"Marriage is Not Consent"

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Dan_Grelinger

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Wisdom from Abigail Breslin, a 21 year old popular culture actress from New York City:

“you are not obligated
to have sex with someone
that you’re in a relationship with
dating is not consent
marriage is not consent”

So much is wrong with this. The world continues its path towards selfishness.

Dan Grelinger
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Wisdom from Abigail Breslin, a 21 year old popular culture actress from New York City:

“you are not obligated
to have sex with someone
that you’re in a relationship with
dating is not consent
marriage is not consent”

So much is wrong with this. The world continues its path towards selfishness.

Dan Grelinger
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What is wrong with that statement? Do you think its OK to rape someone just because you are in a relationship with that person?
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Wisdom from Abigail Breslin, a 21 year old popular culture actress from New York City:

“you are not obligated
to have sex with someone
that you’re in a relationship with
dating is not consent
marriage is not consent”

So much is wrong with this. The world continues its path towards selfishness.

Dan Grelinger
Click to expand...
I’m not seeing anything wrong with this. Marital rape is a real and serious issue.
 
Why would you want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex?

ETA: How is it selfish to not want to get raped by your spouse? I love my wife, I’d never do that to her.
 
The obvious implication of this statement is that you are allowed to engage in sexual activity with someone that you have a relationship with (other than a valid marriage), if you choose to do so.

What would be true would be to say:

“You are not PERMITTED to have sex
with anyone you have a relationship with
unless that person is your true spouse.”

In addition, marriage is consent.

From the catechism: "The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage.

“The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.”

Dan Grelinger
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
The obvious implication of this statement is that you are allowed to engage in sexual activity with someone that you have a relationship with (other than a valid marriage), if you choose to do so.

What would be true would be to say:

“You are not PERMITTED to have sex
with anyone you have a relationship with
unless that person is your true spouse.”

In addition, marriage is consent.

From the catechism: "The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage.

“The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.”

Dan Grelinger
Click to expand...
Really? That is a very odd thing to take away from her statement, which was anti-rape, not pro-fornication.
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
The obvious implication of this statement is that you are allowed to engage in sexual activity with someone that you have a relationship with (other than a valid marriage), if you choose to do so.

What would be true would be to say:

“You are not PERMITTED to have sex
with anyone you have a relationship with
unless that person is your true spouse.”

In addition, marriage is consent.

From the catechism: "The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage.

“The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.”

Dan Grelinger
Click to expand...
There is also a saying in the Bible about the wife’s body belonging to the husband and the husband’s body belonging to the wife.

However it is up to the individual to choose to follow that teaching. It is never right for anyone to force another to have sex. Marriage does not give the husband the right to violate his wife.
A wife is not a husband’s plaything.
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
The obvious implication of this statement is that you are allowed to engage in sexual activity with someone that you have a relationship with (other than a valid marriage), if you choose to do so.

What would be true would be to say:

“You are not PERMITTED to have sex
with anyone you have a relationship with
unless that person is your true spouse.”

In addition, marriage is consent.

From the catechism: "The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that “makes the marriage.” If consent is lacking there is no marriage.

“The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.”

Dan Grelinger
Click to expand...
What you call an “obvious implication” is anything but. The statement you quoted, as another poster has noted, is an anti-rape statement (and a very important one).

As to your understanding of sexual consent within marriage, I would urge you to rethink your position. The USCCB has clearly identified marital rape (which by the way is illlegal throughout the United States and much of the world) as a form of domestic violence:
Domestic violence is any kind of behavior that a person uses to control an intimate partner through fear and intimidation. It includes physical, sexual, psychological, verbal, and economic abuse. Some examples of domestic abuse include battering, name-calling and insults, threats to kill or harm one’s partner or children, destruction of property, marital rape, and forced sterilization or abortion.
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Read more, including the references they are drawing on, here: usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/marriage/domestic-violence/when-i-call-for-help.cfm
 
I must agree with the other posters that her statement is right. While a married couple is more likely to consent, “no” still means “no.”
 
If the request of one spouse for marital activity is “unreasonable,” the other spouse is permitted to decline, according to the Church.
 
