Marriage issue

[theswan]

That was helpful thanks

I am Catholic and while not at all happy with some of the Church’s positions, I will faithfully obey whatever their particular position is on this.

I imagine time will tell if I am indeed guilty of a sin as only in the afterlife will we be made privy of God’s plans and maybe not even then. However, it seems to me that marrying the one I love rather then just being friends who may or may not have had sex (no one’s beeswax but our’s) is a good thing rather then confessing my sin of adultery each time libido may have gotten the better of me and going on like it is normal and good.

Sure a chaste relationship may be the pure alternative to this but there are issues beyond just sex that are important in marriage.

Glen

 

[Vico]

theswan,

As a rule the Church does not permit marriages between Catholics and the unbaptized (CIC Can. 1086.1). But the diocesan bishop may grant a dispensation to permit such a wedding to be celebrated in the Catholic Church (CIC Can. 85). The Church’s main concern is for the faith of the Catholic party to the marriage; so if there is no obvious, well-founded fear that the Catholic will be prevented from practicing his faith or will leave the Church through indifference, then the bishop will ordinarily allow it to take place.

Christian Science does not have a Christian baptism of water, so your marriage in the Catholic Church will require a dispensation (disparity of cult).

“Our baptism is purification from all error… Our Eucharist is spiritual communion with the one God. Our bread, ‘which cometh down from heaven,’ is Truth. Our cup is the cross. Our wine the inspiration of Love, the draught the Master drank and commended to his followers” (Science and Health 35).

 

[theswan]

Thank you vico

I do have concerns about the lack of water baptism but have been assured that they have a baptism although of the spirit. Again, not to take issue with the Church as I follow it an obey it’s decrees as best as I can.

However, if one believes in spirtitual baptism who am I to say it is not valid. the intent is there as is the committment to follow the commandments. I can quote scripture but do not want to get into a shouting match over this issue surfice to say I’d perfer a water baptism but understand their point of view.

I see God as just and not a God that “strains out gnats” in obeying law. So yes, I perfer water baptism but at the same time understand Gods Grace and his forgiveness to one who may follow another path other then Catholicism.

We shall see what evolves but I fear this may be a long process and I pray not expensive as I am disabled and live on a small disability.

 

[Vico]

Thank you vico

I do have concerns about the lack of water baptism but have been assured that they have a baptism although of the spirit. Again, not to take issue with the Church as I follow it an obey it’s decrees as best as I can.

However, if one believes in spirtitual baptism who am I to say it is not valid. the intent is there as is the committment to follow the commandments. I can quote scripture but do not want to get into a shouting match over this issue surfice to say I’d perfer a water baptism but understand their point of view.

I see God as just and not a God that “strains out gnats” in obeying law. So yes, I perfer water baptism but at the same time understand Gods Grace and his forgiveness to one who may follow another path other then Catholicism.

We shall see what evolves but I fear this may be a long process and I pray not expensive as I am disabled and live on a small disability.

I looked up the fees in Provicence Diocese (Road Island) and found this:

How much does this cost?
It is often said, by persons who know little or nothing about the revised procedures of Tribunals, that one needs a great deal of money to begin an annulment. Money is not a significant consideration in a marriage case. We ask those who avail themselves of the services of the Tribunal to offer a $100 filing fee when the case is initiated, $200 when the questionnaire is submitted, and an additional $200 at the conclusion of the procedure to help defray the expenses incurred in the office, such as salaries, mailing, stationary, and phone. One’s ability or inability to offer this stipend in no way affects a petitioner’s ability to seek an annulment, the progress or the outcome.

 

[5Loaves]

Mt pastor does not know all the steps and he is a very intellegent man so I come here to get ideas and others expirencence in this matter.

Your pastor won’t know in depth all the steps. It’s not his job. Like wise you can’t get answers to her specific case here because none of us can know all the circumstances. The answers for her and for you can only come as she goes though the petition process.

The process of determining if her marriage was and therefore still is valid occurs in the tribunal, the canon law office for your diocese. Your priest is the point of entry for that. It is his role to help her initiate the petition with the tribunal. The Tribunal staff are very sensitive as to how difficult emotionally the process normally is. Normally the spouse is contacted and would be allowed to provide his own documentation to the Tribunal, but, again, there are circumstances where the spouse need not be contacted. Credible fear for her personal safety could be a reason they might not require contacting her husband.

Many diocese have pages on their websites with Q & A about the so-called annulment process.

