Marriage obligations

[mardukm]

Two married Catholics.

SITUATION #1:
Spouse1 has a jealous and insecure personality and tells spouse2, “I don’t want you to associate with your friends anymore. If you love me, you will do this for me.”

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of his/her past friendships to appease spouse1?

Is the sin of jealousy being enabled if spouse2 decides to agree?

SITUATION #2:
A friend of spouse2 has offended spouse1. The friend apologizes, but spouse1 cannot forgive. Spouse1 tells spouse2 to cut off his/her friendship with the friend.

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of the friendship? Or is spouse2, rather, under a moral obligation to promote peace between the parties?

Blessings

 

[rpp]

Two married Catholics.

SITUATION #1:
Spouse1 has a jealous and insecure personality and tells spouse2, “I don’t want you to associate with your friends anymore. If you love me, you will do this for me.”

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of his/her past friendships to appease spouse1?

Is the sin of jealousy being enabled if spouse2 decides to agree?

SITUATION #2:
A friend of spouse2 has offended spouse1. The friend apologizes, but spouse1 cannot forgive. Spouse1 tells spouse2 to cut off his/her friendship with the friend.

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of the friendship? Or is spouse2, rather, under a moral obligation to promote peace between the parties?

Blessings

No and No.

Rather, the spouse to who the demands are made is obligated, in both cases to either get the help the other spouse needs. Clearly the spouse making the demands is wrong.

Isolating a person from their friends and family is often part of the pattern of domestic abuse.

 

[AdriannaJean]

Completely agreed. Not to suggest that these marriages are abusive, but it is one of the warning signs. Friends and family are a gift from God, the spouse making the demands needs to learn how to trust an forgive. Suggest maybe some counseling or meetings with a priest to deal with these issues. The issues in the marriage are not due to one spouse having friends who offend occasionally (friends are humans too), the issues in the marriage are a lack of trust, respect and ability to forgive. The spouse giving up their friends does not solve any of the issue, it prolongs them. Focus should be put on solving the issues, not covering them up.

 

[mardukm]

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I really do appreciate it. To be honest, I was the friend of the spouse in the example.

My friend and I were best friends - we were like David and Jonathan, and there did not seem to be anything between us except God. We were both heavily into apologetics, and shared a deep love for God and the Church - much like the legendary friendship between St. Francis and St. Dominic. Eventually, he started dating this girl who had been an acquaintance for several years. They had a rocky relationship, and this girl was anything but holy when she was upset at my friend. Because of her insecurities, she several times broke off their relationship in a flurry of curses (literally). She tried to be a good Catholic, but it was obvious (to both myself and my friend) that her focus was not really God, but rather him - IOW, she did holy things out of a desire to please my friend first, and not to please God. My friend, realizing this, tried to separate from her several times with the advise that she should try to focus on her relationship with God first. This made her fly into demonic rages - literally. She never was able to leave him alone for more than 2 days without harrassing him with 3-hour phone calls in the middle of the night, promising that she’d changed. She did not care if he didn’t get any sleep, and she didn’t care if she woke up his housemates (she literally said that) - and this occurred MANY times.

Needless to say, she was very jealous of my closeness with my friend. I won’t burden you with the many evidences of this. I will mention that one time (before they were married, that is), when they had separated, she called me and admitted that her jealousies were getting in the way. Feeling she was sincere, I called my friend to try to mediate matters, and eventually they got back together. My mistake. Of course, she forthwith denied that she stated she felt any jealousy. This woman quit her job to be physically closer to him. This woman quit her school to be physically closer to him. And these incidents did not occur for the purpose of marriage. What sane person would do that? The woman was not mentally balanced.

To make a long story short, they got married (I was the best man), and 4 months later, my friend calls me and tells me that we cannot be friends anymore. The reason he gave was that he could no longer balance the demands of his wife with his friendship with me. Realize that I had not spoken to my friend in those 4 months at all. And then I get this call out of the blue. I was rather shocked. His wife must have been nagging him the whole time about me, even though we had not communicated at all in those four months!

This happened to me over two years ago, and at that time I was rather upset. I wanted to talk to someone about it, but I wanted my reasons to be pure, instead of being based on anger. So I have never really spoken to anyone about the whole situation (the most I’d say when other friends asked, “oh, how is — doing?” I’d respond that we lost touch, which was a shock to them). Like I said, that was over two years ago, and I have not really thought about it for a long time, but I recently had a dream about my (former) best friend, and it brought up a lot of uncomfortable feelings, so I wanted to talk about it.

Thanks for your ears.

Blessings

 

[Lynxdk]

I completely agree with what they both said above, mardukm. It can be a tricky thing to deal with because sometimes people just have hurt feelings from past experiences colouring their present experiences, and if talked about and worked out, often with counseling if need be, things can be made whole and well again… but giving into that sort of demand, or not discussing it at all, tends to just make things worse, but it can be so uncomfortable a subject to work on to start with for some folks… they often don’t even ~want~ to try until their demands are given into… and then they don’t need to talk about it since the immediate demand is satisfied…

I speak from my own experience… living with 8 years of abuse because I didn’t have the sense or will power at the start to simply say “No, and we need to work this out.” So instead I kept giving into, an inch at a time till I had no inches left to give, and divorce was the result… and the problem is you can’t really tell someone that most of the time… my own uncle, after the divorce, told me he wanted to put a stop to it in the church, when they asked “speak now…” and I had to tell him… if you had done that then, I’d only have hated you for it. Sometimes people have to make and grow through their own mistakes, as much as it can sometimes hurt others around them for a time.

