Marriage Problems-any recommended reading?

[MaryWannaBe]

I’m a full time working mom of three (9,7,1) whose husband is a stay-at-home father. It has been 5 years since we made the decision for him to stay at home, and it’s been a struggle since day 1. I carry much more than 50% of the household duties AND work (plus we have a cleaning lady). Intimacy is dead. He has never had a job that could support us without me working. He’s not a “deadbeat dad”, he just needs constant direction from me on what needs to be done and depends on me to make all the significant decisions, discipline the children, handle the finances and spiritually lead the household.

As a child, his mother did everything for him and never equipped him with self-help skills. I think I’ve been guiltly of enabling this for the last 11 years of our marriage by doing everything. He is just really terrible with time management and running a household. However, at this point I can’t just “stop doing things” and let him suffer the consequences of doing it wrong because it often involves the children.

Our interaction these days generally consists of me yelling at him about something not being done around the house and him visibly ignoring me. We are arguing a lot and the children are starting to exhibit similar yelling patterns with each other.

We’re headed for counseling, but in the meantime, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on some good reading to get me started in the right direction…or if anyone has been in a similar stage of marriage and successfully pulled out of it.

If I weren’t Catholic, I probably would be filing for divorce.

 

[EasterJoy]

“Married to Distraction” by Melissa Orlov, Edward Hallowell, and Sue Hallowell might help with some strategies with a spouse who is bad at self-direction and sticking with routine chores. You don’t have to have ADD in order to have poor self-direction skills. Your husband might also find some hep in “Sidetracked Home Executives: From Pigpen to Paradise” by Pam Young, Peggy Jones, or the FlyLady book, “Sink Reflections,” by Marla Cilley. Basically, they are different methods of self-direction at housekeeping for the organizationally challenged. They have a bit different focus in terms of the starting tendencies of the disorganized person. If he can learn to self-direct instead of having you do it, I think it will help him a lot. These are books that can very often be found in public libraries, saving money on that “test drive”.

That is if he is bad at managing time rather than just doesn’t like to work. If he just doesn’t like to work, you can hope that the experience of accomplishment might awaken that, though. Getting things done does feel good, after all! God puts that taste for virtue into us.

 

[SonSearcher]

I’m a full time working mom of three (9,7,1) whose husband is a stay-at-home father. It has been 5 years since we made the decision for him to stay at home, and it’s been a struggle since day 1. I carry much more than 50% of the household duties AND work (plus we have a cleaning lady). Intimacy is dead. He has never had a job that could support us without me working. He’s not a “deadbeat dad”, he just needs constant direction from me on what needs to be done and depends on me to make all the significant decisions, discipline the children, handle the finances and spiritually lead the household.

As a child, his mother did everything for him and never equipped him with self-help skills. I think I’ve been guiltly of enabling this for the last 11 years of our marriage by doing everything. He is just really terrible with time management and running a household. However, at this point I can’t just “stop doing things” and let him suffer the consequences of doing it wrong because it often involves the children.

Our interaction these days generally consists of me yelling at him about something not being done around the house and him visibly ignoring me. We are arguing a lot and the children are starting to exhibit similar yelling patterns with each other.

We’re headed for counseling, but in the meantime, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on some good reading to get me started in the right direction…or if anyone has been in a similar stage of marriage and successfully pulled out of it.

If I weren’t Catholic, I probably would be filing for divorce.

Sacred Marriage - Gary Thomas. Very good book, tag-line : What if God wants to make you Holy not Happy.

Not a Catholic book, but even folks with what they would consider good marriages would get something from it.

 

[Rainaldo]

You wrote, “As a child, his mother did everything for him and never equipped him with self-help skills”.

So, sadly, you knew all of this about him but still you chose him to be your husband-for-life, and to be the father of your children.

Mary, it is unfair of you to suddenly decide, after three kids and eleven years of marriage, that you now have a problem with the way he is. And it’s unfair of you to want to change him into someone he is not, and someone he never was, and someone he obviously has no intentions of becoming.

So the only thing you can do now, Mary, is to just accept your situation for what it is.

