Marriage issue

[theswan]

I was married Monday to the wonderful lady I’ve been with for 6 years, she and I are 58 near 59 and look forward to a prayerful, spiritual life together.

My wife was born Jewish and has converted to Christian science. Sadly this has made it impossible to partake of the Eucharist or continue my position of Extarordinary minister of the Holy Eucharist. I was not clear until I spoke with our pastor today before 5pm Mass.

The father congratulated me on my marriage despite the possible cost. While I do not agree with the Church’s position, as a Catholic I will humbly obey.

We will meet and discuss the next step which may be dicey. My wife will do what it takes to help short of converting. I may get a dispensation but the sticking point is the fact the she is divorced from a Jewish marriage. (before she converted of course) She was under threat of physical harm and that caused the breakup.

Anyone else face a situation as mine? Please try and be helpful rather then taking a judging or 'told you so" tact. I already feel great loss having lost my service as an EM. I still can and will cantor and choir but loved bring the Eucharist to a local nursing home.

peace

Glen

 

[Vico]

I was married Monday to the wonderful lady I’ve been with for 6 years, she and I are 58 near 59 and look forward to a prayerful, spiritual life together.

My wife was born Jewish and has converted to Christian science. Sadly this has made it impossible to partake of the Eucharist or continue my position of Extarordinary minister of the Holy Eucharist. I was not clear until I spoke with our pastor today before 5pm Mass.

The father congratulated me on my marriage despite the possible cost. While I do not agree with the Church’s position, as a Catholic I will humbly obey.

We will meet and discuss the next step which may be dicey. My wife will do what it takes to help short of converting. I may get a dispensation but the sticking point is the fact the she is divorced from a Jewish marriage. (before she converted of course) She was under threat of physical harm and that caused the breakup.

Anyone else face a situation as mine? Please try and be helpful rather then taking a judging or 'told you so" tact. I already feel great loss having lost my service as an EM. I still can and will cantor and choir but loved bring the Eucharist to a local nursing home.

peace

Glen

You said: “the sticking point is the fact the she is divorced from a Jewish marriage”.

Are you saying that there is still a bond (ligamen)?

Ligamen: The existing marriage tie which constitutes in canon law a public impediment to the contracting of a second marriage.

A tribunal of the Catholic Church must declare her Jewish marriage as null before the Catholic Church could approve matrimony. If this has not been done, then I recommend persuing it so that a Catholic marriage could occur. (Jewish and Christian Science does not have baptism, so marriage to a Catholic will not be sacramental).

 

[5Loaves]

the sticking point is the fact the she is divorced from a Jewish marriage

The Church assumes she is still married and thus not free to marry another person. The next step is to talk with your parish priest about her pursing a decree of nullity, if the husband is still alive, which I assume he is. Your priest can answer many if not all of your questions. He is the one who will help her begin the process. Sometimes it turns out the issue is easily solved… one discovers that the husband himself was previously married and divorced, so this marriage to her was never valid, because he wasn’t free to marry her as his earlier marriage was still considered valid. Other times it involves the full process. There are cases where the former spouse need not be contacted. It is important to be truthful with your pastor when you do met with him.

It is a real advantage that your partner is willing to do what it takes for you to be able to return to the sacraments. This is truly an act of love on her part. It may be that your priest can suggest some folks in your parish you could talk with who have gone through a similar annulment process where it was the party who is not Catholic who needed to and was willing to pursue this process for their partner.

 

[blueadept]

First of all, congrats on your marriage…:clapping:

You’ve taken the next step of talking with the priest which is great and your wife is willing to cooperate in the process. It would only be speculation on what the priest may suggest. You’re in my prayers that I’ll take to Adoration. My father was about your age when he re-married and received a dispensation to have the marriage recognized even though it was performed in a Lutheran church and she didn’t need to convert. I pray it will work out for you.

 

[Kenneth_Jones]

JMJ
I agree with the response to contact your parish priest about these questions. This forum, while helpful, is not dispositive (we ain’t the authority).

Also, in every diocese is a group called The Tribunal. Their job is to advise and determine whether a marriage is valid (was proper) and to help you in any necessary investigation of facts relating to your (and her) circumstances. They are your key to these questions. They are the authority. And they don’t bite. Contact is very private, you need have no fear.

Do contact your tribunal; your parish priest is your best starting point.

Ken

 

[1ke]

Talk to your priest. You have multiple impediments to a valid marriage. I hope that they can be resolved. She will have to petition for a decree of nullity. A dissolution of the bond in favor of the faith might also be possible (Petrine Privilege) but that would have to go to Rome. If a decree of nullity is obtained, then you can proceed with convalidation. This might take several years to resolve.

You posted here BEFORE you got married. People told you the consequences of moving forward with the marriage. People also told you what could be done to do things the right way.

You went forward willfully and with knowledge that it was the wrong thing to do. And now you want people to just ignore that fact? Sorry, no can do.

