posts are against forum rules

see your priest

advise your friend to see his priest immediately
 
You’ve asked this question in a couple of forums, and you are asking very detailed specific questions about your situation and your friend’s situation which no one here can answer.

The answers lie with your own priest, in your own diocese.

I know you are distressed by the situation, but the best way to get it resolved is for each of you to go and talk to the priest and he can guide you through what you need to do.
 
1ke said:
Take these questions to your priest.
Click to expand...
Agree with this.

You have a complicated situation, and only someone who is schooled in canon law, and in an appropriate position, should be answering these questions for you to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding.

~Liza
 
I would carefully read PuzzleAnnie’s post as well…the red flags that are all over this relationship are too many to go into online. This is a very serious situation and quite frankly it is more important that you be given strong spiritual guideance so that you may live your life according to Catholic Teachings and eventually go to heaven than it is for you to be involved with a married man.

but what do I know? I’m a niner fan…
 
I had typed up a response, with my limited knowledge, to your questions, but have decided not to post them after reading LSK’s advice.

You are to be baptised soon- congratulations! Please, do not involve yourself further with this poor man until he has sought counsel and received final resolution regarding his previous marriages. It is pointless for you to be involved in this because he has no business having any sort of romantic relationship with you at all. Do not invest yourself in someone who does not care enough for himself or his church to pursue annulments without your help or encouragement.
 
I would be very concerned that this man even has any idea about the permanency of marriage. To marry twice outside the Church and then to be romatically involved with another woman while he is still married should be sending up some pretty big red flags for you. Slow down. Talk to a priest, and think this through!!
 
I’m graduating in civil law this year and I’ve done a course in canon law during it, so I can give you some suggestions, sure, but in your complicated situation you need to consult the tribunal. Of course you need to talk to your priest, but your priest is not necessarily a canon lawyer, nor does he have the power to change anything in your situation, so you need to consult the tribunal (it’s not a pastoral matter, it’s a legal one). Most likely his past marriages are invalid (they are invalid unless there was a dispensation from canonical form), but he still needs to go through the investigations.
 
As for your other concerns, whether he can or cannot receive the Eucharist, in his current situation as a chaste man, that’s a matter for confession. Being in the state of mortal sin means one can’t receive. If he is in that state, he needs to go to confession. If he doesn’t know, he needs to go to confession.

He needs to have declarations of nullity for his two previous marriages. As he was a Catholic and attempted marriage before a civil judge, the proceedings will be simple and will come down to showing proof it was before a judge, there was dispensation etc. Investigation from documents is short and simplified. Even a normal nullity proceeding is typically more efficient than a civil divorce lawsuit.

His exes don’t need to sign anything. They will need to be contacted, but that’s it. They cannot hold him hostage by not replying to anything and thus halting the proceedings. If they do not reply in any way, the tribunal will still proceed. It’s enough that he wants to challenge those “marriages”, they can’t block it.

The existence of the son has no effect whatsoever on the validity of marriage and his will in no way affects it, either. The question of his legitimacy (which is separate in civil and in canon law) has no bearing either.

There is no decision and granting per se. The tribunal does not “decide” to “annul” your marriage. The tribunal only has the power to investigate whether your marriage is valid or not. The ruling of the tribunal is a declaration, not a constitutive decision (i.e. it doesn’t make any new reality). A valid marriage cannot be made null or nullified. “Annulment” is a wrong term. What you receive is a declaration of nullity. Annulment in the proper sense would be the same as divorce, except scratching the record instead of just interrupting it.

You cannot receive while having sexual relations with each other and not being married in the eyes of the church. Civil weddings have no power to dodge that.

You cannot receive communion in the state of mortal sin. You are obliged as a Catholic to go to confession. Confession is not only for when they decree you can’t receive. Confession is a normal part of a Catholic life.

I can tell you what is not worthwile: what is not worthwile is living in mortal sin. 😉 What is also not worthwile is giving up on the nullity proceedings and deciding to give up sex forever because of that.

Unless the previous marriages actually had dispensation - and he would have known if they had had, unless there had been a general dispensation in place, which is highly doubtful (nonetheless, general dispensations from canonical form happen in areas with scarce priests and churches).

The tribunal will tell him everything. The proceeding starts with his filing the claim with all attachments, and for that he needs to consult a real canon lawyer ASAP. He has no power to issue anything, maybe you mean obtain? There’s no need to obtain any decrees, however, to challenge a marriage in the tribunal.

This should be enough to satisfy your curiosity for the time being and to give you some simplified outlook, but you need to contact the tribunal as soon as possible. There’s simply no slacking and no going around that. It’s something that must be done. The tribunal is not merely the right source of knowledge. It’s the only institution entitled to deal with his situation.
 
This may seem quite harsh, and I don’t intend to be mean, but rather blunt.

I understand you are “in love” with this guy.

Have you really stopped to take a look at his track record? And have you really stopped to consider what his track record means? He is in and out of two marriages; in neither of them did he follow what the Church requires (seems to have an attitude about authority?). Just as a curiosity, since you seem intent on spending your life with him, have you spoken with either of his former spouses to find out their side of the story as to why neither of these marriages lasted? I am sure he has told you “His side” of the story; but for every story like that, there is another side. Considering that you are lining up to be his third wife, perhaps that might not be worthy of exploration?

It is one thing to be in love with someone; that is an emotion, and emotions, in and of themselves are niether bad nor good; they are just emotions.

However, when we start making decisions based on our emotions, and not a lot else, we are building a house on a foundation of sand. Emotions come; often seemingly unbidden; they also go away. And if there is no solid foundation beyond the emotion, then what will there be to sustain your choice?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top