My prayers are with you, but most of all, with your children who are growing up in an environment where Mom is constantly dissatisfied with Dad’s performance as a husband, his performance as a father, and his performance as a man. Time will tell just what kind of effect it will have on them, on their future relationships, and even their future marriages.

 

[tigsfneb]

My heart pours out for you and the pain your entire family is feeling. Start counseling, pray to our Lady, and Joseph for intercessions, and DO NOT Give up on your husband.

 

[chris138]

If you haven’t seen Fireproof(movie with Kirk Cameron) , I suggest you watch it together, it might be a starting point to talking.

There’s a book called “The Power of the Praying Wife” it is not catholic, and I have not read it, but I did enjoy “The Power of the Praying Parent” by the same author.

Maybe he should get a job, maybe it will make him feel better about himself. I know that there are some families where this does actually work(stay-at-home dad), but the few I know are more in your boat.

There are groups on the boards here for those struggling in their marriages. They may have some idea as well as support you through this.

Praying for your family…

 

[MaryWannaBe]

You wrote, “As a child, his mother did everything for him and never equipped him with self-help skills”.

So, sadly, you knew all of this about him but still you chose him to be your husband-for-life, and to be the father of your children.

Mary, it is unfair of you to suddenly decide, after three kids and eleven years of marriage, that you now have a problem with the way he is. And it’s unfair of you to want to change him into someone he is not, and someone he never was, and someone he obviously has no intentions of becoming.

So the only thing you can do now, Mary, is to just accept your situation for what it is.

My prayers are with you, but most of all, with your children who are growing up in an environment where Mom is constantly dissatisfied with Dad’s performance as a husband, his performance as a father, and his performance as a man. Time will tell just what kind of effect it will have on them, on their future relationships, and even their future marriages.

I find your perspective interesting. While some of what you say regarding my knowledge of his lack of self-help skills is painfully true, is it possible that some of the responsibility regarding the children’s current and future relationships lies with him? As a Catholic Father is he not equally accountable for providing spiritual leadership and ensuring the well-being and support of their mother, particularly in a scenario where he is not providing the financial support? Is there no point at which a wife is supposed to/allowed to confront a spouse who is taking advantage of her?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am sorry that you are going through this. I think that counseling may help you.

Have you ever considered that you are showing your husband that you don’t need him for anything at all? You just told us that he’s no good at keeping house (what man is?), he can’t keep a job, can’t support his family, you have to do it all. Well, men need to be needed and respected. What does he have that you respect? It seems, nothing. What does he do that he can be proud of? Men need to be proud of themselves in the world. They need quests, adventures, heroism. You have reversed the roles and now both of you are miserable.

As it stands, you sound as if he adds nothing to your life. I find that very very sad. I hope you can see your husband as your hero at some point. I hope counseling helps you both.

p.s. If you’ve been doing something for 5 years, and it isn’t working, obviously something is wrong. As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results…Time do do something different! Tell your husband that you have faith in him and that you will do everything you can to support him in finding paid employment! And then do that!

 

[styrgwillidar]

Our interaction these days generally consists of me yelling at him about something not being done around the house and him visibly ignoring me. We are arguing a lot and the children are starting to exhibit similar yelling patterns with each other.

Ok, did this start with you yelling at him when he did something because— It wasn’t the way you would have done it?

Guess what, typical guy reaction is: you don’t like the way I do things. Fine. I won’t. Best way to demoralize them and ensure they won’t make any effort. Why should they, given the choice between putting in a lot of effort to get something done and being yelled at, and making no effort and getting yelled at. Well, why waste effort just to arrive at the same spot? If you’ll be yelled at for doing the dishes wrong, well, might as well not do them.

You set up a situation with him as the stay at home father. Your choice in life. Let him run the house. Even if it’s different than the way you would do it, even if he’s making choices other than the way you would. Lay out the broad goals, let him fulfill them. Patton said it along the lines of, I never tell people how to do something, I tell them what I want done, and they never fail to amaze me with the results.

Give him his mission. Back off and let him do it. Praise for what goes well. Let him skin the cat his way.

