Marriage outside the church

[Blue_Horizon]

Do they know the wedding will be invalid in the eyes of the Church (I presume no special permissions have been sought)? Do they care?

If they do not care I would prob not go.

I have had a slight rethink…

In the light of the fact that:

• I believe Pope Francis will change Canon Law soon after his Family Synod at the end of year to recognise new grounds for annulling (perhaps dissolving may also be the correct term here) even a “Catholic marriage”.
• This will be on the grounds that the Catholic couple were well known not to actually personally believe (as suggested in 1990 by Pope Emeritus Benedict VI known as Cardinal Ratzinger at the time) so a sacramental bond was not effected.

then I would look at their wedding as if they were simply sincere heathens.

In other words, if you feel you have a caring human relationship with them and they with you (leaving all religious issues and contradictions aside) and they intend a monogomous permanent relationship … then attend as you would for any non-Christian friends marrying.

It isn’t as if they are non-believers pretending a Catholic marriage .
They are fairly obviously non-believers (sincerely celebrating a civil marriage) who by an accident of birth were baptised and taught Catholicism which they never really accepted.

It would be a scandal only if they wanted a proper Catholic wedding .

 

[muffindell]

What a load of tosh! The Catholic church recognises the marriage of any church, it just may not entirely approve, but that is purely doctrine. Any marriage should be celebrated, especially in a world where people tend to prefer to just live together without the full commitment of marriage. Remember we live in the 21st century not 2000 years ago, things have changed since then, the Catholic church should get up to speed with reality. Pope Francis seems to be doing this, about time to.

 

[1believer1]

muffindell
Re: Marriage outside the church
What a load of tosh! The Catholic church recognises the marriage of any church, it just may not entirely approve, but that is purely doctrine. Any marriage should be celebrated, especially in a world where people tend to prefer to just live together without the full commitment of marriage. Remember we live in the 21st century not 2000 years ago, things have changed since then, the Catholic church should get up to speed with reality. Pope Francis seems to be doing this, about time to.

I think that perhaps you do not fully understand your faith and the facts concerning marriage.There is only one Church that has followed GOD’S truth for 2000 years.
I may be wrong but I do not believe that the Catholic Church recognizes every/any marriage in every/any church While we live in the 21st century we have a faith and a truth that has not changed. I would encourage you to do some research using the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( article 7 ) The Sacrament of Matrimony. I would also encourage you to study on the meaning of doctrine… there is a reason for this.
Please do this prayerfully .

 

[LittleFlower378]

muffindell
Re: Marriage outside the church
What a load of tosh! The Catholic church recognises the marriage of any church, it just may not entirely approve, but that is purely doctrine. Any marriage should be celebrated, especially in a world where people tend to prefer to just live together without the full commitment of marriage. Remember we live in the 21st century not 2000 years ago, things have changed since then, the Catholic church should get up to speed with reality. Pope Francis seems to be doing this, about time to.

I think that perhaps you do not fully understand your faith and the facts concerning marriage.There is only one Church that has followed GOD’S truth for 2000 years.
I may be wrong but I do not believe that the Catholic Church recognizes every/any marriage in every/any church While we live in the 21st century we have a faith and a truth that has not changed. I would encourage you to do some research using the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( article 7 ) The Sacrament of Matrimony. I would also encourage you to study on the meaning of doctrine… there is a reason for this.
Please do this prayerfully .

We as Catholics don’t just want to settle because of what the world does. There still is a proper and doctrinal way to do things which leads to love, peace of mind, and avoids sin.

 

[muffindell]

muffindell
Re: Marriage outside the church
What a load of tosh! The Catholic church recognises the marriage of any church, it just may not entirely approve, but that is purely doctrine. Any marriage should be celebrated, especially in a world where people tend to prefer to just live together without the full commitment of marriage. Remember we live in the 21st century not 2000 years ago, things have changed since then, the Catholic church should get up to speed with reality. Pope Francis seems to be doing this, about time to.

I think that perhaps you do not fully understand your faith and the facts concerning marriage.There is only one Church that has followed GOD’S truth for 2000 years.
I may be wrong but I do not believe that the Catholic Church recognizes every/any marriage in every/any church While we live in the 21st century we have a faith and a truth that has not changed. I would encourage you to do some research using the Catechism of the Catholic Church ( article 7 ) The Sacrament of Matrimony. I would also encourage you to study on the meaning of doctrine… there is a reason for this.
Please do this prayerfully .

