Marriage issues and entering the church

[Default]

I am strongly considering entering the church and have been speaking to priests about this for well over a year. I have attended mass frequently and have been reading quite a few catholic works at the priests’ direction. My problem is that my wife is not religious at all. She is generally supportive of me becoming catholic but doesn’t have any desire to try to enter the church with me. We have a couple of kids and my wife does not want any more (we are in our 40s). My issue is that if we aren’t sold on nfp (she certainly is not) then is it better to wait until my wife hits menopause before I try to enter the church which could be 10 plus years? Or should I approach my wife about full abstinence as an option at least until she hits menopause? She quite frankly may not have any problems with full abstinence. I appreciate any guidance or advice anyone has on this.

 

[edwest2]

I am strongly considering entering the church and have been speaking to priests about this for well over a year. I have attended mass frequently and have been reading quite a few catholic works at the priests’ direction. My problem is that my wife is not religious at all. She is generally supportive of me becoming catholic but doesn’t have any desire to try to enter the church with me. We have a couple of kids and my wife does not want any more (we are in our 40s). My issue is that if we aren’t sold on nfp (she certainly is not) then is it better to wait until my wife hits menopause before I try to enter the church which could be 10 plus years? Or should I approach my wife about full abstinence as an option at least until she hits menopause? She quite frankly may not have any problems with full abstinence. I appreciate any guidance or advice anyone has on this.

This would definitely be something you should bring up with your priest. He would be your best guide with this.

God bless,
Ed

 

[NFPWife]

Welcome!

I would not advise you to delay entering the Church.

My husband and I promote NFP for Marriage Preps in our diocese and also instruct in an NFP model. Your dilemma is one that comes up when a mixed-faith couple is marrying.

Your role in this situation would be to express your objections to artificial birth control and to encourage your wife to consider practicing NFP as a couple. If your wife does not want to use NFP and chooses to use ABC, you have no culpability as long as you’re not directly using the contraceptive. Meaning, you wouldn’t get sterilized or use a condom. You are not obligated to abstain.

I’d recommend that you ask your wife to go to an NFP class with you and show her some of the research/ literature. I’d also suggest that you offer to keep the chart and agree to participate to a high degree. She’ll have to give you cervical mucus details, of course, but you would have the primary role in recording them and then the two of you would interpret the chart together. Also, if she would do a method with a basal body temperature reading, you could set the alarm and give her the thermometer. (DH and I do a method that uses urine test strips and I’ve said elsewhere here that he’s Johnny on the spot if I forget to grab a stick.)

Also, think about how you can “accommodate” or “incentivize” your wife for doing NFP with you. Maybe there’s a sacrifice she’d like you to make for her. Is there a household chore you could take over? Maybe you’re on permanent bathroom duty. Maybe she likes to shop and if does NFP with you, you pick up some gift cards to a place she likes to frequent. Maybe you send her on a spa day every so often because you appreciate her doing this with you. Maybe you keep the kiddos so she can have a girls’ night with her friends. Or you arrange a sitter for a date night with you. You know your wife and what she might find to be a reasonable compromise or incentive.

 

[PennyinCanada]

NFP really is fertility awareness. Once on women ovulates, her period will come in so many set days, and that is very handy to know. You can tell when your ovulation is delayed because of illness or stress or whatever. When I was a teenager, I wish I had the opportunity to learn NFP to understand my body better and not be surprised by my period at a very inconvenient moment. If you happen to have girls, I think that would be a very good incentive to learn NFP, at least for their benefit. It might be a way to open the door for your wife to be more interested.

I hope you come into the Church sooner rather than later and get plugged into the graces that God wishes to give you and your family. You never know what challenges are ahead for you tomorrow and how much of God’s grace and help you’ll need!

 

[BettyBoop416]

Also, think about how you can “accommodate” or “incentivize” your wife for doing NFP with you. Maybe there’s a sacrifice she’d like you to make for her. Is there a household chore you could take over? Maybe you’re on permanent bathroom duty.