My ex was the stay-at-home Mom, I didn’t consider her to be there for the housework, she was home for the kids. I never minded pitching in cleaning toilets, or vacuuming so we could get a little more time together. She wasn’t a stay at home maid, or cook. I just wanted the kids well cared for, play time with Mom, getting read to by Mom, getting to go the park with Mom, help with their homework. Have the kids knowing there was someone who was going to pick them up from school, help out at their school, be there when they got out of school or when they were home sick.

 

[Iheartcoffee]

There are some good marriage retreats offered through most dioceses. Those might be a good way to begin communicating about these kinds of issues.

 

[Bklynguy]

I’m a full time working mom of three (9,7,1) whose husband is a stay-at-home father. It has been 5 years since we made the decision for him to stay at home, and it’s been a struggle since day 1. I carry much more than 50% of the household duties AND work (plus we have a cleaning lady). Intimacy is dead. He has never had a job that could support us without me working. He’s not a “deadbeat dad”, he just needs constant direction from me on what needs to be done and depends on me to make all the significant decisions, discipline the children, handle the finances and spiritually lead the household.

As a child, his mother did everything for him and never equipped him with self-help skills. I think I’ve been guiltly of enabling this for the last 11 years of our marriage by doing everything. He is just really terrible with time management and running a household. However, at this point I can’t just “stop doing things” and let him suffer the consequences of doing it wrong because it often involves the children.

Our interaction these days generally consists of me yelling at him about something not being done around the house and him visibly ignoring me. We are arguing a lot and the children are starting to exhibit similar yelling patterns with each other.

We’re headed for counseling, but in the meantime, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on some good reading to get me started in the right direction…or if anyone has been in a similar stage of marriage and successfully pulled out of it.

If I weren’t Catholic, I probably would be filing for divorce.

Oh boy–this sort of reminds me of my post the other day, only the reverse. I am the husband and my wife is the stay at home mom and I do well over 50% of the housework (probably close to 75%) in addition to supporting the family. I wish I had good advice–we have gone through periods of me yelling at her because something wasn’t done.

One thing that has marginally helped my wife–though she frequently falls off the wagon, so it has to be continually encouraged and which someone in my post reminded me of–is flylady.net. It provides techniques for how to take housekeeping in small bites without becoming overwhelmed.

While I wouldn’t necessarily say intimacy is dead, it has waned and has taken a toll.

Regardless of the fact of whether or not he is the man and may not be “good” at housework, you are the sole income earner and he stays home to take care of the kids. Within reason and with some exceptions, anything pertaining to the home, he should be handling. Men can keep house, because I have–so that’s a copout. If that is not his default position, he’s got to adjust and learn. That’s life. I particularly don’t like getting up at 6AM everyday to make a living, but I have to do it—oh, one of the greatest lessons of life–the things you have to do that you don’t like in order to survive.

 

[Bklynguy]

You set up a situation with him as the stay at home father. Your choice in life. Let him run the house. Even if it’s different than the way you would do it, even if he’s making choices other than the way you would. Lay out the broad goals, let him fulfill them. Patton said it along the lines of, I never tell people how to do something, I tell them what I want done, and they never fail to amaze me with the results.

I am going to respectfully disagree. And I don’t think she said she was yelling at him because something wasn’t done the way she wanted it done–she was yelling at him because stuff wasn’t done in the first place.

Even if she yelled at him ocassionally because something wasn’t done the way she wanted it done–while she does have to be flexible and reasonable–I’m still going to go out on the limb and say something controversial. I am saying this as a man, which proves I’m not a chauvinist because this situation is reverse with the woman as the breadwinner and the man as the stay at home. This remark is going to spark ire with men and women on the board, but here it goes…

She brings home the paycheck, which means she is, in effect, the boss. And I don’t mean the boss as in she is better than him or that he is not her equal or not worth as much as her–none of that. But, as the breadwinner, she has a right to set certain expectations and is accorded a certain amount of respect. Maybe I’m too old fashioned in that regard, but I really do believe it. And how is that respect given to her? She brings home the paycheck to support him and the kids, and he takes care of the kids and makes a nice home. This is what has built good societies for generations. And when one isn’t holding up his/her end of the bargain, havoc ensues.

