Marriage prep and the pornography question - how worried should I be at "once a month"?

[AdamP88]

Walking away from the man they love is not going to help that man stop using porn.

It might. I think the line that “it’s very difficult and many men struggle with it” and that she’ll have a hard time finding a man who doesn’t struggle with porn is a bit counter-productive. People wouldn’t say this about alcohol addiction or if he was sleeping with different women while also preparing for marriage.
Are you better in a marriage that is damaged by porn/alcohol use than no marriage?
I’m not claiming to come from a position of always having been perfect but I know for a fact that it’s possible to come from a place of regular sexual sin, to zero sexual sin. Sure, it’s a struggle, but it’s not impossible. What needs to be determined here though is if this particular case is bad enough to warrant the OP reconsidering the marriage.

If he’d renounced porn then and there on the spot, while I may not believe that he’d never fall again, I’d be more inclined to think that he’s at least trying. But I don’t get that impression.

There is a grace in marriage that helps us to overcome our vices but the problem is that it needs to be worked upon before the marriage starts. Other things to look at would be does he pray regularly, what steps has he gone to to eliminate porn from his life thus far, and indeed, does he even see it as a major problem.

There are definitely catholic men out there who don’t view porn on a regular basis, and I don’t think they’re as uncommon as we’ve been led to believe.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I get where you’re coming from. If he had admitted to viewing porn years ago but not on an ongoing basis, and affirmed that this behaviour is unacceptable, then fair enough.

I think we would agree on this much: the big issue is his lack of interest in stopping. If he said “I occasionally slip with regards to pornography, but I’m working on it. I go to confession, I recognize it’s wrong, and my intention is to cut it out completely.” then I think the best response from her would be “cool, thanks for being honest. I’m obviously not okay with it, so I just need to know you’re committed to not doing this.”

The problem comes, for me, when she appears to expect some kind of guarantee he will never stumble again. I can see this poor guy saying “look, I’m going to do my best, but I can’t promise that I will never be less than perfect over the next five decades.”

 

[AdamP88]

If he said “I occasionally slip with regards to pornography, but I’m working on it. I go to confession, I recognize it’s wrong, and my intention is to cut it out completely.” then I think the best response from her would be “cool, thanks for being honest. I’m obviously not okay with it, so I just need to know you’re committed to not doing this.”

I think so to an extent. But I also think that would be enough for her to be on the alert, and to perhaps pay a bit more attention before thinking it’s all good. Perhaps also discerning if he is serious about it and finding out what steps he has taken to deal with the issue. I think there’s at least a tough conversation to be had.

The problem comes, for me, when she appears to expect some kind of guarantee he will never stumble again. I can see this poor guy saying “look, I’m going to do my best, but I can’t promise that I will never be less than perfect over the next five decades.”

I don’t think anybody’s asking that. But there’s a difference between stumbling with chastity and viewing porn. A guy can have a moment of weakness and masturbate, and be sorry etc. But porn requires you to actually go to the effort of looking something up on a phone/computer and taking the time to do that and then masturbate. It’s kind of like having sex with someone else in that respect, as there’s all this time where you have the opportunity to say “no” to something increasingly serious but you keep deciding not to.
I don’t expect a man to promise to be perfect, but I think it’s reasonable to expect someone to promise never to view porn, and I think that it’s possible to keep that promise.

I mean, when you make marriage vows you’re essentially promising not to be unfaithful to your spouse. Is it possible to go through you’re entire life/marriage without being unfaithful? I think so. Otherwise Christ wouldn’t have asked it of us.

I don’t think she should expect him never to stumble again in any way, or even in chastity. But I think it’s reasonable to expect an undertaking that he will never view porn again. If necessary he should give someone else access to his internet history etc. The measures he needs to take to tackle this now may be extreme but as time goes by the reins can probably be loosened a bit.

Bottom line, the OP needs to make sure he doesn’t take this issue into marriage. People talk about 70% of men viewing porn, but maybe if 70% of women challenged them to quit that figure would drop.

 

[1ke]

He said he used it about once a month but he wasn’t addicted.