While I’m sure your suggestions are sincere and well-meaning, to be honest, this one made me laugh. It’s been my experience that when most non-Catholics think of NFP, the first thing that comes to mind is the rhythm method - AKA Vatican Roulette. They think of it as being terribly unreliable. To suggest that a non-Catholic woman give up a method of birth control that is known to be reliable for one that (in her mind anyway) has a high probability of resulting in an unwanted pregnancy and an additional 20 years of child-rearing - in exchange for having DH clean the bathroom…well, it made me laugh.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

My friend, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by waiting to join the Church. You are not responsible for your wife not being religious. Only the Holy Spirit can convert her and there is no way to know how long that may take. The best thing you can do for her and for yourself is to become an active Christian and to pray for her every day.

 

[PaulGH]

I am strongly considering entering the church and have been speaking to priests about this for well over a year. I have attended mass frequently and have been reading quite a few catholic works at the priests’ direction. My problem is that my wife is not religious at all. She is generally supportive of me becoming catholic but doesn’t have any desire to try to enter the church with me. We have a couple of kids and my wife does not want any more (we are in our 40s). My issue is that if we aren’t sold on nfp (she certainly is not) then is it better to wait until my wife hits menopause before I try to enter the church which could be 10 plus years? Or should I approach my wife about full abstinence as an option at least until she hits menopause? She quite frankly may not have any problems with full abstinence. I appreciate any guidance or advice anyone has on this.

First, it is wonderful to hear that you are considering becoming Catholic. I wish you a good journey (hopefully) into the Catholic Church.

Second, what is right and wrong does not change, whether you are Catholic or not. In other words, the teaching against contraception is not an arbitrary rule that is placed on Catholics only, but rather a part of the natural law that applies to all people. Therefore, I would advise you to go ahead and enter the church, and to do your best to deal with the contraception vs. abstinence vs. NFP issue.

Third, if your wife chooses to use contraception, but you do not participate in using the contraception (e.g., you do not use a condom, or go to the store to pick up her birth control), and you make known to your wife that you are opposed to contraception, then you do not sin by having relations with your wife while she uses contraception. You can read more about this in the following document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_12021997_vademecum_en.html

Especially look at paragraphs 13 and 14 under “3. Pastoral Guidelines for Confessors,” as well as the footnotes referenced in those paragraphs. And in fact, it might be a good idea to print this document and then go and discuss it with the priest who has been recommending books for you to read, since this document really is intended for priests more than for laymen.

Having said that, full abstinence is a morally acceptable option as well, if you and your wife both agree to it, but she has a right to change her mind on this later (as do you).

 

[Default]

Thank you everyone who has responded so far. This is all very helpful and I greatly appreciate the advice. A couple more facts I would add based on the responses so far are

1. I will admit that the unacceptable birth control we have historically used is solely my own responsibility. My wife does not use any pills or other devices and we don’t use condoms or anything.
2. Our marriage at this point is better than it has been but we are certainly not extremely emotionally close. I would estimate that we engage in marital relations probably 5-6 times a year over the past several years. That is why I think that total abstinence is frankly not a big deal and also I am not sure that my wife would agree to engage in any part of the monitoring work that nfp entails. Having said that I am really torn because I don’t think that complete abstinence will draw us any closer and may actually push us farther apart. Our relationship is not really bad by any means but it is pretty businesslike at this point.
3. I agree with people who say I should not delay. I know deep down that is correct. One example of why I know this is correct is that my. 10 year old daughter and I found a parish near us that does perpetual adoration. We often wake up early before school and work and spend a half hour or so in front of the blessed sacrament. I have to say that is an indescribable experience. Even though I have never experienced any true sacrament to my knowledge I can palpably feel the real presence and it is amazing that my daughter who hates getting up in the morning will do that and she can really feel it as well. I told my wife that the reason we are able to do that is because it is actually true. It has already made a huge transformation in my life even though I have never been baptized to my knowledge and have of course never taken the true communion in a Catholic Church. My daughter is an unbelievable blessing to me and quite frankly I may not be here now had God not given her to me.

