Marriage/Openness to Children-Any considerations?

[Augustk]

Hello to All,

I’m looking for some sound Catholic advice regarding my following personal situation.

I’m 34 and dating a divorced man who is almost 46. He is a good man who raised two children on his own (now age 20 and 21), but now feels that he is “too old” to start over again. (His 20 year old daughter just had a baby, so he is now a grandfather.) He would like to get married to me, but feels very apprehensive to have children again, primarily because of his age. He’s worried about his energy/health as he gets older. I, personally am nervous about having children, but always intended to be open to it. In short, I have mixed feelings about the situation. I practice my faith and know that this is an issue.

The reality is that if his wife had not left his first family, he would have had two children and then have been done with the childbearing/raising stage. Now that he has met and fell in love with me, and I am much younger, it is an issue. Sadly, we are probably going to end the relationship due to this issue and boy has it been difficult to find a man of potential marriage material these days!

What is the Catholic Church response to this? Does the Church they take into account concerns about his age with regard to remarrying but having/not having children or must we definitely have children despite his age?

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[mchale]

Hello to All,

I’m looking for some sound Catholic advice regarding my following personal situation.

I’m 34 and dating a divorced man who is almost 46. He is a good man who raised two children on his own (now age 20 and 21), but now feels that he is “too old” to start over again. (His 20 year old daughter just had a baby, so he is now a grandfather.) He would like to get married to me, but feels very apprehensive to have children again, primarily because of his age. He’s worried about his energy/health as he gets older. I, personally am nervous about having children, but always intended to be open to it. In short, I have mixed feelings about the situation. I practice my faith and know that this is an issue.

The reality is that if his wife had not left his first family, he would have had two children and then have been done with the childbearing/raising stage. Now that he has met and fell in love with me, and I am much younger, it is an issue. Sadly, we are probably going to end the relationship due to this issue and boy has it been difficult to find a man of potential marriage material these days!

What is the Catholic Church response to this? Does the Church they take into account concerns about his age with regard to remarrying but having/not having children or must we definitely have children despite his age?

Thanks for any help you can give.

I assume that he is undergoing the annulment process?

Regarding age/health issues. Yes, at 46, he is not as young as he use to be, but he is hardly dead yet. None of us, regardless of how young we are when we have Children can be sure that we will have the lifespan and energy needed to raise them. That being said, at age 46, barring a life threatening illness, I would say he has an excellent chance to see any new children grow to adulthood. In addition, his prior experience with parenting and the wisdom that comes with age can be worth more to any children than the energy levels of his youth.

Now, do you definitely have to have children? That gets a little complicated. As a Catholic, you know that the only option you have to prevent pregnancy is Natural Family Planning. The Church’s position is that it should be used to delay or space children for serious reasons. I am pretty sure that preventing pregnancy all together is not allowed.

Now one final thought. It is important to remember that barring sterilization, there is no sure method of birth control. If you and he decided to not have any children, how would he react if you became pregnant by accident?

–
Bill

 

[Spencerian]

Hi.

The Catechism doesn’t appear to discuss the matter of being open to children in a new marriage when children from a prior union already exist.

Marriages, in the eyes of the Church, do seem to encourage it for the young, as the openness to children is part of the reason to marry.

That said, I will be marrying in November. I, too, will be 46 at that time, and will have my 14 year-old son as a groomsman.

Will my then-40 year-old spouse and I still be open to a new baby?

Yes. However, your spouse has a point, as I would argue for myself. While I would not do anything to place an obstacle to having a new child (in fact, it will be great fun and happiness to have one), there are many personal reasons why it may not be a great idea for us. Obviously, age is critical for childbearing in women, and birth defects and such are more likely.

But there is another point. It takes quite a bit of fortitude to raise kids, no matter what age. Being older, I think I can do what is needed for a newborn, but I am not sure.

It’s one of those things I pray on for the Lord’s guidance. But to marry means I remain open to children. Your husband-to-be should keep this in mind. God bless.

 

[tjm190]

1. You may not be able to get married to him (within the Church that is), depending on the state of his last marriage.
2. Does he personally feel bound by the Catholic Church’s teachings? If so, then he should know that he doesn’t have any options for putting of pregnancy indefinitely.
3. If not, then has he considered getting a vasectomy?

 

[Joe_5859]

Definitely talk this over with your priest. He will be able to guide you in ways that we here at CAF cannot.

Note, the Church’s requirement is to be open to life, not to bear as many children as quickly as you can. If he is adamantly opposed to having more children, then that is definitely an obstacle. If he has a strong preference, but is not 100% closed off to the idea of children, that may be a different matter. Again, talk to your priest to sort all this out.