It doesn’t matter that it’s “once a month”. Once a month is > zero.

I also caught him going to Hooters when I was out of town, and it’s not the first time he’s lied or made light of things I’ve asked him.

Red flag #2.

This isn’t the sort of behavior you want in a husband. It’s not harmless fun. He’s using pornography, he’s going to bars focused on sexual exploitation, and he’s lying about it. Three strikes, you are out. He’s not husband material as he currently stands.

And, past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. Only marry him if you are OK with someone who thinks pornography is OK, Hooters is OK, sneaking around and lying are OK. That’s who you are marrying. Not a man who fell, knows it’s wrong, and is committed to doing better. Rather, a man who thinks it’s not a big deal and is hiding it because he knows YOU think it’s a big deal.

I feel like I’m answering my own question as this seems grounds for disaster.

Yep.

But then I’m reminded, 70% of Catholic men use pornography.

Not sure where this stat came from. But, either find one of the 30% OR look into the stat more because it’s likely those are not seriously practicing men. Doesn’t sound like yours is serious about practicing the faith either.

My husband does NOT use pornography. I don’t view pornography, either. We both strive for holiness.

He is a spiritual man, and very well formed in the Faith and TOB. He is also my best friend.

But not husband material as it stands.

He seems somewhat apologetic but could not come out and say he would never use it again.

Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. And what he’s telling you right here is the behavior will continue.

I don’t really know how to process this.

Put your plans on hold.

He needs to own that he DOES have a problem with pornography because he keeps going back to it. He needs to make a firm amendment of purpose. He needs to be accountable to you through software such as Covenant eyes. He needs to be WILLING to be transparent, open, and have his online activity monitored. He needs to be WILLING to NOT go to places like Hooters again.

The bigger deal is the lying and thinking you won’t find out. He’s broken trust, and that takes a LOT of time to rebuild.

 

[AdamP88]

@1ke has articulated what I’ve also been trying to say. He may be husband material one day, but right now he’s not.

Porn is a big deal. It’s not good for marriage. There are definitely Catholic men who never use it. I’m one of them.

The person you’re marrying is the person as they are now…there’s no guarantee they will ever change.

 

[MNathaniel]

there’s a difference between stumbling with chastity and viewing porn. A guy can have a moment of weakness and masturbate, and be sorry etc. But porn requires you to actually go to the effort of looking something up on a phone/computer and taking the time to do that and then masturbate. It’s kind of like having sex with someone else in that respect, as there’s all this time where you have the opportunity to say “no” to something increasingly serious but you keep deciding not to.
I don’t expect a man to promise to be perfect, but I think it’s reasonable to expect someone to promise never to view porn, and I think that it’s possible to keep that promise.

This.

There seems such a big difference between just ‘stumbling’ with regards to intrusive thoughts and fantasies that emerge in one’s own mind unbidden…

And actively going to the computer, searching up something specific, choosing which externally produced fantasy you’re going to ask to be fed, and then watching.

And being unable to say he’ll even try to stop.

I feel uncomfortable commenting because I recognize how significant the implications are for the OP (I can only imagine the possible emotional impact and complications of trying to consider whether this should shift her plans).

But honestly, I don’t see how porn use is something any woman should be advised to just… expect.

Stumbling, sure. Perhaps with regards to internal intrusive fantasies. But with regards to physically going to a computer and actively seeking something out? Really?

That part is what makes it sound like an addiction to me. To expect to not be able to stop oneself from physically walking across the room, turning on the computer, navigating to specific locations, and selecting and requesting specific fantasies. Those are all concrete, physical actions. To not be able to simply not do them strikes me as concerning.

 

[AdamP88]

I feel uncomfortable commenting because I recognize how significant the implications are for the OP (I can only imagine the possible emotional impact and complications of trying to consider whether this should shift her plans).

Yeah. I share this feeling. It might be easy for us to just say “you should reconsider” but it’s a massive deal for the OP. I really do sympathise with her situation. But it’s better to bite the bullet now than suffer through these issues in marriage.

 

[Maximian]

Yes that’s perfectly true.