Again thanks for the great feedback. Any additional feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[NFPWife]

While I’m sure your suggestions are sincere and well-meaning, to be honest, this one made me laugh. It’s been my experience that when most non-Catholics think of NFP, the first thing that comes to mind is the rhythm method - AKA Vatican Roulette. They think of it as being terribly unreliable. To suggest that a non-Catholic woman give up a method of birth control that is known to be reliable for one that (in her mind anyway) has a high probability of resulting in an unwanted pregnancy and an additional 20 years of child-rearing - in exchange for having DH clean the bathroom…well, it made me laugh.

I’m glad it made you laugh. Usually I only crack myself up.

Reading between the lines, the method they’re currently using is highly unreliable. At least as unreliable as the calendar method so I don’t think this is a lady who is going to be motivated by reliability stats. I get the sense that she doesn’t like hassle and has respect for her body as she won’t use pills, devices etc.

If this relationship is kind of business like, the communication required for NFP could (and likely would) bring about more closeness. I think the OP finding a way a practical way to motivate her to go a promotion talk, meet an NFP practicing couple, and take a class makes sense. He knows what might work with his wife, maybe it’s “Honey this is important to me, please keep an open mind, please try this with me. I think it will bring us closer and increase our intimacy.” She struck me as more pragmatic for some reason so I went to more instrumental things. The bottom line is we all know how to motivate our spouses, maybe it’s an emotional appeal for a better marriage, maybe it’s reducing the hassle in another area of his/ her life, maybe it’s a new Dooney.

 

[NFPWife]

Thank you everyone who has responded so far. This is all very helpful and I greatly appreciate the advice. A couple more facts I would add based on the responses so far are

1. I will admit that the unacceptable birth control we have historically used is solely my own responsibility. My wife does not use any pills or other devices and we don’t use condoms or anything.
2. Our marriage at this point is better than it has been but we are certainly not extremely emotionally close. I would estimate that we engage in marital relations probably 5-6 times a year over the past several years. That is why I think that total abstinence is frankly not a big deal and also I am not sure that my wife would agree to engage in any part of the monitoring work that nfp entails. Having said that I am really torn because I don’t think that complete abstinence will draw us any closer and may actually push us farther apart. Our relationship is not really bad by any means but it is pretty businesslike at this point.
3. I agree with people who say I should not delay. I know deep down that is correct. One example of why I know this is correct is that my. 10 year old daughter and I found a parish near us that does perpetual adoration. We often wake up early before school and work and spend a half hour or so in front of the blessed sacrament. I have to say that is an indescribable experience. Even though I have never experienced any true sacrament to my knowledge I can palpably feel the real presence and it is amazing that my daughter who hates getting up in the morning will do that and she can really feel it as well. I told my wife that the reason we are able to do that is because it is actually true. It has already made a huge transformation in my life even though I have never been baptized to my knowledge and have of course never taken the true communion in a Catholic Church. My daughter is an unbelievable blessing to me and quite frankly I may not be here now had God not given her to me.

Again thanks for the great feedback. Any additional feedback would be greatly appreciated.

To your first point - As I said above, I’m reading between the lines here, but if you’re using the method I think you’re using, it’s pretty unreliable so I wouldn’t expect your wife to be overly concerned about reliability, correct? TO BE CLEAR AND ACCURATE though, most modern NFP methods are highly scientific and highly reliable. The standard day method is a, IMO, trumped up calendar method. It’s reliability is lower. Women need to have cycles of 26-32 days to use it. Interestingly, it’s one you could use without any (name removed by moderator)ut from her. BUT, not highly reliable. (I hope I said that enough )

1. NFP could bring you two closer together - is your wife interested in increased emotional intimacy with you? If you learned, say the Billings Method, the monitoring required is minimal. External observation only, no checking of cervical position, no basal body temp (typically referred to as BBT,) no urine monitoring. She’d verbally tell you her most fertile sign at the end of the day. You’d keep the chart.

