Marriage is misery. Bottom line.

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrpathetic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
:console:
mrpathetic said:
I am getting help. My therapist is providing it. My wife is being extremely recalcitrant. She is not cooperating, and refuses to attend these counseling sessions. Nor will she read any of the materials I have purchased for her, or take any affirmative action, to address the problem. She just wants out.

I cannot control her, manipulate her, or force her to stay. I need to do what I can, to convince her to stay. That means changing me, not her. Then she can decide to change herself. And in the process, our marriage may be saved.

I appreciate your hopes and prayers, during this painful, excrutiating time of my life.

God bless.
Click to expand...
From experience don’t try to change, you’re not at fault. We have choices and if she chose that path then she’s responsible for her own actions. Please don’t make this your fault.

Still praying for you!
 
Mr P - You need to take control. Make a decision. Things are not going to get better.

You are the wronged party. I am not a lawyer, but I think to protect yourself you need to take the first step. She is an adulterer and refuses to live with you as man and wife.

Divorce her civilly. Talk to a priest about presenting your case to the marriage tribunal.

I can’t see how staying married while your teen is at home is a good thing. Teens know what goes on. This is not a stable, happy household.

I pray the Holy Spirit with comfort you and guide you through this
 
PaulinVA said:
I can’t see how staying married while your teen is at home is a good thing. Teens know what goes on. This is not a stable, happy household.
**
And it shows an example… if your teen is later in a bad marital situation they may blame themselves and stick with it because that is what dad did. Sometimes the easiest way to figure out what is “right” is to think of the advice you would give your own child were they facing the same situation.**

I pray the Holy Spirit with comfort you and guide you through this

Me too:signofcross:
Click to expand...
 
Dear Mr. Pathfinder (I refuse to call you pathetic),

There are two sides to this story.

I have had many lesbian friends, including two who tried very hard to be “normal.” Their marriages didn’t work, either.

It doesn’t seem to have occurred to you that you couldn’t “satisfy” her was because no man could. She may have entered the marriage with the best of intentions, like my friends did - but now, her intention is to get out.

The most loving thing you can do for her is to let her go. Let her go live the lesbian lifestyle. If she doesn’t like it, maybe she’ll come back. Maybe she’ll find the organization Courage, and come back to the Church. But after all this time, I doubt that you’ll be able to change her mind.

Nobody says you have to seek a decree of nullity; just that you have good grounds. And I think people are also trying to make the point that your marriage may be null anyway, in spite of the seriousness of your own vows. But that is your business, not any of mine.

The whole point of nullity comes from “What God has put together, let no man put asunder.” Some marriages happen because one or both partners is ignoring God - in other words, God did **not **bring them together; human willfulness did. If your wife knew or suspected she was a lesbian when you wed, she was ignoring God calling her to celibacy.

One thing I will say. For the sake of justice, and for your children, who need that justice, she should be the one to move out. She broke the marriage. To let her force you to move out is just another way of letting her blame you.

And I will say once again - YOU did NOT make her into a lesbian. All the ones I have known *knew *they were “different” at a very young age - before 1st grade.

God bless you,

Ruthie
 
Sir,

Certainly our suffering is something that connects us to the sacrificial love of Christ, but you seem to believe that suffering is something that God WANTS for us.

God does NOT WANT his children to suffer - this is why he sent Christ! The fact that we can align with Christ the suffering we do have in an imperfect world is a blessing yes, but is not mandatory to our salvation! Nor is it MANDATORY to put ourselves in positions / NOR REMAIN IN POSITIONS of suffering, just for the sake of suffering.

It sounds like your marriage is NOT a sacramental marriage. What is the benefit for you to remain and suffer in a marriage that isn’t or never was blessed by God? Just for the sake of SUFFERING???
 
mrpathetic said:
My wife claims that, early in our marriage, I was not a sensitive, caring, responsive lover. I tried to satisfy her sexually, including performing OS, and several other things that I never did before. My wife claims that she has never been sexually satisfied by me, and has never experienced an *rgasm with me. Maybe I should have been more sensitive or caring … althought I tried. I really tried.

