Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

[bernadettefaith]

“He says that he realizes that the Disney fantasy isn’t true but he thinks that he should at least feel some love all the time. He doesn’t think that marriage should be so miserable. Yet he isn’t really able to describe why he’s miserable, other than he’s afraid I’m going to get angry. But he wasn’t miserable in the past when I actually did get angry He says I’ve only gotten better as I’ve matured. None of this really makes sense.”

Don’t try to make it make sense–it doesn’t.

“The counselor has asked us to describe our “perfect” partner. I’m not quite sure that that is a good exercise. I don’t have a “perfect”. She tried to get me to describe physical traits that I would want - and I don’t have any specifics. I’d much rather be with someone with good character over physical traits. And I’ve always admired him for his character in the past - not sure what’s going on right now.”

Yeah, I think that was not a good exercise in your husband’s case, because this is already something he has a problem with–fantasizing about finding somebody better than you. The physical trait thing is especially odd. Obviously, we do like certain physical traits more than others (it’s good to have a chin!), but there’s a Russian saying that goes, a man should only be just better looking than a gorilla.

Exactly! Neither of us has a problem with the other’s physical traits. In fact, he worries that he married me only because he thinks I’m beautiful.

I think that her purpose with that exercise is to point out how we can be each other’s “perfect” partner. The only things that are different between myself and his “perfect” partner are that she would have a career and would be into the arts. He said that neither of those are a deal breaker - just nice to have. I’m not artistic but can appreciate the arts. And I will have a career in a few years, I’m sure. He doesn’t want me to just get a job as that’s not really a career path with advancement opportunities (understandably so). The counselor pointed out that I will eventually meet that expectation.

The counselor had him reassure me that there’s nobody else in front of her. I only mentioned it because of his refusal to be intimate and I know that’s a sign. She doesn’t believe it’s the issue - and I don’t have a gut feeling that it is either. She says that we often jump to that conclusion but it’s not always the case.

 

[Serap]

From what I’ve read, it’s not a good idea for me to point out anything positive that he gets out of the relationship. Talking to him myself isn’t really going to change his mind. I can treat him with love, respect, and kindness and hope that my actions speak louder than words

why? I disagree with what you read then. what is the reason for not saying anything?

I agree that actions speak louder than words. What about both together though?

 

[bernadettefaith]

why? I disagree with what you read then. what is the reason for not saying anything?

I agree that actions speak louder than words. What about both together though?

Well I have told him what he would be missing without me in the past. I have since stopped.

I’m not quite sure why but I think it has to do with the idea that I would seem like I’m begging and pleading for him to stay and he doesn’t want to be talked into staying. He wants to be there because he chooses to be there…not for the kids, not out of guilt, but because he wants to be married to me. I can’t harass him into changing his mind. At least that’s the theories I usually hear - that someone in his position needs space and if you seem clingy or needy then it’s a big turn off.

 

[MJJean]

I do wear perfume most of the time but I can’t remember what I wore years ago. He bought me one for my birthday last month and I’ve been wearing it.

He says that he realizes that the Disney fantasy isn’t true but he thinks that he should at least feel some love all the time. He doesn’t think that marriage should be so miserable. Yet he isn’t really able to describe why he’s miserable, other than he’s afraid I’m going to get angry. But he wasn’t miserable in the past when I actually did get angry He says I’ve only gotten better as I’ve matured. None of this really makes sense.

The counselor has asked us to describe our “perfect” partner. I’m not quite sure that that is a good exercise. I don’t have a “perfect”. She tried to get me to describe physical traits that I would want - and I don’t have any specifics. I’d much rather be with someone with good character over physical traits. And I’ve always admired him for his character in the past - not sure what’s going on right now.

If you don’t know the old scent maybe you could just rub steak drippings behind your ears and on your wrists. All men like food! Sorry, had to try to make you smile.

It’s hard to feel love all the time when you have a long work day at a stressful job and then come home to young children and their needs. That’s why taking some couple time every day or at least a couple times a week is so important. Not to talk about the relationship, but to actually have the relationship. And, believe me, talking about the relationship almost every time you’re alone together is not a good idea. Juts in case you’re doing that or heading toward doing that. At one point my husband was so tired of talking about feelings or the relationship that I am pretty sure he wanted to either kill me or himself if I merely said the words feeling and relationship.