Marquette with the fertility formula and monitor would be a little more effort but sill could be low hassle for her. You could have her leave her first morning urine in a little Dixie cup, you dip the stick and pop it in the monitor. You could abstain following the most conservative guidelines and, if you used all those days, you’d likely have 11 available days. (Obviously individual and couple fertility varies, that’s just a guesstimate.) Based on the frequency you offer, that seems workable.

1. Will your daughter enter RCIC if you enter the RCIA program? It sounds like the two of you could start a beautiful faith journey together.

 

[PaulGH]

1. NFP could bring you two closer together - is your wife interested in increased emotional intimacy with you? If you learned, say the Billings Method, the monitoring required is minimal. External observation only, no checking of cervical position, no basal body temp (typically referred to as BBT,) no urine monitoring. She’d verbally tell you her most fertile sign at the end of the day. You’d keep the chart.

We use the Billings Method (or pretty much the Billings Method, with a bit of CCL mucus-only thrown in, but those two methods are very similar). My wife has found that the only hard part is getting into the habit of checking her mucus every time she goes to the bathroom. But once she is able to establish that habit, and truly make it a habit, the method is almost no trouble at all after that. Whether Default’s wife would be motivated enough to establish this habit, I don’t know. But if she could just get past that initial difficulty of making it a habit, NFP charting would be very easy from then on. (And he could do the actual charting.)

 

[Default]

I am not completely sure how strongly my wife feels about improving our emotional intimacy. That is why I am struggling to figure out a way to bring this up, and as some people have suggested to find a way to incentivize her. I think it is a good idea to try to incentivize her and at least the discussion can hopefully be used to broach the topic of the emotional state of our relationship generally.

I think if I do RCIA my daughter would be interested in the kids version. She is very positive toward the idea generally.

As far as reliability I don’t want to get in a big argument about statistics, but the method we have used has been completely reliable for us at least. We have been together for 20+ years and certainly were fairly active when we were younger and never had an issue. I would also say that the two times we tried to conceive we did so very quickly, so at least for us it worked well. I am not defending the practice morally and don’t pretend to know statistics for the population at large but at least from my experience it was very effective. I will say that I have read a lot of the NFP threads on here that devolve into heated exchanges citing this study to refute that study etc. and I have to say that the statistics and reasoned arguments don’t seem to be that satisfying to someone who is not in the church. What is more satisfying to me is simply that Jesus established a church to determine the morality of issues that he did not expressly deal with and that the church has a longstanding and to my understanding extremely clear position that NFP is ok but no other method is. To me the church’s authority in these areas is one of the most attractive things about the Catholic Church so if I am serious about becoming catholic I should be willing to trust that the church’s position is right. Again I am not trying to pick any fights but thought I would give my observation on this to consider when debating the birth control issue with non-Catholics or those who are trying to find a loophole in the church’s teaching.

I think as some have suggested I should use this opportunity to open a larger discussion and try to get my wife to attend a class with me with an open mind. That seems like the best place to start.

Again, thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.

 

[NFPWife]

… and I have to say that the statistics and reasoned arguments don’t seem to be that satisfying to someone who is not in the church. What is more satisfying to me is simply that Jesus established a church to determine the morality of issues that he did not expressly deal with and that the church has a longstanding and to my understanding extremely clear position that NFP is ok but no other method is. To me the church’s authority in these areas is one of the most attractive things about the Catholic Church so if I am serious about becoming catholic I should be willing to trust that the church’s position is right. …

.

I’m a convert, too, and that was my perspective when I entered the Church. I decided to step out in faith and obedience vs. reason. (Not that the stats don’t support reason and logic, just that NFP was a HEART thing for me.) I decided that if I was going to be Catholic, I would be CATH-O-LIC. Adoration, rosaries, chaplets, novenas, NFP, etc. etc.

I only mentioned reliability because I didn’t have the sense that your wife would be “sold” on reliability stats. Like I said, you know your wife and can think about what might engage her in the process with you.

It’s heartwarming to read that your daughter would be interested in entering the Church. I pray that your journey might inspire your wife.