Marriage prep

[gmarie21]

We all know from the extensive amounts of posts, the length and process of petitioning a tribunal to decide on whether or not a marriage is valid. I’m just curious, will the Church (or at least diocese) decide to lengthen the marriage prep process to a similar length of the annulment process. There seems to be more energy and focus on checking the validity of a civilly disolved marriage than on making sure one does not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with. Is there anyone else here who wonders the same thing?

 

[Phemie]

We all know from the extensive amounts of posts, the length and process of petitioning a tribunal to decide on whether or not a marriage is valid. I’m just curious, will the Church (or at least diocese) decide to lengthen the marriage prep process to a similar length of the annulment process. There seems to be more energy and focus on checking the validity of a civilly disolved marriage than on making sure one does not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with. Is there anyone else here who wonders the same thing?

Several years ago, when I was taking courses in liturgy, we were told that the Rite of Marriage was in the process of being revamped and that there was serious talk about having something along the lines of the catechumenate for those who were preparing to marry. The Order of the Engaged was what the professor called it.

Haven’t heard anything since but then the wheels of Rome move slowly.

 

[bilop]

We all know from the extensive amounts of posts, the length and process of petitioning a tribunal to decide on whether or not a marriage is valid. I’m just curious, will the Church (or at least diocese) decide to lengthen the marriage prep process to a similar length of the annulment process. There seems to be more energy and focus on checking the validity of a civilly disolved marriage than on making sure one does not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with. Is there anyone else here who wonders the same thing?

I think you would want to tread carefully, and avoid making marriage prep too burdensome.

For many people, marriage is a gateway back into the Church.
The devout will go through whatever process the Church sets up; the lukewarm may be driven away by an onerous process and not even have a Church wedding. This could be especially true if one of the partners, or the parents, are advocating against a reluctant party.

We don’t want marriage prep to drive people away from the Church. The lukewarm are the most in need of the graces of the Sacrament.

God Bless

 

[gmarie21]

I think you would want to tread carefully, and avoid making marriage prep too burdensome.

For many people, marriage is a gateway back into the Church.
The devout will go through whatever process the Church sets up; the lukewarm may be driven away by an onerous process and not even have a Church wedding. This could be especially true if one of the partners, or the parents, are advocating against a reluctant party.

We don’t want marriage prep to drive people away from the Church. The lukewarm are the most in need of the graces of the Sacrament.

God Bless

The part in bold, wouldn’t this, down the road, be seen as not entering a marriage validly if one party is even reluctant to marry in the Church?

 

[rwoehmke]

This was supposed to have been the reason fot the mandatory wait of six months between contacting the priest and the wedding. Some form of retreat for the engaged couple is usually required as well as personality testing. The rationale was to cut down on “getting the hots” and rushing into an ill advised marriage. While divorce is rife, it may have been even worse without this action by the Bishops.

 

[bilop]

The part in bold, wouldn’t this, down the road, be seen as not entering a marriage validly if one party is even reluctant to marry in the Church?

No, I don’t think so.

Many a party is persuaded to marry in the Church (rather than marry elsewhere) by a spouse or parent. As long as Catholic marriage is fully explained to them, and they consent, the marriage should be valid. Persuasion, “I won’t marry you outside the Church”, is not coercion.

God Bless

 

[puzzleannie]

We There seems to be more energy and focus on checking the validity of a civilly disolved marriage than on making sure one does not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with. Is there anyone else here who wonders the same thing?

what I wonder is why the same people who complain about the undue number of annulments, at least on these boards, are the same ones who complain about “jumping thru hoops” for marriage prep, tough requirements, investigations with witnesses into the couples freedom and disposition for marriage etc.

 

[tee_eff_em]

How long would you say is long enough?

What would happen during this lengthened period? Instruction (in what and by whom?)? Investigation (ditto?)? Something else?

tee

 

[gmarie21]

How long would you say is long enough?

What would happen during this lengthened period? Instruction (in what and by whom?)? Investigation (ditto?)? Something else?

tee

I’m not saying two to three years as is the case for annulments that are not due to lack of form, but something that requires more detail and is consistent throughout the Church (not different requirements for different diocese). Also, all those things that are required for a valid marriage should seriously be looked into by both the couple and the parish priest and/or deacon and not just covered in a weekend retreat once during the whole engagement process. Maybe even have testimony from those who will be witnessing the marriage (the one’s who usually are the witnesses in annulments are usually the same people who pointed out the red flags before the marriage and were ignored by the couple who were wearing rose colored glasses). Also, maybe there should be a rule that if a priest truly believes that the couple should not marry because one of the parties would not be entering validly that he should refuse to marry the couple. I would be curious to see how many priests weren’t surprised by the divorce of some of the couples they married.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I’m just curious, will the Church (or at least diocese) decide to

lengthen the marriage prep process to a similar length of the annulment process.