Is this the explanation as to why she has become a lesbian? Honestly, I don’t know. She didn’t exhibit any of these tendancies, before our marriage. Of course, a homosexual can remain latent, for quite some time. Or maybe my wife had these desires, but just never communicated them to me. I just don’t know.

Is she open to counseling? No. She just wants out. She is unwilling to come to my counseling sessions with my therapist, or to do anything proactive to save our marriage. Whenever I propose something new or different, to make improvements in our marriage, she just gets more angry and vengeful.

She wants to be with whatever lesbian paramour she has at the moment. She has told me that she will file for divorce sometime in the next 2 years. That is when my youngest child will graduate from high school, and presumably leave for college. Then I am supposed to leave the home, and make way for whomever will take my place (presumably another woman.)

I live in a no-fault divorce state, so I will almost certainly have to accept the results of the civil divorce. If that happens, I will have grounds for separation, under the church law. Both adultery, and abandonment of the faith, are valid reasons, for “separation of bed and board”. My wife has done both things. So I will be able to remain in full communion with the church.

Honestly, that is how I see the situation playing about - barring some massive change in my wife. And I don’t see that happening. If that happens, the church expects me to take either a private vow of celibacy, or a public one, and continue with my life. This will be my “new” cross to bear. I will take it up - if and when, the time comes.
Click to expand...
Let her get out of the marriage and get an annulment. Don’t let her drag you down with her. I’ve been in a similar situation. Otherwise, you’ll end up leaving your faith and fall into, possibly, similar behavior. Let go of this marriage. It’s too bad for you.
 
Kronos said:
Let her get out of the marriage and get an annulment. Don’t let her drag you down with her. I’ve been in a similar situation. Otherwise, you’ll end up leaving your faith and fall into, possibly, similar behavior. Let go of this marriage. It’s too bad for you.
Click to expand...
My wife will not initiate the process for the annulment. As I have mentioned previously, she is the one who has abandoned the Catholic faith, and become an agnostic. If she leaves me, then she will file for civil divorce, but won’t even consider the corresponding task of annulment. Why should she petition for an annulment from a church to which she no longer belongs?

Then I will face the annulment challenge myself - if I even decide to go down that route. I could simply remain separated and celibate. At this point, I see no reason to remarry. The whole point behind annulment, is to remove the impediments to a new marriage, or to join the religious vocations. I just don’t have the call to that right now. Maybe I will have this in the future, but right now, I am too heartbroken and depressed to take on that challenge.

I was called to marriage, as part of my vocation, twenty years ago. This is the life state to which Christ called me. I have failed. So perhaps Christ wants me to become a committed single, and serve him that way.

In the meantime, until I am forced to face the single, celibate life, I will continue to fight for my marriage. It may be completely hopeless, and indeed pointless, under the current circumstances. I will continue praying for a miracle. I will approach this with the same faith as someone with a terminal disease. I place myself in God’s hands, and trust in his mercy. Your prayers will be greatly appreciated.
 
mrpathetic said:
My wife will not initiate the process for the annulment.

I think he meant have her leave and YOU file for a declaration of nullity

The whole point behind annulment, is to remove the impediments to a new marriage, or to join the religious vocations.
**
It can also help you heal. IF your marriage was not valid from the start then there was nothing for you to “fail” at. If your marriage was never valid then you can stop blaming yourself and start healing from this horribly painful ordeal.**

I was called to marriage, as part of my vocation, twenty years ago. This is the life state to which Christ called me. I have failed. So perhaps Christ wants me to become a committed single, and serve him that way.