St_Francis said:
If the request of one spouse for marital activity is “unreasonable,” the other spouse is permitted to decline, according to the Church.
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If one person wants sex and the other doesn’t then the expectation that sex will occur is unreasonable. Not sure why this nuance is needed here. A spouse can decline for any reason whatsoever and you can’t force yourself on them, even if they are declining for less than noble reasons (i.e. revenge).
 
mVitus said:
I must agree with the other posters that her statement is right. While a married couple is more likely to consent, “no” still means “no.”
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But the Catholic Church teaches that for married couples, consent has already been given, and ‘no’ is withdrawal of consent, and a grave sin.
 
J_Peterson said:
If one person wants sex and the other doesn’t then the expectation that sex will occur is unreasonable. Not sure why this nuance is needed here. A spouse can decline for any reason whatsoever and you can’t force yourself on them, even if they are declining for less than noble reasons (i.e. revenge).
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This is not Catholic teaching. Spouses can only ‘decline’ for serious reason.
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
This is not Catholic teaching. Spouses can only ‘decline’ for serious reason.
Click to expand...
Why would anyone in a loving marriage want to have intercourse with their spouse when their spouse said they didn’t want to at that time?
 
I find the idea that if my wife said she wasn’t in the mood, I could morally say “tough luck” and have sex with her anyway to be pretty gross. Yes, spouses should be giving with one another, but coercing sex out of someone when they aren’t in the mood is pretty repugnant behavior.

And you really don’t need to sign your posts, your username appears to the left.
 
This is one of those issues where people need to actually act like adults. Rape is bad, we are all agreed on that.

However if you are married and your spouse wants to have sex with you even if you do not feel like it, most of the time you should. I thought a major part of marriage and family was making some sacrifices on behalf of the other person. The breadwinner still has to go to work even when they do not feel like it. If you have children, you still need to be a parent to them even when they have driven you crazy all day long. Why would that not apply to sex?

Then again, I am just a cynical guy who has seen plenty of dysfunctional relationships so what do I know? 🤷
 
starshiptrooper said:
This is one of those issues where people need to actually act like adults. Rape is bad, we are all agreed on that.

However if you are married and your spouse wants to have sex with you even if you do not feel like it, most of the time you should. I thought a major part of marriage and family was making some sacrifices on behalf of the other person. The breadwinner still has to go to work even when they do not feel like it. If you have children, you still need to be a parent to them even when they have driven you crazy all day long. Why would that not apply to sex?

Then again, I am just a cynical guy who has seen plenty of dysfunctional relationships so what do I know? 🤷
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It works just as well when turned around. Making sacrifice on behalf of the other person is great. Maybe that sacrifice should be the spouse desiring sex accepts the demurral gracefully without pouting or badgering the other person.

I think a lot of this hinges on reasonableness. If one partner is generally receptive, but occasionally says “Not tonight, honey.” I think that’s totally fine. And if the desiring spouse tries to wring sex from them like a bar rag, I think that’s extremely selfish.

If, on the other hand, one of the spouses is saying “not tonight” every night for a long period of time, then I think there is a stronger case that they are not fulfilling their marital duties.
 
And guys, just as a practical matter: there is very little that women find less attractive or arousing than you begging for sex like a toddler who wants a cookie. Pouting and saying, “But I want to! You’re my wife, you have to let me!” is virtually guaranteed to kill any libido your wife might have.
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
This is not Catholic teaching. Spouses can only ‘decline’ for serious reason.
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So if a person believes the reason isn’t “serious” enough then they can go ahead and have sex anyway. What if they have to hold their spouse down in order to have sex, is that within Catholic teaching? I don’t mean to get graphic here but what exactly are you condoning? My God, talk about legalism 😦

ETA: Being dead serious, if I believed that Christ condones marital rape I would leave the Church in a second and become her biggest enemy. Good thing I can’t imagine Christ siding with a baby of a man that can’t control their desires. This thread is disturbing to me. If your that weak go and masturbate and keep your sin to yourself. At least your only hurting yourself with that.
 
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