I don’t think the anger and fear of anger issues make sense, either, other than as a way to explain the lack of feeling he is experiencing. It might not even be that at all. Hopefully, through counseling, you’ll both learn why he is feeling and not feeling what he is.

I don’t have a “perfect”, either. I have dated thin men, chubby men, muscular men, blondes, brunettes, redheads… It’s not the appearance than makes me find a man attractive. It’s a certain vibe he gives off and other personality traits that turn my head. I couldn’t physically describe a particular type of man I saw as perfect if someone held a gun to my head.

I know you aren’t supposed to be pointing out what you are to your husband and the things you do for him, but sometimes I think a man takes a woman for granted and needs to be reminded of his good fortune. I have had to point out to the DH the fact that he’d be hard pressed to find a woman who would love him the way I do, put up with his quirks, and do for him what I do for him to make his life easier. I wasn’t clingly or begging for recognition. I was confident. And I have, more than once, had to say “Look, I just did XYZ for you and I didn’t even get a thank you?!?!?” Given a few minutes to think about it, he comes around.

 

[davetv]

Is there a site to search for a cursillo nearby? I am almost certain he wouldn’t go along with anything faith based but I can offer.

You can find one in your area here…

cursillo.org/affiliated.html

Often each parish has a representative too, you may be able to find who that is through the local area link.

 

[bernadettefaith]

If you don’t know the old scent maybe you could just rub steak drippings behind your ears and on your wrists. All men like food! Sorry, had to try to make you smile.

It’s hard to feel love all the time when you have a long work day at a stressful job and then come home to young children and their needs. That’s why taking some couple time every day or at least a couple times a week is so important. Not to talk about the relationship, but to actually have the relationship. And, believe me, talking about the relationship almost every time you’re alone together is not a good idea. Juts in case you’re doing that or heading toward doing that. At one point my husband was so tired of talking about feelings or the relationship that I am pretty sure he wanted to either kill me or himself if I merely said the words feeling and relationship.

I don’t think the anger and fear of anger issues make sense, either, other than as a way to explain the lack of feeling he is experiencing. It might not even be that at all. Hopefully, through counseling, you’ll both learn why he is feeling and not feeling what he is.

I don’t have a “perfect”, either. I have dated thin men, chubby men, muscular men, blondes, brunettes, redheads… It’s not the appearance than makes me find a man attractive. It’s a certain vibe he gives off and other personality traits that turn my head. I couldn’t physically describe a particular type of man I saw as perfect if someone held a gun to my head.

I know you aren’t supposed to be pointing out what you are to your husband and the things you do for him, but sometimes I think a man takes a woman for granted and needs to be reminded of his good fortune. I have had to point out to the DH the fact that he’d be hard pressed to find a woman who would love him the way I do, put up with his quirks, and do for him what I do for him to make his life easier. I wasn’t clingly or begging for recognition. I was confident. And I have, more than once, had to say “Look, I just did XYZ for you and I didn’t even get a thank you?!?!?” Given a few minutes to think about it, he comes around.

See, he’s never dated anyone else so his ideal partner is perfect. He thinks that if he knew for a fact that other women had flaws then he’d be happier with me. :banghead:

He thinks there’s someone else out there who’s more compatible. The main things he mentions are that I like animals and he doesn’t - he agreed to every animal in our house. He did like animals before he realized how much work they are. And that I’m religious and he’s not. The counselor asked if he had a problem with my attending mass and he said no - he’ll even go too when he is off. I don’t really have an issue with his lack of faith at the moment as long as he still agrees to raise the children Catholic - and he does. He doesn’t suggest getting rid of the animals that we already have.

I’ve tried telling him that I don’t think just any woman would love him like I do, put up with his quirks, etc but it really only upsets him. He wants to believe that he could get another woman but still chooses not to. Hope that makes sense

 

[Serap]

Well I have told him what he would be missing without me in the past. I have since stopped.