I'm not saying two to three years as is the case for annulments that are not due to lack of form, but something that requires more detail and is consistent throughout the Church

(not different requirements for different diocese).

It is really hard to tell what you have in mind?

Also, all those things that are required for a valid marriage should seriously be looked into by both the couple and the parish priest and/or deacon and not just covered in a weekend retreat once during the whole engagement process. Maybe even have testimony from those who will be witnessing the marriage (the one’s who usually are the witnesses in annulments are usually the same people who pointed out the red flags before the marriage and were ignored by the couple who were wearing rose colored glasses).

While we “all know” that “too many annulments” are pursued (in the US) today, *purely on a guess *I would estimate that there are at least an order of magnitude more marriages sought than annulments sought each year. Where are the priests and/or deacons – who do not have the time to administer the sacraments to the faithful now – going to come up with the time to devote to such investigations?

Also, maybe there should be a rule that if a priest truly believes that the couple should not marry because one of the parties would not be entering validly that he should refuse to marry the couple. I would be curious to see how many priests weren’t surprised by the divorce of some of the couples they married.

Something liike Canon 1066 perhaps? :twocents: I think you do a disservice to priests to posit that they routinely and knowingly ignore this duty.

tee

 

[gmarie21]

Something liike Canon 1066 perhaps? :twocents: I think you do a disservice to priests to posit that they routinely and knowingly ignore this duty.

tee

Oh, I don’t think all priests ignore relationships that should not enter into marriage, but if so many are entering invalidly, there needs to be better guidelines (or maybe more consistent) to “weed” out most of those relationships that would be invalid if marriage was entered. It just seems that many complain about the number of annulments, never looking at the failings of marriage prep in some parishes and/or diocese.

 

[1ke]

It just seems that many complain about the number of annulments, never looking at the failings of marriage prep in some parishes and/or diocese.

There are a lot of people who “complain” about the number of decrees of nullity without any real facts to back them up.

In most US diocese a **large **number of petitions are **NOT **from Catholics. They are from divorced Protestants who are now seeking to marry a Catholic or become a Catholic throuh the RCIA process.

 

[joandarc2008]

Hello, I wish everyone had the type of marriage prep that my df and I have right now. We met several times with the deacon to get our paperwork for our lack of form nullities together ( I was not a practicing Catholic but my ex was; my df was married outside of the church due to a pregnancy ie “trying” to do the right thing at a very young age). After that we took the focus test. We are sitting with the deacon 2 on 1 and going through each question that there was any issue with and discussing it. We also are going to a retreat for couples that are remarrying. It is not just about what we do in the marriage prep but what we do with it when we get out of that appointment. We actually discuss and apply the things we have learned in order to better our relationship because we truly want this relationship and marriage to be blessed by God and to be a representation of His love for us. WE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO DO THE WORK. Our deacon has been married for many decades and our priest took a vow of celibacy. They don’t need to work on our relationship. WE DO. :newidea: uch:

One of God’s greatest gifts to us was the gift of free will. It was also the greatest curse at the same time. We need to express this free will and do the right thing and make the right choices and do the work and stop expecting others to do it for us.

God Bless

 

[sseason]

We all know from the extensive amounts of posts, the length and process of petitioning a tribunal to decide on whether or not a marriage is valid. I’m just curious, will the Church (or at least diocese) decide to lengthen the marriage prep process to a similar length of the annulment process. There seems to be more energy and focus on checking the validity of a civilly disolved marriage than on making sure one does not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with. Is there anyone else here who wonders the same thing?

I agree with you on the fact that there should be more energy on making sure two do not enter into a marriage invalidly to begin with.
However, I think the lenth of 6 months in sufficient. It’s what goes on during those 6 months and the quality of it.
(During my parents time, it was taught not to have a lengthy engagement so as not to fall into immoral temptation.)