Bill brings up a good point, too. If he has decided he doesn’t want more children, how does he plan on implementing this decision? Artificial contraception and sterilization are not moral choices for Catholics. NFP is allowed and that is open to life.

 

[bnbkaine]

1. You may not be able to get married to him (within the Church that is), depending on the state of his last marriage.
2. Does he personally feel bound by the Catholic Church’s teachings? If so, then he should know that he doesn’t have any options for putting of pregnancy indefinitely.
3. If not, then has he considered getting a vasectomy?

There is another thread about when someone could become responsible for someone else’s sin and I have to say that your Option 3 is definitely heading in that direction.

Augustk- Your soon to be husband should not have a vasectomy. He needs to be open to life. I don’t think the central meaning of marriage changes with age.

 

[SonCatcher]

The Catechism doesn’t appear to discuss the matter of being open to children in a new marriage when children from a prior union already exist.

Marriages, in the eyes of the Church, do seem to encourage it for the young, as the openness to children is part of the reason to marry.

The Church holds older married and remarried couples to the same standard as young couples. Even if both are widowed and in their 70s (thus, biologically beyond the ability to conceive), she expects the couple to be open to life. However, due to the extremely rare occurrence of geriatric childbearing (e.g. Abraham & Sarah and Zechariah & Elizabeth), the Church remains silent (probably to avoid giggles, etc. in the middle of the ceremony).

If either of the couple, for any reason, enters marriage closed to new life, the marriage is invalid.

 

[Spencerian]

The Church holds older married and remarried couples to the same standard as young couples. Even if both are widowed and in their 70s (thus, biologically beyond the ability to conceive), she expects the couple to be open to life. However, due to the extremely rare occurrence of geriatric childbearing (e.g. Abraham & Sarah and Zechariah & Elizabeth), the Church remains silent (probably to avoid giggles, etc. in the middle of the ceremony).

If either of the couple, for any reason, enters marriage closed to new life, the marriage is invalid.

Thanks for that clarification. Is there a Church document that supports your information as well? (It does make sense Scripturally, based on the Biblical figures you noted).

 

[SonCatcher]

The Church holds older married and remarried couples to the same standard as young couples. Even if both are widowed and in their 70s (thus, biologically beyond the ability to conceive), she expects the couple to be open to life. However, due to the extremely rare occurrence of geriatric childbearing (e.g. Abraham & Sarah and Zechariah & Elizabeth), the Church remains silent (probably to avoid giggles, etc. in the middle of the ceremony).

From the USCCB website:

1. What is the difference between a valid and an invalid Catholic marriage?

Just as individual states have certain requirements for civil marriage (e.g., a marriage license, blood tests), the Catholic Church also has requirements before Catholics can be considered validly married in the eyes of the Church. A valid Catholic marriage results from four elements: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they freely exchange their consent; (3) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; and (4) their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by church authority.

From the CCC:

The openness to fertility

1652 “By its very nature the institution of marriage and married love is ordered to the procreation and education of the offspring and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory.”

Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: "It is not good that man should be alone," and "from the beginning [he] made them male and female"; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: "Be fruitful and multiply." Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.

1653 The fruitfulness of conjugal love extends to the fruits of the moral, spiritual, and supernatural life that parents hand on to their children by education. Parents are the principal and first educators of their children. In this sense the fundamental task of marriage and family is to be at the service of life.

1654 Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.

1664 Unity, indissolubility, and openness to fertility are essential to marriage. Polygamy is incompatible with the unity of marriage; divorce separates what God has joined together; the refusal of fertility turns married life away from its “supreme gift,” the child.

There is no distinction in age at all. CCC 1654 explains that the mere fact of not having children does not negate an otherwise valid marriage. The only requirement regarding fertility is openness.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

One of my adult Confirmation students also had her marriage convalidated. They opted for an evening mass, attended by many of their friends in the parish. As they stood up at the altar with their four children the pastor said. " I know this sounds silly but I have to ask, ‘Are you open to children’" One of her small nieces piped up, " Does that mean Aunt ___ is going to have another baby? [pause] I wish she’d get a puppy instead."

 

[CarrieH]

A decision at the time of the marriage to never have children is called “intention against children,” and someone who has this intention may not be validly married in the Church. Intention against children is also valid grounds for the annulment of an existing marriage, if someone went ahead and got married in this frame of mind. Your gentleman friend doesn’t get a “pass” because of his age, I’m sorry to tell you; 46 is mature but not old by any means.

Praying for discernment for the two of you.

And LOL at what Joe said. Puppy, indeed!

 

[blackrobe]

I think there is a point to be considered here before the question of some possible marriage in the future: You are dating a married man. Given that fact, considerations of the morality of possible future actions seems premature.

JSA