I’m not quite sure why but I think it has to do with the idea that I would seem like I’m begging and pleading for him to stay and he doesn’t want to be talked into staying. He wants to be there because he chooses to be there…not for the kids, not out of guilt, but because he wants to be married to me. I can’t harass him into changing his mind. At least that’s the theories I usually hear - that someone in his position needs space and if you seem clingy or needy then it’s a big turn off.

do it like this…

“they do you remember the time that we…wasn’t that a fun day!”

“look at this picture that I found when cleaning today!!!”

don’t say it like, “if you leave me, you will miss out on…”

 

[Serap]

Talk lovingly about the good times you guys have had and how much fun you had that day.

My husband and I have a funny memory that always makes us laugh and feel closer:

We were in Paris and we walked past a drunk man balancing a beer bottle on his forehead. We laughed our heads off at the time.

When I bring that memory up, I am sure to get a smile from my husband.

Anther memory is when we were looking over a harbor and a boy beside us said, “Grampa, what’s that.” The grandpa said, “I think it’s fish.” My husband turned to him and said, “Those are weeds!” The grandpa gave my husband a dirty look and took his grandchild away. We laughed our butts off at the time and if I bring it up we still have a good laugh.

I’m talking about bringing up fun subjects that will remind him of the days that he felt tremendous love and happiness with you.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I do think it helps a tiny bit, if only for just conversation. Though sometimes he seems indifferent to stories that would have made him smile. Sometimes he says, “I wasn’t really happy. I was just putting on a happy face.”

We do watch old tv shows on DVD that we watched when we were dating.
I think that helps somewhat. At least it makes us laugh and laughter helps everything.

 

[MJJean]

See, he’s never dated anyone else so his ideal partner is perfect. He thinks that if he knew for a fact that other women had flaws then he’d be happier with me. :banghead:

He thinks there’s someone else out there who’s more compatible. The main things he mentions are that I like animals and he doesn’t - he agreed to every animal in our house. He did like animals before he realized how much work they are. And that I’m religious and he’s not. The counselor asked if he had a problem with my attending mass and he said no - he’ll even go too when he is off. I don’t really have an issue with his lack of faith at the moment as long as he still agrees to raise the children Catholic - and he does. He doesn’t suggest getting rid of the animals that we already have.

I’ve tried telling him that I don’t think just any woman would love him like I do, put up with his quirks, etc but it really only upsets him. He wants to believe that he could get another woman but still chooses not to. Hope that makes sense

He is being totally unrealistic. Of course other women aren’t perfect. we’re all human and we’re all flawed. He doesn’t need to date 10 of them to know that. It’s a fact.

You being religious and him not being religious isn’t a sign of incompatibility. It’s a sign that you are individuals. One of you happens to be religious and one of you not so much. There are differences like that in every relationship. Same with the love of animals.

Heck, my MIL is a Secular Humanist and a Liberal. My FIL is a Catholic who never misses Mass and a Conservative. She likes animals and he doesn’t. He played golf like it was his job, she hates golf. They’ve been married for something like 55 years. Sometimes, people have to learn to get over themselves, ya know?

Of course hearing that he isn’t going to get from some random woman what he gets from you is going to upset him. It’s true. And it blows his fantasy life to smithereens. Of course he could leave and eventually get another woman. But that’s no guarantee he wouldn’t end up right where he is now or in a truly bad relationship/marriage. He needs to understand that.

It sounds a lot like he woke up sometime around June and realized that he is living a real life vs the life he fantasized about. Which happens to a lot of people. It’s like a mid-life crisis for younger people. But at least he’s willing to work on it.

 

[bernadettefaith]

He is being totally unrealistic. Of course other women aren’t perfect. we’re all human and we’re all flawed. He doesn’t need to date 10 of them to know that. It’s a fact.

You being religious and him not being religious isn’t a sign of incompatibility. It’s a sign that you are individuals. One of you happens to be religious and one of you not so much. There are differences like that in every relationship. Same with the love of animals.