There are several reasons many marriages happen that end up with reasons for annulment. One is that it depends on the parish the couple is in and the priest who marries them. They may happen to be in a luke warm parish with a luke warm priest who lets things slide or does not require them to go on retreats such as “engaged encounter”. A lot of the marriage prep is up to the priest (or the diocese, I’m not sure). I know that my parish requires a lot of marriage prep. And many require an Engaged Retreat.

The other thing is, I’m sure some couples who don’t practise their faith simply lie about certain issues because they want to marry in the Church. (who knows why, maybe to appease their families??)

All I know is, I want to do everything possible to make sure I enter into a marriage with God’s Blessing. It’s all in praying for His Will.

I do think you make a good point in questioning this. On our part, we can pray for good marriages and good Holy priests to marry them.

 

[Rach620]

How long would you say is long enough?

What would happen during this lengthened period? Instruction (in what and by whom?)? Investigation (ditto?)? Something else?

tee

I’m wondering this, too.

To me, it does not seem to be the length of time that is most important, but the quality of preparation. We were engaged for a year and a half, and I would say that most, if not all, of our prep was something we took the initiative to set up with priests, spiritual directors, NFP practitioners, etc. I’d say it was mostly inactive preparation, as far as the sacrament goes, on the part of the Church.

I’d rather put our energies into reinvigorating the marriage prep programs dioceses DO offer, so that the true, sacramental nature of marriage seems more appealing to those who are “going through the motions” of a church wedding. It could truly be a gateway back into a living faith for many.

Extending the period of time during which a couple must be engaged does not seem necessary/advisable to me. I simply don’t think that it would end up being worthwhile–most dioceses aren’t doing so well with utilizing the six months prep time they require now. I don’t think more time is going to make it better…

 

[Rach620]

While we “all know” that “too many annulments” are pursued (in the US) today, *purely on a guess *I would estimate that there are at least an order of magnitude more marriages sought than annulments sought each year. Where are the priests and/or deacons – who do not have the time to administer the sacraments to the faithful now – going to come up with the time to devote to such investigations?

Exactly. It’s a matter of the faithful, here, not the Church. Her resources are stretched thin in many areas, and a few months more of “preparation,” in whatever form, is not going to compensate for the years in which those presenting themselves for marriage were not properly formed in their faith.

What we really need to help ‘fix’ marriage prep these days, I think, are enthusiastic, loving, faithful, and yes, ‘cool’ married couples who can really express how they understand sacramental marriage to engaged couples. More hoops to jump through–not the answer. Making one of those steps along the path to marriage a little more surprising in the insights it offers–definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[deaconswife]

In the diocese I am in, the period of preparation for marriage is one year. It is a three stage process. In the first stage they meet with the priest or deacon. The second stage involves attending Pre-Cana or Engaged Encounter. In the last stage they meet with a married couple who works with them on the area of marriage that they should have discussed (finances, children, activities and interests, religion, etc) and come to some kind of understanding. In the time since the change has been made the divorce rate among Catholics in the diocese has decreased significantly It has not been an inconvenience to couples since it takes a year or more around here to get a venue for the reception.

 

[gmarie21]

In the diocese I am in, the period of preparation for marriage is one year. It is a three stage process. In the first stage they meet with the priest or deacon. The second stage involves attending Pre-Cana or Engaged Encounter. In the last stage they meet with a married couple who works with them on the area of marriage that they should have discussed (finances, children, activities and interests, religion, etc) and come to some kind of understanding. In the time since the change has been made the divorce rate among Catholics in the diocese has decreased significantly It has not been an inconvenience to couples since it takes a year or more around here to get a venue for the reception.

Now, That sounds like a GREAT program going on. Do you know why pre-cana qualifications are not universal and not like your diocese?

 

[deaconswife]

The bishop of the diocese sets the policy for marriage within his own diocese. We were blessed with a bishop who was very concerned with the state of marriages in his diocese and has done much to see that couples entering marriage have the tools to help them keep that lifelong commitment

 

[sseason]

My spiritual director suggested that me and the guy I’m seeing go on an Engaged Encounter now, before we’re even engaged. Because right now, with the differences in our beliefs (he is Catholic) I won’t even say yes to him. And the leader of the retreat highly suggested it also and is very excited for us to come. She said her daughter did the same thing. It is not completely uncommon to go through some of these things before you even say yes to an engagement.

We are going this weekend. So prayers would be greatly appreciated! I need direction of wether or not I’m even headed in the right direction.