The Catholic church DOES recognise marriage from all Christian faiths, trust me I have first hand experience of that. Doctrine is man made, not god given. he reason that the current pope is so popular is that he is prepared to engage with his flock and what really matters to them. He is not afraid to tackle subjects such as contraception, same sex marriage and divorced members of the church; I have great faith in him and that he will modernise the catholic church and bring the gift of god to those who the church has so long turned its back on and tackle subjects that can alienate so many of us.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

The Catholic church DOES recognise marriage from all Christian faiths, trust me I have first hand experience of that. Doctrine is man made, not god given. he reason that the current pope is so popular is that he is prepared to engage with his flock and what really matters to them. He is not afraid to tackle subjects such as contraception, same sex marriage and divorced members of the church; I have great faith in him and that he will modernise the catholic church and bring the gift of god to those who the church has so long turned its back on and tackle subjects that can alienate so many of us.

MD there may be levels to this issue that contributors refer to that differ from what you are rightly affirming.

The Catholic church DOES recognise marriage from all Christian faiths

Yes, a non Catholic marriage (including non-Christian ones) is recognised by the Church but it does not have the same status as that between two committed Catholics.

Other marriages, even if valid, can be dissolved.
A valid Catholic marriage cannot be dissolved by any power on earth.

Doctrine is man made, not god given.

I know what you mean but, strictly speaking, your terminology is incorrect.
Yes, Church Disciplinary Teaching or Church “Positive Law” (including some Canon Law)can be said to be “man made” (ie changable) in the sense you mean it.

However, “Doctrine” for most Catholics really means much the same as “Dogma.”
If that be true then no, Dogma is not really man-made but man-proposed.

As the Catholic Encyclopedia puts it:
“But according to a long-standing usage a dogma is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful.”

Therefore it is unchangeable - however it is capable of being further refined.
And it certainly needs improved articulation/explanation for the average person as the olf formulations become archaic and meanings change rendering the teachings opaque or even incomprehensible.

Of course the reverse can happen also - an age can become so hardened to particular Christian values that the teaching is seen as ludicrous when in fact it is not.

Obviously it is an ongoing work of the whole Church to decide which of these two extremes applies for any given “silly” Doctrine.

 

[Casilda]

As someone who was married outside the Church, without permission, I think I can provide a different point of view (I received Radical Sanation - so my marriage is now recognized).

There are many of today’s young who simply do not understand or know Church teaching on this subject.

When I was getting married, I did NOT know about Dispensation and didn’t know how relatively easy it is to get. I was simply under the impression that I had to get married inside the Church or else. No one in my family knew about Dispensation. I didn’t know about Catholic.com and searched incorrect websites. I was also afraid to speak with a priest because I thought he would tell me that I have to marry inside the Church or leave the woman I love (this was based on how the media portrays this subject).

I would suggest the following (assuming that your family member is still Catholic and the future spouse is not Catholic), gently bring up the subject of Dispensation (to your Catholic family member or his/her parents). While the Bishop approved them, they are pretty easy to obtain. The Catholic party simply speaks with a parish priest, and the process is started.

It’s quite possible that they have no idea about the requirement of Dispensation or how simply it is. Its really worth doing. When I returned to the Faith and learned that I could not receive communion (and why), I almost started to cry and was very upset with myself. I could have avoided everything if I would have spoken with a priest.

Too often we laity place priests on a pedestal and are afraid to discuss these things with them due to fear of judgment (which is also why so many do not attend Confession).

God Bless

Am I correct in thinking a convalidation is making an invalid marriage valid by basically getting married again this time IN the church, versus a radical sanitation that makes your invalid marriage valid without having to get remarried? I feel as if I have committed the worst sin ever marrying a Christan in his church. I didn’t know about dispensations either.

 

[Vico]

Am I correct in thinking a convalidation is making an invalid marriage valid by basically getting married again this time IN the church, versus a radical sanitation that makes your invalid marriage valid without having to get remarried? I feel as if I have committed the worst sin ever marrying a Christan in his church. I didn’t know about dispensations either.

Radical sanation is a type of convalidation, which means healing in the root. The prior consent, that perdues, is used instead of new consent. Instead of having a celebration there is a dispensation from the form of matrimony. It is a new marriage from the moment of grant, but canonical effects go back to the original consent (originally used for legitimacy of children). It can be granted even without the knowledge of the spouse.

 

[Tridentine_MT]

Probably this is not the correct thread but here goes:

In a situation where a Roman Catholic who is a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy is in separation procedures of his marriage (Catholic), does the Orthodox Church have jurisdiction and can it declare a divorce?

If in the affirmative, what would the status of his first wife be in such a case?

 

[severus68]

they know what’s right but choose to do wrong.
I tried to admonish them , and I was told to ‘‘butt out’’

Perhaps, do not admonish but be kind. Tell them or get some other member of the family to inform them that they can have a simple Church wedding. Let their priest tell them what’s right and wrong.