 

[styrgwillidar]

She brings home the paycheck, which means she is, in effect, the boss. And I don’t mean the boss as in she is better than him or that he is not her equal or not worth as much as her–none of that. But, as the breadwinner, she has a right to set certain expectations and is accorded a certain amount of respect. Maybe I’m too old fashioned in that regard, but I really do believe it. And how is that respect given to her? She brings home the paycheck to support him and the kids, and he takes care of the kids and makes a nice home. This is what has built good societies for generations. And when one isn’t holding up his/her end of the bargain, havoc ensues.

Now it’s my turn to respectfully disagree. Marriage is supposed to be a team, which means both roles are due respect. Taking care of a household isn’t easy. I never thought I was the boss or had more say in the household because I happened to earn the money. WE had decided that WE wanted someone to stay home with the kids. By definition, that meant that person wasn’t going to be out earning a paycheck, in my case the wife. She did something far more important- again, being there for the kids not the housework. I was blessed in that I could make enough money for her to stay home. I was also blessed with a wife who understood the difference between wants and needs and was able to prioritize the funds on needs first.

But I do have some experience in leadership and I have noticed that when a person not doing a job is trying to order around the one doing it about the details which are based on preferences vice well thought out reasons, resentment and shutdown can follow. More typical with guys than women. The surest way I have found to destroy initiative in the folks who work for me is to micro-manage them, for example over-edit reports. Take a report that adequately communicates what it needs to and change it just because I would have worded it differently. They stop taking ownership of a project when they get the feeling the boss is just going to come in and change it all up anyway. have seen the- if you think you can do it better than go ahead!!

I have no idea if there’s any of that behind the history of the OP. I thought I would provide a possibly slightly different perspective than what she may have considered.

 

[Bklynguy]

. The surest way I have found to destroy initiative in the folks who work for me is to micro-manage them, for example over-edit reports. Take a report that adequately communicates what it needs to and change it just because I would have worded it differently. They stop taking ownership of a project when they get the feeling the boss is just going to come in and change it all up anyway. have seen the- if you think you can do it better than go ahead!!

Well, I do agree on the micro-manage part. When I said setting expectations, I was talking more big picture stuff: dishes should be done, the rug should be vacuumed, beds made, etc. Very basic stuff, not, “Well, when you make the beds, I want them done by such and such time and to bounce a quarter off the bed.” Or, “I want you to do the vacuuming on Mondays and Thursdays instead of Tuesdays and Fridays.” And, “When you dust, use lemon pledge instead of pine.” However, if he is saying, “Well, it really doesn’t bother me if the rug is hardly ever vacuumed, so I’m just going to do it when I get around to it, say once every 7-10 days or so.” Or, “What’s the big deal if I run the dishwasher at night and then leave it to be emptied by you when you get home from work the next day?” That’s unnacceptable, I think. In the present, she doesn’t have this choice when it comes to her work—if she doesn’t go and/or does a poor job, they don’t eat and can’t pay their mortgage or rent.

 

[MaryWannaBe]

It’s likely a little of both micro managing (me) and not doing big picture items (him). For example, he never trims the little ones nails (big picture) and he regularly puts laundry away in the wrong persons closets (micro managing).

One concept that I always come back to is that if I don’t do something properly at work, and therefore my co-workers have to pick up the slack, I would expect them to be upset with me. For him, he doesn’t do his job properly, I have to pick up the slack, and therefore why is it unreasonable for me to be upset?

I believe there is plenty of blame on both sides of my situation: his in what he is not doing and mine in my reaction. I make no excuses for the yelling, it is wrong. What I’m searching for is how to motive him to do the right thing. What hurts is that his wife being overwhelmed and overworked isn’t enough motivation for him.