 

[AdriannaJean]

Oh my. That would be terrible hard for you and I am so sorry you had to go through that. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but your friend needs you. Having been in emotionally abusive relationships myself, the worst thing that can happen is losing the people you care about, especially close friends. Your friend will need you more than ever. His wife just needs to suck it up and get some serious help. Write him a letter, show up with a cake and flowers for his wife. Say that you won’t be much of a “time-hog” and offer to get together maybe once a month, or invite him to join a book club that discusses religious books. What he needs most is a part of his life without this woman. It’s the only way he is going to be able to stay sane.

 

[brandymmiller]

Two married Catholics.

SITUATION #1:
Spouse1 has a jealous and insecure personality and tells spouse2, “I don’t want you to associate with your friends anymore. If you love me, you will do this for me.”

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of his/her past friendships to appease spouse1?

Is the sin of jealousy being enabled if spouse2 decides to agree?

SITUATION #2:
A friend of spouse2 has offended spouse1. The friend apologizes, but spouse1 cannot forgive. Spouse1 tells spouse2 to cut off his/her friendship with the friend.

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of the friendship? Or is spouse2, rather, under a moral obligation to promote peace between the parties?

Blessings

Situation 1: Has spouse2 given spouse1 any valid reason to be suspicious of their behavior? i.e. Does spouse2 have a habit of keeping close friends of the opposite sex and might spouse1 be picking up on signals from these friends that suggest there is more to their interest than mere friendship? I would suggest spouse2 ask questions and examining their own conscious before proceeding. Afterward, I would suggest going to a priest for counseling. If the relationship is truly as controlling as you say, then psychological help is needed - but it needs to be help with a family focus. Spouse2 and spouse1 did not get together by accident. Unhealthy people are drawn to other unhealthy people. Trust me. I speaketh from long and enduring experience.

Situation2: You cannot promote trust by deceiving your partner, and the marriage must come first. However, spouse2 must continue to work to encourage spouse1 to forgive since that forgiveness is a moral prerequisite for entrance into heaven. it is the job of spouses to work for the highest good of one another - and that highest good means heaven. If your spouse has trouble forgiving others, they should be reminded as gently and as frequently as necessary that we say a million times over in the Our Father that we want God to “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”. If spouse1 refuses to forgive spouse2’s friend, no matter how grave the offense, spouse1 is putting their soul in danger.

Speak with a priest on this matter, and trust the situation to God in prayer.

 

[brandymmiller]

Like I said, that was over two years ago, and I have not really thought about it for a long time, but I recently had a dream about my (former) best friend, and it brought up a lot of uncomfortable feelings, so I wanted to talk about it.

Thanks for your ears.

Blessings

You were given that dream because your friend urgently needs your prayers, and so does his wife.

Now that you’ve spelled out a bit more of the story - I’d guessed at least some of it - my advice to you is that you get on your knees in Eucharistic Adoration and you do battle for your friend and his wife. Their souls are both in danger.

Your friend got caught up with that woman out of pity, he thought he could help her. However, her needs are so deep she’s like a black hole and will suck everything out of him if he doesn’t have someone in his corner praying for him constantly and with sincere devotion. You are going to have to play Jonathan to his David - he’s picked a heck of a fight - but if you are faithful in your prayers and devotions for him he will come out of this better than ever.

The woman has been seriously abused at some point in her life and is clinging to your friend like a life raft, not realizing that she is cutting him off from the very sources of his stability. She is desperately afraid your friend will leave her, so certain of it in fact that she is trying to cut off all avenues of escape for him. She has a world of issues - she doesn’t feel worthy of being loved and so everytime a guy leaves her it just reinforces that feeling of being unloved, yet she creates environments which are so stifling that the human heart either dies in her clutches or has to break free. It’s a horrible position to be in.

Now, the good news is that Christ can heal even this messy situation - but you’re going to have to intervene faithfully and continuously. Pray daily that her heart may be opened to Christ’s love since that is the only love big enough to fill the vacuum and call upon your friend’s guardian angel to send him messages of your love while you are seperated. Trust in God - and don’t give up praying. You have been drawn into this battle for a reason. Offer up the pain of your separation from your friend in reparation for sin and ask that it be used to help heal the pain of sin which his wife carries.

 

[LongingForLight]

May I recommend a post in the Prayer Warriors forum on their behalf? After all, no marriage is hurt by more prayers!

 

[Lynxdk]

You were given that dream because your friend urgently needs your prayers, and so does his wife.

Now that you’ve spelled out a bit more of the story - I’d guessed at least some of it - my advice to you is that you get on your knees in Eucharistic Adoration and you do battle for your friend and his wife. Their souls are both in danger.