 

[redcatholic]

I didn’t say guarantee a sinless future, I said don’t look at porn. The couple is discerning marriage. He said he looks at porn once a month and it’s not a big deal. Ok so stop. Thats what she should expect from her future spouse. According to Jesus it’s adultery. Period. And there isn’t an excuse of addiction if it’s once a month. So yes, he should promise to be faithful to her. Kinda like marriage…

 

[redcatholic]

If the OP was my daughter my advice would be the same.

 

[goout]

The bigger deal is the lying and thinking you won’t find out. He’s broken trust, and that takes a LOT of time to rebuild.

This is the main issue in the relationship. There are many opportunities in life to either work together honestly, or hide and deny. Hiding and denying are bad news for a marriage.

 

[redcatholic]

Ok then he needs to fix the addiction before the marriage.
Shocked at the tolerance for porn on here.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Shocked at the tolerance for porn on here.

No one has even suggested tolerance for porn. There isn’t a single post in the thread along the lines of “porn is fine, don’t worry about it.” What are you talking about?

 

[ruizmorelos]

So… I understand that it’s a difficult situation. We all struggle with sin, but porn is specially harmfull to our hability to love… and that’s what marriage (and life) is about. The first thing I would say, is maybe don’t be so hard on him, as men struggling with that, we experience sometimes a lot of shame about it. The second thing would be talking and being open about it, because if you are engaged, it’s not HIS problem anymore, but a BOTH of you problem, so he will need to hear from you that maybe even once a month IS a big deal. Finally, do something concrete about it: make a plan, go to counseling and/or spritual direction (together if necessary), try strive21, find a support grup or whatever.
I will be praying for you.

 

[AdamP88]

because if you are engaged, it’s not HIS problem anymore, but a BOTH of you problem

I don’t really agree. If she was married it would be a problem for the marriage. But in no way is this a “both of you” problem. She’s engaged, so she still can decide not to proceed. It’s up to this guy to man up and tackle this issue. I get that it causes shame etc. But sometimes tough love is better than tiptoeing around the issue, and perhaps if he thinks that his porn problem could be the cause of losing something like an important relationship, it will motivate him to stop. If he’s any way mature he will be able to see how this could affect his future marriage.

It’s also not only about how he feels, but how his actions impact on his wife’s feelings.

 

[AdamP88]

I had a discussion with my wife about this topic last night and she had the same reaction as @1ke

If he’s using porn on a regular basis and seems reluctant to stop…don’t marry him.

 

[Psalm30]

I was out of town, and it’s not the first time he’s lied or made light of things I’ve asked him.

Honestly, I think this is a bigger issue. If he lies to you about things you ask him, there are going to be trust issues. Porn is bad, but the fact that he’s lying means he’s untrustworthy in general, in ways not limited to porn use and infidelity.

 

[AdamP88]

I was out of town, and it’s not the first time he’s lied or made light of things I’ve asked him

I actually missed this bit. This kind of indicates a sneaky or deceptive streak. I would be more than a little worried by all these things put together.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

The Hooter’s bit I wouldn’t personally stress about but maybe I’m just ignorant. But seems to me like a mostly hokey place, not actually titillating. I’m not a man though

We used to frequent Hooters when I was a young USAF officer. We claimed to love their wings. Trust me, the wings are good. But they aren’t THAT good. All dudes go their to minor titillation, if they are honest.

A often shudder at the things I used to gloss over as a Catholic man.

 

[ruizmorelos]

Yeah, I get it… I don’t mean to suggest ridding him of his responsability about his moral life and pursuit of holyness. My point is that although they’re not married, they’re in a relationship; In that sense they both have a share in trying to figure it out (to love is to care)… and certanly I agree it’s not something to tiptoe about… but discussing (with your partner, preferbly). True they can choose to break up, but in the meantime, I do think is a good thing to share it as a couple’s problem (she’s also affected by it, according to her post), specially since loneliness and feeling judjed incresaes the risk of falling again itno porn. And by the way… talking about it IS doing something, not everything… but certanly a start.