The best course of action would be to separate and cease living with this woman until and unless the marriage can be a valid one. Then you can go to confession and resume the sacramental life.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was married Monday to the wonderful lady I’ve been with for 6 years, she and I are 58 near 59 and look forward to a prayerful, spiritual life together.

My wife was born Jewish and has converted to Christian science. Sadly this has made it impossible to partake of the Eucharist or continue my position of Extarordinary minister of the Holy Eucharist. I was not clear until I spoke with our pastor today before 5pm Mass.

I’m sorry I am sure I must be misunderstanding the situation

you have been a Eucharistic minister with presumably what that position requires, practicing the faith and a Catholic in good standing, yet you entered into a civil marriage, outside canon law, with a divorced person? And you did not know the consequences until you spoke to the priest after the fact? I beg to be corrected in my understanding.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I was married Monday to the wonderful lady I’ve been with for 6 years, she and I are 58 near 59 and look forward to a prayerful, spiritual life together.

My wife was born Jewish and has converted to Christian science. Sadly this has made it impossible to partake of the Eucharist or continue my position of Extarordinary minister of the Holy Eucharist. I was not clear until I spoke with our pastor today before 5pm Mass.

The father congratulated me on my marriage despite the possible cost. While I do not agree with the Church’s position, as a Catholic I will humbly obey.

We will meet and discuss the next step which may be dicey. My wife will do what it takes to help short of converting. I may get a dispensation but the sticking point is the fact the she is divorced from a Jewish marriage. (before she converted of course) She was under threat of physical harm and that caused the breakup.

Anyone else face a situation as mine? Please try and be helpful rather then taking a judging or 'told you so" tact. I already feel great loss having lost my service as an EM. I still can and will cantor and choir but loved bring the Eucharist to a local nursing home.

peace

Glen

Glen

Please say why you posted. I’m not sure what help you’re expecting. I don’t think anyone will you tell it’s all fine. You may get some folk saying I told you so but you don’t need that because you already know.

You say your wife is prepared to do what it takes to regularise your circumstances. Why didn’t you just do things the right way round in the first place? If you apply to have former marriages annulled you need to know application does not equate to granted.

Matt

 

[theswan]

Fine? no I do not expect that. Let me give some facts.

1 I love this woman who stood by me in a very dark period of grave illness. I’d marry her because of deep love.
2 I do plead stupidity and ignorance as my priest/choir member friend suggested I talk to the pastor before I got married.
3 Being “smart” I “assumed” there was no way to get married in the church as she did not want to be part of the process (then not now as she see’s how important it is to me at this point and is willing to do what it takes to make it right)
4 She was married and the man was abusive and threatened her hence the divorce ( She was of the Jewish faith then=now christian scientist)

5 I was to give out the Eucharist Monday but have cancelled much to the sadness of the director as I was always doing my duty.

Now, I am no longer to serve or partake of the beloved Eucharist and that of course saddens me. I love my wife and hope there is a way to make this right in the Church’s eyes. If not i have indeed sacrificed but will regret my haste, not my action in wanting to live as man and wife rather then friends.

Mt pastor does not know all the steps and he is a very intellegent man so I come here to get ideas and others expirencence in this matter.

peace

Glen

 

[theswan]

To Matt

You are not sure what I am expecting? I expect love, compassion, caring and if possible, suggestions as to what can be done.

I try and offer these things before I offer advice as I am but a flawed sinner who is smart enough to know I am not always right.

Peace

Glen

 

[theswan]

Puzzle Annie

Yes in a nutshell. sorry if this sounds like perhaps I was not the best informed Eucharistic minister but I did take my role seriously with the reverence the positon required.

I no longer will be a minister of the Holy Eucharist because of my hasty decision but I assure you, I did not take a “so what” attitude in making my decision to marry the woman who has been so very kind to me.

I am a sinner, i do dumb things however my desire is to be a good Catholic.

I hope that is clear

as my own pastor has to get help, my coming here is to see if maybe another has been through this-I hope that is ok

Glen

 

[theswan]

Thanks Blue, etc and those who offered solid advice and prayers.

1ke, I’d assume you 'read" into my comments as I was not told what would happen if I went ahead. I assumed it was impossible because at the time, my wife was unwilling to participate in anything to do with seeing a priest.

She has since changed her mind hence my hope of some action to bring me back into the full church.

My sin was not listening to the priest who said to see the pastor-Why, well sadly he is close to me and I felt more like a buddy was suggesting mildly that seeing the pastor may help me decide not to get marrried. silly? yeah maybe but my motive was not to try and trick the Church my motive was based on a deep love for a person with whom i wanted to spend my life with. My thought in the Church matter was that it was a “fate complie” and there was not a thing that could be done.