Your friend got caught up with that woman out of pity, he thought he could help her. However, her needs are so deep she’s like a black hole and will suck everything out of him if he doesn’t have someone in his corner praying for him constantly and with sincere devotion. You are going to have to play Jonathan to his David - he’s picked a heck of a fight - but if you are faithful in your prayers and devotions for him he will come out of this better than ever.

The woman has been seriously abused at some point in her life and is clinging to your friend like a life raft, not realizing that she is cutting him off from the very sources of his stability. She is desperately afraid your friend will leave her, so certain of it in fact that she is trying to cut off all avenues of escape for him. She has a world of issues - she doesn’t feel worthy of being loved and so everytime a guy leaves her it just reinforces that feeling of being unloved, yet she creates environments which are so stifling that the human heart either dies in her clutches or has to break free. It’s a horrible position to be in.

That is a ~very~ clear description of my marriage. The results of mine are still messy, especially for the kids since my ex uses them just to hurt me for leaving her, so divorce is not really a solution, but by the time I woke up enough to realize the abuse she was visiting on me was also being directed at the kids as well, I reacted quickly trying to protect them from further harm, and still… more problems result.

Not good news if they have kids, eh? but at least you have that on your side if you get to talk to him about it. Divorce is not a real solution because of that kind of clingyness will just come out worse if he leaves, but staying and working through it seems impossible, and is, when you do it alone.

Now, the good news is that Christ can heal even this messy situation - but you’re going to have to intervene faithfully and continuously. Pray daily that her heart may be opened to Christ’s love since that is the only love big enough to fill the vacuum and call upon your friend’s guardian angel to send him messages of your love while you are seperated. Trust in God - and don’t give up praying. You have been drawn into this battle for a reason. Offer up the pain of your separation from your friend in reparation for sin and ask that it be used to help heal the pain of sin which his wife carries.

 

[mardukm]

THank you everyone for your replies!

Your caring responses have helped me out.

I have to admit that praying for my friend is hard to do, not because I feel animosity towards him, but because of the hurt feelings that come up when I think about it - feelings that I’d rather try to avoid.

But I guess the prayer will be more powerful if done even (and especially) when hurting.

Thank you, once again.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[flyingfish]

Two married Catholics.

SITUATION #1:
Spouse1 has a jealous and insecure personality and tells spouse2, “I don’t want you to associate with your friends anymore. If you love me, you will do this for me.”

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of his/her past friendships to appease spouse1?

Is the sin of jealousy being enabled if spouse2 decides to agree?

SITUATION #2:
A friend of spouse2 has offended spouse1. The friend apologizes, but spouse1 cannot forgive. Spouse1 tells spouse2 to cut off his/her friendship with the friend.

Is spouse2 under a moral obligation to let go of the friendship? Or is spouse2, rather, under a moral obligation to promote peace between the parties?

Blessings

I don’t think any such moral obligations exists. “spouse1” sounds possessive, controlling, and MANIPULATIVE (“if you love me…”). These types of people want to isolate their partner from friends, family, and everything else so they’re more easily controlled.

 

[pia]

Have you thought about contacting him, it is obvious from you’re post that you are upset at the way things happened, you had a great friendship which i’m sure you never imagined would end, and certainly not in the way it did. It’s been two year’s as you say, why don’t you give him a call, you never know maybe he has regretted the way he ended you’re friendship and feels after the way he treated you that you may not want to have anything to do with him.You won’t know until you make that phone call, remember good friend’s are hard to find and at one time that’s what he was, and maybe he could be that good friend again. If on the other hand he still feels the same as he did two years ago and does not want to renew you’re friendship then it is his loss. I personally think he will be glad to hear from you. Good luck in whatever you decide to do and God Bless

 

[iluvmybabies]

No and No.

Rather, the spouse to who the demands are made is obligated, in both cases to either get the help the other spouse needs. Clearly the spouse making the demands is wrong.

Isolating a person from their friends and family is often part of the pattern of domestic abuse.

Yup I know about that stuff!! Lol…

 

[mardukm]

Have you thought about contacting him, it is obvious from you’re post that you are upset at the way things happened, you had a great friendship which i’m sure you never imagined would end, and certainly not in the way it did. It’s been two year’s as you say, why don’t you give him a call, you never know maybe he has regretted the way he ended you’re friendship and feels after the way he treated you that you may not want to have anything to do with him.You won’t know until you make that phone call, remember good friend’s are hard to find and at one time that’s what he was, and maybe he could be that good friend again. If on the other hand he still feels the same as he did two years ago and does not want to renew you’re friendship then it is his loss. I personally think he will be glad to hear from you. Good luck in whatever you decide to do and God Bless

I never thought of that, actually. I’m rather wary of doing so. He specifically told me that I was a cause of tension between him and his wife, so I just wanted to respect his wishes (to not be his friend) because I did not want to cause any unnecessary flare-ups between them. Someone did suggest earlier that my dream may have been a message from God that my friend needs prayers. So I will pray for him.

But you do bring up a good point that maybe he does want to contact me, but won’t do it because he is ashamed. I’ll pray on it. Thanks.

Blessings,
Marduk