You have not failed. You have not failed in any way anymore than a person with a terminal illness. You have been given a cross…

In the meantime, until I am forced to face the single, celibate life, I will continue to fight for my marriage. It may be completely hopeless, and indeed pointless, under the current circumstances. I will continue praying for a miracle. I will approach this with the same faith as someone with a terminal disease. I place myself in God’s hands, and trust in his mercy. Your prayers will be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
**I will add my prayers to yours. I will pray that God’s will be done, whatever that may be.
**
 
mrpathetic said:
My wife will not initiate the process for the annulment. As I have mentioned previously, she is the one who has abandoned the Catholic faith, and become an agnostic. If she leaves me, then she will file for civil divorce, but won’t even consider the corresponding task of annulment. Why should she petition for an annulment from a church to which she no longer belongs?

Then I will face the annulment challenge myself - if I even decide to go down that route. I could simply remain separated and celibate. At this point, I see no reason to remarry. The whole point behind annulment, is to remove the impediments to a new marriage, or to join the religious vocations. I just don’t have the call to that right now. Maybe I will have this in the future, but right now, I am too heartbroken and depressed to take on that challenge.

I was called to marriage, as part of my vocation, twenty years ago. This is the life state to which Christ called me. I have failed. So perhaps Christ wants me to become a committed single, and serve him that way.

In the meantime, until I am forced to face the single, celibate life, I will continue to fight for my marriage. It may be completely hopeless, and indeed pointless, under the current circumstances. I will continue praying for a miracle. I will approach this with the same faith as someone with a terminal disease. I place myself in God’s hands, and trust in his mercy. Your prayers will be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
I’m no marriage conselor and don’t even play one on TV, but it sounds to me like you are twisting the Church’s position into a crutch to allow you to avoid dealing with a very painful and hopeless situation. You no longer have a marriage to work on. Your wife is gone for all purposes to you.

You need to move on. It would be healthier to live apart than continue to live a lie. If she pursues a civil divorce, it may actually offer you some financial protection you should be concerned about–particularly with children.

As for annullment, that can come in time. But don’t assume because this woman deceived and abandoned you that you are required to live out a life of misery. That is NOT what the Church expects of her members…particularly those who likely never had a valid marriage.

You are entitled to peace and a satisfying marriage if you are called to that vocation. Don’t hide from your life’s calling. God has clearly endowed you with some wonderful gifts which would enhance a legitimate marriage and family life. The only sin I see would be wasting those gifts. Best wishes.
 
I re-read the story of the agony in the garden today. Here is the key exerpt, from Mark’s gospel:

35
He advanced a little and fell to the ground and prayed that if it were possible the hour might pass by him;
36
he said, “Abba, Father, 12 all things are possible to you. Take this cup away from me, but not what I will but what you will.”

I feel like I am in Gethsemane. I can relate to Christ’s feelings, at this point during the Passion narrative. A great suffering is coming. Christ’s suffering is on the Cross. My suffering is my marriage. Christ suffered for all of our sins. I suffer for my own sins, and those of my wife. His torments came in the form of nails and a spear. Mine are in the vicious and cruel actions of my wife.

(On the eve of Thanksgiving, I tried once again to sleep in the same physical space as my wife - in our own master bedroom. My wife refused to sleep with me there. Now I sleep on a couch, and my wife has returned to the master bedroom. There are times that it is more humiliating than I can bear.)

I pray that the Lord will remove this suffering from my path. However, I will accept whatever suffering that God deems necessary for my salvation.

John Paul II wrote and spoke many times, about the power of redemptive suffering. He was a man who knew many types of suffering during his life - both physical and emotional, especially towards the end. But he never gave up or quit.

I probably should quit on my marriage. It seems pointless, hopeless, even foolish. But I won’t quit. Not while there is even a slightest chance for redemption, for myself, my wife, and my marriage.
 
I can understand your sentiments, mr p, as you are uniting your sufferings with Christ. Only you can determine what is enough.

You’re in my prayers…and so is your wife.

Why did you choose that pic for your signature, may I ask? Why do you want everyone to know how long you and your wife have gone without sex?:confused: Just curious.
 
Because the lack of sexual innercourse is driving me insane, and driving me to sin. It is become unbearable. I created the banner, to remind me of how long the struggle has gone on - and to remind me how long it could continue.