Hope this clears up my reasons, sadly wanton as they seem

 

[1ke]

So your next step is to make an appointment with the pastor and lay out all the facts. Then you will go from there one step at a time.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am still sorry for not understanding why you did not simply ask your pastor about your marriage plans in the first place? And why you have simply not gone to him now and asked what you can do to make things right? Why would you ask strangers when you have a pastor, and had a pastor you could have asked before you took this step?

 

[Castello]

Every Parish I have ever been in or visited has a note on the bulletin that says something about “Marriage - contact the pastor 6 months in advance”.

For the OP, now is the time to step back and ask yourself, what is more important - having sexual relations with this woman or receiving our Lord in the Eucharist? The choice is yours.

I will pray for you.

 

[theswan]

That was not helpful but thanks for the prayers. I did not see that posted nor did I think the Church would allow me to be a full Catholic if I married her ( I know different now hence by questions here)

As per the issue of sex, why assume is is sex I am after? Did I even mention sex? Maybe it is a non issue for me for personal issues or we want to live a chaste life. Whatever, it is none of your business that is not what I posted about.

Sorry if that sounds rude but please look at what you wrote. Is it written with love? I will not presume to believe you’d write just to feel a wee bit superior or to try and belittle a fellow Catholic. However, your words come across as somewhat judging as you do not know me or the wonderful woman I married. My pastor was anything but judging, he was helpful and I believe will do what he can to assist me.

Glen

 

[theswan]

I hope my point has been made that yes yes yes! I made errors in judgement. I in my heart believed that my marriage would not in any way be ok with the Church.

I was going to marry this loyal loving woman without the blessings of the Church. My thought was since I love her and we are together anyway, why not put a civil seal on the marriage all the while thinking that the Church will not allow us to take this Sacrament if she will not attend pre Cana or even speak to a priest.

So, i was wrong in my assuming this but now I have more information and hope to maybe hear from one who was in the same situation or one who at least knows the ropes as my pastor even needs to ask for help on this.

I find no need to keep telling me I did wrong as I have admitted this. Maybe I’m sensitive but I’m hurting and feel inside that I did a loving thing albeit misguided. To tell me my motive was sex really boils me as this is so far from true.

Glen

 

[1ke]

That was not helpful but thanks for the prayers. I did not see that posted nor did I think the Church would allow me to be a full Catholic if I married her ( I know different now hence by questions here)

I think the point people are making is that you chose to marry her even though you already thought the Church would not let you marry-- you chose her over Christ and his Church and put yourself outside the sacraments. You chose to put yourself in mortal sin.

If her first marriage is found to be valid you will not be able to marry her at all.

So, people here are trying to help you see that you have pur yourself in a position of serious sin, you don’t seem sorry about it, and that can have eternal consequences. If after investigation the tribunal finds her first marriage valid, and she cannot marry you validly in the Church, are you ready to sever your relationship with her and return to the Church?

As per the issue of sex, why assume is is sex I am after? Did I even mention sex? Maybe it is a non issue for me for personal issues or we want to live a chaste life. Whatever, it is none of your business that is not what I posted about.

I don’t understand why you would be surprised that people would assume you are having sex with a woman you call your wife.

If you or she are permanently unable to have sexual intercourse, that may be an impediment to a valid marriage. If you simply choose not to exercise the marital right, then that is fine. Until you are validly married in the Church you should not do so anyway, since it would be the sin of adultery, so that is a good thing if you are refraining from relations with her.

My pastor was anything but judging, he was helpful and I believe will do what he can to assist me.

Glen

Please make an appointment as soon as possible to talk with him.

 

[1ke]

and hope to maybe hear from one who was in the same situation or one who at least knows the ropes as my pastor even needs to ask for help on this.

Remember that everyone’s situation is unique, and while others’ stories may offer you hope or inspiration, you have to keep in mind that their circumstances are not identical to yours and your journey and outcome may be different.

If your pastor needs assistance, the diocesan Tribunal is the place he need to seek it. The Tribunal has canon lawyers on staff specifically to deal with marriage situations and can guide your pastor through what he needs to do.

I find no need to keep telling me I did wrong as I have admitted this. Maybe I’m sensitive but I’m hurting and feel inside that I did a loving thing albeit misguided. To tell me my motive was sex really boils me as this is so far from true.

Glen

No one said your motive was sex. But, it is a logical conclusion that you would be having relations with the person you now call your wife.

If you are not, as you have said, that is a good thing. I am sorry you are hurting, and I hope your priest can help you resolve the situation with a positive outcome. I do hope you will pray, though, about the serious situation you could find yourself in if her first marriage is found to be valid. A decree of nullity is NOT guaranteed. So, you need to prepare to submit to the Church’s finding if this is the case.

Please seek spiritual guidance from your pastor as soon as possible.

 

[Castello]

If you go online, your Diocese has a website, there will be contact information for the Office of the Tribunal. That office will assign you an advocate who will assist you in getting the ball rolling.