Heck, my MIL is a Secular Humanist and a Liberal. My FIL is a Catholic who never misses Mass and a Conservative. She likes animals and he doesn’t. He played golf like it was his job, she hates golf. They’ve been married for something like 55 years. Sometimes, people have to learn to get over themselves, ya know?

Of course hearing that he isn’t going to get from some random woman what he gets from you is going to upset him. It’s true. And it blows his fantasy life to smithereens. Of course he could leave and eventually get another woman. But that’s no guarantee he wouldn’t end up right where he is now or in a truly bad relationship/marriage. He needs to understand that.

It sounds a lot like he woke up sometime around June and realized that he is living a real life vs the life he fantasized about. Which happens to a lot of people. It’s like a mid-life crisis for younger people. But at least he’s willing to work on it.

About the compatibility, maybe he thinks that because he was Catholic and loved animals when we dated and now he doesn’t then that means we’re no longer compatible? I’m not sure. Regardless, he’s said that the differences between us aren’t deal breakers so I’m not sure why they matter so much. He thought that it really bothered me that he was not religious and I said that it wasn’t a deal breaker for me. I wouldn’t want him practicing a faith that he no longer believes in.

I do think he truly believes that he could trade our relationship for an easier one. He says that he realizes relationships can be hard but he thinks ours is “too hard”. That makes no sense since he has stuck through our relationship for 13 years and never complained before.

I’ve asked before if his friends complain about their wives. He claims that men don’t normally speak negatively about their significant others. I know that women complain plenty, which makes me appreciate my husband knowing that other husbands aren’t perfect either. He seems to think that all of his friends are crazy about their wives at all times.

He’s told the counselor that he’s curious about what it would be like to be with another woman (during our last session). He also said that he doesn’t think it’s fair to drag me down with him just because he has regrets about his past. During our last counseling session, he also said that he really wants to give me another chance and start the relationship with a blank slate. So I think he may just be starting to see the light even if he isn’t there yet.

He definitely seems like he’s in some kind of crisis even though he’s young for a midlife crisis. I’ve heard that it can be common for the 26-30 yr age group. Especially if he feels stuck in a rut in the relationship or life in general.

 

[Serap]

About the compatibility, maybe he thinks that because he was Catholic and loved animals when we dated and now he doesn’t then that means we’re no longer compatible? I’m not sure. Regardless, he’s said that the differences between us aren’t deal breakers so I’m not sure why they matter so much. He thought that it really bothered me that he was not religious and I said that it wasn’t a deal breaker for me. I wouldn’t want him practicing a faith that he no longer believes in.

I do think he truly believes that he could trade our relationship for an easier one. He says that he realizes relationships can be hard but he thinks ours is “too hard”. That makes no sense since he has stuck through our relationship for 13 years and never complained before.

I’ve asked before if his friends complain about their wives. He claims that men don’t normally speak negatively about their significant others. I know that women complain plenty, which makes me appreciate my husband knowing that other husbands aren’t perfect either. He seems to think that all of his friends are crazy about their wives at all times.

He’s told the counselor that he’s curious about what it would be like to be with another woman (during our last session). He also said that he doesn’t think it’s fair to drag me down with him just because he has regrets about his past. During our last counseling session, he also said that he really wants to give me another chance and start the relationship with a blank slate. So I think he may just be starting to see the light even if he isn’t there yet.

He definitely seems like he’s in some kind of crisis even though he’s young for a midlife crisis. I’ve heard that it can be common for the 26-30 yr age group. Especially if he feels stuck in a rut in the relationship or life in general.

I honestly think it happens to men when they have young children. Their wife is no longer just their’s and life suddenly is full of sacrifices and work.

 

[Xantippe]

bernadettefaith said:

“He thinks that if he knew for a fact that other women had flaws then he’d be happier with me.”

Surely he’s heard other men gripe about their wives and girlfriends? The money they waste, the hours they take to get ready to go out, the time they spend on the phone, too-long visits from their mothers, etc. Has he never heard a comedian talk about his wife?