I know our faith’s canons against adultery, remarriage, masturbation, etc. I follow them absolutely. Therefore, I have not had any type of sexual release in years. It makes me more than just sad - it makes me feel weak, pathetic, worthless, abandoned, unloveable.

It has badly damaged my self-image, and my sense of self-worth. I have focused all my energies, to restricting my sex drive, and trying to remain chaste.

It has manifested itself in several physical symptoms as well. I suffer from a number of stress-related illnesses, including depression, anxiety and high-blood pressure.

My therapist has shown me that these symptoms are most likely the result of my lack of sexual release. The year these illnesses started was the year after my wife began denying me sex. The symptoms have only gotten worse and worse, as the years go by.

In effect, this situation is killing me. That is one of the reasons why I relate so strongly to the Gethsemane narrative. My commitment to my marriage vows is killing me. I now have to decide if I follow this path, to its ultimate conclusion.
 
Jumping on this thread a bit late, I can’t help but remember a few other posters here over he years with the same thoughts and feelings.

In marriage, periodic abstinence is one thing, and then only for a very short while, as the bible explains, but to go that long without intercourse, for a married man, is basically a living hell. Especially since he didn’t choose this. It was not consensual, like a Josephite marriage.

I have read many times where posters say that the lack of sexual intimacy with their wives are driving them crazy.
The frustrations of being around the person they love and not able to be sexually intimate with them is almost unbearable.

It’s not like an unmarried chaste person, or a priest. these people are living with their spouses, hug them, kiss them, see them naked, sleep next to them, etc.
That’s the tough part.

And for mrpathetic not to have resorted to any sexual release is most certainly a very commendable accomplishment.
You are carrying your cross valiantly and I’m impressed.

I understand you are posting here because you need to express yourself and see what other folks have to say about it, and get some opinions, but the road you have been walking has been tough.

Extremely prolonged abstinence is very dangerous for a marriage and for the persons involved, I think more so the males.
Naturally, the body yearns for that intimacy with one’s spouse and if that is denied, on a subconscious level, the body will try to find that release elsewhere…be it with porn, adultery, masturbation, or a combination of them. Temptations comes very much into play here and that scenario is a tough one to live with and to be tempted with every day.
As well as the thoughts of rejection and loneliness…

I don’t have any advice for you brother, but I am very impressed with your courage and dedication to your marriage vows.

Much respect.
 
mrpathetic said:
Because the lack of sexual innercourse is driving me insane, and driving me to sin.

It has badly damaged my self-image, and my sense of self-worth. I have focused all my energies, to restricting my sex drive, and trying to remain chaste.

It has manifested itself in several physical symptoms as well. I suffer from a number of stress-related illnesses, including depression, anxiety and high-blood pressure.

In effect, this situation is killing me.
Click to expand...
Think that under the lack of sexual intercourse there is another reason for your physical symptoms - years of being put down, bullied and ridiculed. Adults like children learn from what they are told and you have certainly had more than your share of having your so-called faults pointed out to you.

With what you have been through I would be amazed if you were bright, cheerful and healthy. You may even have forgotten what it is like to be like that. Could this be making you see suffering in a more positive light than most people?

Also think you are also very strong - many of us would be no functioning with what you have been through. Such strength is both a blessing and a curse. Imagine how you could feel if you used your strength in a more positive way and were away from your wife’s verbal poisoning.
 
mrpathetic said:
I probably should quit on my marriage. It seems pointless, hopeless, even foolish. But I won’t quit. Not while there is even a slightest chance for redemption, for myself, my wife, and my marriage.
Click to expand...
In all Christian love, let me say that your wife quit on your marriage a long time ago. There is nothing there to salvage.

Take the lead, find a lawyer, and file for divorce.

I do not say this lightly. You are being abused and you need to stop it.
 
This is not your cross, this isn’t what God intended for your life. GET OUT run don’t walk, who cares about the house it’s four walls and crapper (pardon my language)…

Seriously man, your wife being a lesbian has to do with her own issues not yours, men don’t turn women into lesbians anymore than women turn men into homosexuals.