 

[Cashew]

Just responding to the OPs request for books, I just posted this in another thread and thought I’d share it here.​

If I could offer two book suggestions, I know they’ve really had an impact on how my wife and I view our marriage:

The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It’s a very quick read, but basically it says that every person experiences love through some combination of acts of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, gifts, and physical touch. And to make people feel loved, you have to learn their language (even if its different from yours). It’s been very powerful in rethinking my own approach to my marriage.

amazon.com/The-Love-Langu…1654350&sr=8-1

For Better Forever: A Catholic Guide to Lifelong Marriage by Greg Popcak has been a big eye opener as well. It’s much more broad than the Chapman book, but really lets you look at your marriage from a Christian perspective and from a psychological perspective of how exceptional marriages work. He also has a radio show on Ave Marie Radio called More2Life, which you can listen in on at 12 pm eastern at avemariaradio.net.

amazon.com/For-Better-For…1654489&sr=1-1

 

[Bklynguy]

It’s likely a little of both micro managing (me) and not doing big picture items (him). For example, he never trims the little ones nails (big picture) and he regularly puts laundry away in the wrong persons closets (micro managing).

One concept that I always come back to is that if I don’t do something properly at work, and therefore my co-workers have to pick up the slack, I would expect them to be upset with me. For him, he doesn’t do his job properly, I have to pick up the slack, and therefore why is it unreasonable for me to be upset?

I believe there is plenty of blame on both sides of my situation: his in what he is not doing and mine in my reaction. I make no excuses for the yelling, it is wrong. What I’m searching for is how to motive him to do the right thing. What hurts is that his wife being overwhelmed and overworked isn’t enough motivation for him.

It is not unreasonable at all to be upset if he doesn’t do his job properly. However, you may want to let things slide for items like putting the laundry away in the wrong person’s closet. If he is at least doing laundry and getting it folded, that is a big plus. Is it possible, for the older children, to hang the laundry on the outside of their closet–or, for that matter, bedroom door–and allow them to put it away?

 

[Rainaldo]

I find your perspective interesting. While some of what you say regarding my knowledge of his lack of self-help skills is painfully true, is it possible that some of the responsibility regarding the children’s current and future relationships lies with him? As a Catholic Father is he not equally accountable for providing spiritual leadership and ensuring the well-being and support of their mother, particularly in a scenario where he is not providing the financial support? Is there no point at which a wife is supposed to/allowed to confront a spouse who is taking advantage of her?

Sure, some of the responsibility regarding your children’s current and future relationships lies with him, but you are doing the best you can to assign as much blame to him as possible while ignoring the fact that you created this situation in the first place.

 

[1inICXC]

I am sorry that you are going through this. I think that counseling may help you.

Have you ever considered that you are showing your husband that you don’t need him for anything at all? You just told us that he’s no good at keeping house (what man is?), he can’t keep a job, can’t support his family, you have to do it all. Well, men need to be needed and respected. What does he have that you respect? It seems, nothing. What does he do that he can be proud of? Men need to be proud of themselves in the world. They need quests, adventures, heroism. You have reversed the roles and now both of you are miserable.

As it stands, you sound as if he adds nothing to your life. I find that very very sad. I hope you can see your husband as your hero at some point. I hope counseling helps you both.

p.s. If you’ve been doing something for 5 years, and it isn’t working, obviously something is wrong. As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results…Time do do something different! Tell your husband that you have faith in him and that you will do everything you can to support him in finding paid employment! And then do that!

Exactly what TRJ said!! This is the core of your problem. I am surrounded by many women like you, in our culture this is common, and all I can say is that if you don’t flip things as they should be you are looking to a miserable future together and the children will be witnesses and victims of it all.

 

[nordskoven]

amenclinics.net/clinics/audit/

Here’s the Amen Clinic’s brain audit. It let’s one get a grasp of mental condition from a purely physiological standpoint. You have to see what you’re dealing with to be able to be constructive in rebuilding your marriage. So you’d both better take it. Even the issue of ADD is tricky as in one instance it may be underfiring; in another instance it is overfiring of the brain. Dr. Amen also recommends different nutritional treatment for different brain types. And he also shows which prescription drugs will treat the various brain types. Amen also asks us to clean up our act. If there is a moldy, musty home environment, hubby may be suffering from brain stem swelling and overall inflammation, including the brain. This may make it hard to be a self-starter. I would unplug all these potential physical factors that may be contributing to behavior that rationalizes brain function abnormalities.