 

[5Loaves]

I do have concerns about the lack of water baptism but have been assured that they have a baptism although of the spirit. Again, not to take issue with the Church as I follow it an obey it’s decrees as best as I can…

The Catholic Church canon law requires for a valid baptism true water and done in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Anyone can perform the baptism validly in an emergency. But in all cases the proper form (in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) and matter (real water on the body) are required. So a “baptism of the spirit” is not efficacious and she is not a Christian in the eyes of the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church, and I suspect not in the eyes of the Lutheran and Episcopal and Anglican ecclesial communities.

We shall see what evolves but I fear this may be a long process and I pray not expensive as I am disabled and live on a small disability.

From the Q & A on my archdiocese website:

According to Church law a case is supposed to be completed within 18 months. Many cases are completed in less than 18 months.

The petitioner is expected to pay a small percentage of the cost of the process. Most Diocese allow this to be paid in installments. And I am not aware of any case ever having not been allowed to proceed when a petitioner has provided evidence of an inability to pay the full amount due. When she initiates the petition she will be told the cost. Again, this cost represents only a small portion of what this legal process actually does cost. We, the faithful of the diocese, subsidize this process.

The sooner she or both of you meet with the pastor the sooner he can initiate the petition process and the sooner you will know if you can marry in the Church and return to the sacraments.

 

[theswan]

Thank you the posts were helpful.

I will await the process and leave it in the their good hands to come to a just conclusion.

I will not post until I hear further which may not be until next week due to scheduling and health issues. I’m glad my wife has come to the knowledge of how important this is to me. My regret is my compulsive nature that did not look into all the possiblities. I really believed there was nothing that could be done without her being involved upfront.

Thanks again for help and prayers.I will continue to at least be part of the Body by voice, prayer and attendance.

Glen

 

[Matthew_Holford]

To Matt

You are not sure what I am expecting? I expect love, compassion, caring and if possible, suggestions as to what can be done.

I try and offer these things before I offer advice as I am but a flawed sinner who is smart enough to know I am not always right.

Peace

Glen

Glen

As for the love, compassion, and caring, I wouldn’t want you to deny you those. However, there is no point saying there, there everything will be OK. That would not be the truth and it will not assist you.

As for the suggestions. First, you need to decide what you want. You have to decide how you want your marriage to be, you can decide how you want your relationship to be with the Church, you have to decide whether you want to regularise your marriage situation with the Church, you have to ask yourself why you chose to take the path you have taken. When you have done this my next suggestion is to discuss all these issues with your wife. What chosen options will she support? What compromises are you willing to make for the harmony of your marriage?

Next you need to go and see your priest. I will not say that your wife should have stayed in an abusive relationship. I do not condemn her for leaving the marriage or even for divorcing. I don’t think many folks here will condemn her. However, you ought to have known that she needed an annulment before she was free to marry you.

You have now placed yourself in a position with the Church that makes you unhappy. A situation that could have been avoided. You have chosen to disregard the Church’s teaching. I cannot be responsible for that.

I can have some empathy with your circumstances but my empathy will not resolve your problems.

You need to have a long discussion with your priest. I don’t think I need to advise you that you have a long and arduous path ahead and that it may not produce the solutions you desire.

It takes me back to my original point. It wasn’t intended to upset you. You are not going to find the answers you need here. They need to come from you, your wife, and your discussions with the Church through your parish priest.

Matt

 

[Warrior1979]

If her first marriage is found to be valid you will not be able to marry her at all.

This certainly is a possibility. It should be noted that even if valid, her marriage is not sacramental, and can in theory be dissolved. This might be a reasonable path to pursue if the wife wished to become a Catholic. Obviously, resolving the situation in that manner is very complicated, the details of which can only be answered by the Church.

 

[Castello]

This certainly is a possibility. It should be noted that even if valid, her marriage is not sacramental, and can in theory be dissolved. This might be a reasonable path to pursue if the wife wished to become a Catholic. Obviously, resolving the situation in that manner is very complicated, the details of which can only be answered by the Church.

I’m pretty sure the only way for this to happen would be for her to convert to the Faith and be validly baptized (favor of the Faith).

 

[theswan]

hello again and happy thanksgiving

I have spoken with my priest as I said but have not sat down to start the process. As this may take a few months, I will update when it is resolved one way or the other.

As for now, I continue as a choir member and cantor and that is a joy to be part of. I will miss my duties at the nursing home but in honesty, feel a bit relieved as my disability was making my “rounds” difficult. ( Father brings Mass to the community room and those too feeble or unable to attend, we bring the Eucharist to. this can be up to 4 floors)

On another matter unrelated to this, we sang the parts of the Mass this whole year in the 'German" form-I will miss it and we the choir sang at Christ King mass, I got misty as it was the last time for at least a year-And the new text is out so it has to be adapted. (sigh)

Peace to all

Glen