Your wife seems like a real monster and you should get an attorney and sue this woman for divorce ASAP, the marriage is over man, seriously.
 
Salonika said:
Think that under the lack of sexual intercourse **there is another reason for your physical symptoms - years of being put down, bullied and ridiculed. **Adults like children learn from what they are told and you have certainly had more than your share of having your so-called faults pointed out to you.

With what you have been through I would be amazed if you were bright, cheerful and healthy. You may even have forgotten what it is like to be like that. Could this be making you see suffering in a more positive light than most people?

Also think you are also very strong - many of us would be no functioning with what you have been through. Such strength is both a blessing and a curse. Imagine how you could feel if you used your strength in a more positive way and were away from your wife’s verbal poisoning.
Click to expand...
**
I totally agree, especially with the last paragraph. It takes two (well 3 actually) to make a marriage work. She is not doing her part and hasn’t been for a very long time, if ever.

I pray that our poster (I too refuse to call him pathetic) is open to God’s grace and strength to get past this and heal within himself.
**
 
I read where you stated that your wife would refuse to take part in an annulment process. Annulments, like civil divorce, continue on whether or not another participant refuses to take part in the process.

I cannot say that I have ever been in your situation, or know how hard your life is right now, but you deserve better than this. Start the process for an annulment, I honestly do not believe that you will have any trouble in the process. Annulments are not only meant to be a “declaration of nullity” of a marriage, it is also meant to be a healing process for people who have been in very bad marriages.

You are a child of God, and I am sure he does not want you to suffer needlessly.

Praying for you.

In Carmel,

Br. Allen
 
Understanding that annulment is the declaration that, despite good intentions on the part of the wronged party, there never was a valid contract TO BEGIN WITH.

And that information becomes evident by the present behavior of your wife - i.e., her predispositions, and her inability and unwillingness to fulfill HER side of the contract. One person alone cannot make a contract, which marriage is, by definition: it takes the TWO PEOPLE to create a VALID one. The breakdown is much more credibly attributed to insufficiency to begin with than to infidelity later on.

Reading your painful account reinforces my urging, like that the others say here, that you RUN, do not walk, to the rectory for the papers to initiate the process. And even if your wife refuses to cooperate, other witnesses’ statements will be sufficient, along with your own, to provide the tribunal with what they need for their investigation.

Something as patent as the intransigence your wife is demonstrating appears itself to be prima facie evidence of the sufficiency of her lack of consent from the beginning - “consent” meaning avowed intention to marry for life, with all that such a promise obviously entails. And rather than condemn her for blatant dishonesty about it, these kinds of situations are usually about immaturity and an underdeveloped emotional self at the time of the marriage.

“Father, forgive them for they know not what they are doing…” is not an excuse for sin, but a side of the issue that is easy to overlook. Perhaps sometimes sooner or later you will come to recognize how that applies in her case. It is certainly not your fault, and you cannot “carry” a contract unilaterally. The hardest part for you MAY BE to bridge that understanding, since it is quite human to over-blame ourselves inappropriately.

Reality is sometimes less than pretty, and such conditions are hardly a secret to God. It is rather quite the opposite.
 
Monicad:
Something to consider,

Don’t think of leaving for your sake…think of leaving for your wife’s sake. She is abusing you daily, this is bad for her soul. Hold her accountable for her actions, tough love may be what is needed to get her on the right track…

15 years of “bearing your cross” may have brought you some redemption…but not her. I don’t believe we are supposed to allow others to repeatedly abuse us, because then we are enabling them to commit sin.
Click to expand...
Dear Monicad

Thank you very much for your post which I hope the OP (I’m another of those who refuses to use his non de plume) finds as helpful as I do.

It gives an answer to those who accuse people who stand up to those who abuse them of being selfish and only thinking of themselves and/or that tell us we should always turn the other cheek.

Once again thank you
Salonika
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top