“He thinks there’s someone else out there who’s more compatible. The main things he mentions are that I like animals and he doesn’t - he agreed to every animal in our house. He did like animals before he realized how much work they are. And that I’m religious and he’s not. The counselor asked if he had a problem with my attending mass and he said no - he’ll even go too when he is off. I don’t really have an issue with his lack of faith at the moment as long as he still agrees to raise the children Catholic - and he does. He doesn’t suggest getting rid of the animals that we already have.”

It sounds like he wants to be married to himself, except prettier.

“I’ve tried telling him that I don’t think just any woman would love him like I do, put up with his quirks, etc but it really only upsets him. He wants to believe that he could get another woman but still chooses not to. Hope that makes sense.”

I think it’s OK that he be allowed to think that. And he could get another woman–it’s just that he would eventually figure out that she’s a human being, too.

 

[Xantippe]

bernadettefaith said:

“He claims that men don’t normally speak negatively about their significant others. I know that women complain plenty, which makes me appreciate my husband knowing that other husbands aren’t perfect either. He seems to think that all of his friends are crazy about their wives at all times.”

Heeheehee!

I just don’t know what to suggest, because it’s so amazingly unrealistic. It’s like he’s never even watched a sitcom before.

Serap said:

“I honestly think it happens to men when they have young children. Their wife is no longer just their’s and life suddenly is full of sacrifices and work.”

Yes!

Is it that the marriage itself is hard, or that it’s just harder running a household with dependent little people in it?

 

[Xantippe]

Wouldn’t it be terribly boring to be married to somebody exactly like ourselves?

 

[bernadettefaith]

I honestly think it happens to men when they have young children. Their wife is no longer just their’s and life suddenly is full of sacrifices and work.

I think so too, but then why would he want to remarry and consider having ANOTHER baby? He might think that it’s all me so that he doesn’t sound like he’s blaming his children. I’m easier to blame because I’m an adult and not so innocent - at least that’s my theory.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Wouldn’t it be terribly boring to be married to somebody exactly like ourselves?

Exactly! He probably wouldn’t be attracted to me if I were too much like him.

I’m not sure if he hears others complain about their wives as much as I hear about husbands. Or maybe it’s that I socialize with more married women than he does married men. Women are more likely to confide in each other with relationship issues. I don’t think he’s told any of his guy friends about all of this. They don’t talk “feelings”.

Some of this is might have to do with “keeping up with the Jones’s” He talks to his friends at work and they want to know what his wife does for a living. He feels inferior because I don’t have a good career like their wives. They talk about their party days in college and the girls they slept with. He doesn’t have anything to talk about. They talk about their new homes, cars, and other toys. He doesn’t feel like we have much to brag about. To be fair, he started out young in his career and the men he compares himself to are often at least 10 years older than him. So some are better established financially and can afford better homes. Others I’m sure waste money - he doesn’t get their credit card statements

 

[Serap]

I think so too, but then why would he want to remarry and consider having ANOTHER baby? He might think that it’s all me so that he doesn’t sound like he’s blaming his children. I’m easier to blame because I’m an adult and not so innocent - at least that’s my theory.

bc he’s watching too many Hollywood movies where kids make a marriage happy and everyone’s happy.

I love the movie “This is 40”. It’s more realistic and funny.

You guys should watch it together. An eye opener.

 

[bernadettefaith]

bc he’s watching too many Hollywood movies where kids make a marriage happy and everyone’s happy.

I love the movie “This is 40”. It’s more realistic and funny.

You guys should watch it together. An eye opener.

Oh yes, we watched that actually right after he brought up the issues! Then he was kind of depressed that he could relate.

 

[Crickabelle]

So glad things are going better for you! I’m sure, like any normal couple, you will have a few setbacks here and there, but I pray that the improvements and hope continue!

P.S. If you read the books, I would suggest keeping them private, and also staying quiet about any changes you decide to make (at least with your husband–feel free to discuss with other women, lol). In my experience, you’ll get much better results if you “just do it,” rather than talking with him about it, as tempting as that might be!

Bernadette, this is excellent advice. You already mention awareness of your faults and you are working on them. Have you got to confession? Go. Now. You will get grace and insight and be able to forgive yourself. But also remember that your husband isn’t perfect either and the way he is looking at the marriage is flawed. Persevere in prayer.