Marriage Question

[Chiltepin]

I’ll try to keep this breif, but there is a lot of information involved.

2 years ago, I almost married a fellow Catholic after dating him all through college, only to become overwhelmed by a feeling of he is not the one. I am confident in that decision now. I look back on the relationship and know I would not have wanted to spend my life with him and we were not a good match.

I now have a boyfriend who is not Catholic. I never thought I would seriously consider someone who is not Catholic as a spouse, but I am feeling differently about that now.

Some of the facts:

1. He knows and understands that I would need to raise my children Catholic and that I would require his assistance.
2. He comes to Mass with me sometimes and knows that if we had a family he would need to come to Mass with us every week. (My grandaddy did just that for 50 years before converting to Catholicism)
3. Not only is he not Catholic, he is not a baptized Christian. Right now he is just nothing. Not atheist, not agnostic, just nothing.
4. He has an odd committment to the 10 commandments for someone who believes in nothing and has come to agree with me on issues such as abortion and in vitro fertilization since we started dating. At one point he felt compelled to pray a prayer of thanksgiving on his porch, though he is not sure who it was directed toward.

My first question involves marriage. I understand that to marry someone who is not a baptized Christian, the marriage would be valid but not sacremental. This makes me sad, but I understand. How could it be sacremental if both parties are not committed to Christ?

The main questions I have are, do you think we would face much difficulty in getting permission to marry? Would a wedding that involved a dispartiy of cult be allowed to be a nuptual mass or is that only for 2 Christians or 2 Catholics?
We are not currently engaged and I don’t forsee that happening in the coming months, we still have time in that regard. I really love him and we have a great relationship, but I don’t want to waste either of our time. It would make me very sad if a Wedding Mass were not an option. (not in the controlling bride wants her way upset, but in the Catholic girl having trouble imagining anything other than a wedding Mass way)

My current plan of action is to be the best example of a devout Catholic that I can be. Pray for his conversion and make sacrifices he does not see because sacrifice gives power to prayer. I cannot imagine why a conversion would not be God’s will.

I just really want him to be a baptized Christian. Part of it selfishly because I do want to marry him someday and I want my marriage to be a sacrement, and part of it because I know that if he is a believing Christian, over a lifetime with me, he would see the truth in Catholicism.

Ok that is it. I know conversions are not made to order. Am I being unreasonable to desire so strongly his conversion? I know it would sound that way to much of the world, but that is why I am asking you guys and not them. I have NEVER asked him to covert as that is not how geniune conversions work as far as I know. I try to be gentle but persistant. He understants that in order for us to work as a couple long term he will have to atleast understand Catholicism and has a lot he needs to learn.

Thank you so much for reading or even just skimming this. I appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[1ke]

You are not being unreasonable in your desire for his conversion-- we should desire every person’s conversion.

You are being unreasonable in your founding a marriage on the desire for his conversion. You are building up this little idea in your mind that if you get married and he goes to church it will turn out ok. He will be like grandaddy and convert one day. If he were just baptized then he would surely see the truth of Catholicism someday. Well, many people NEVER see the truth of Catholicism. Many people NEVER seek a relationship with God.

It’s a lonely marriage being married to someone who doesn’t share the core of who you are. It’s a serious undertaking, and I think it is spiritually perilous. I think you are pinning everything on hopes and wishes and not on facts. If you cannot accept that he may always be just as he is now, don’t marry him. He’s not a fixer up project.

Regarding permission to marry in disparity of cult-- generally it isn’t difficult in the US if you can show there is no danger to the practice of your faith or raising children Catholic.

Regarding a nuptial mass, no you would not have one if he is unbaptized. A marriage with an unbaptized person is the Marriage Rite only, not a Mass. You shouldn’t have a Mass in the situation of a baptized non-Catholic marrying a Catholic either.

These are things to discuss in detail with your priest when you begin preparing for marriage.

 

[Chiltepin]

It’s a lonely marriage being married to someone who doesn’t share the core of who you are. It’s a serious undertaking, and I think it is spiritually perilous. I think you are pinning everything on hopes and wishes and not on facts. If you cannot accept that he may always be just as he is now, don’t marry him. He’s not a fixer up project.

Regarding permission to marry in disparity of cult-- generally it isn’t difficult in the US if you can show there is no danger to the practice of your faith or raising children Catholic.

Regarding a nuptial mass, no you would not have one if he is unbaptized. A marriage with an unbaptized person is the Marriage Rite only, not a Mass. You shouldn’t have a Mass in the situation of a baptized non-Catholic marrying a Catholic either.

Thank you for the information on wedding Masses. These are things I definitely needed to know as I consider a future with him.

You’re probably right about the lonely marriage. Something in me really doesn’t want to accept that. I felt so lonely in my previous relationship with a Catholic, but that was not a marriage. I don’t know if I can be married to him without some kind of baptism. It is painful to be so in love with someone and worry about his soul like that.

 

[Jesus_123]

+The Holy Spirit guided St. Paul to consider and address this identical situation and answered it with great clarity and holy wisdom for God’s children . . .

The Holy :bible1: Bible
2 Corinthians 14-18

14 Be ye NOT unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Remember . . . the Catechism teaches . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
CATECHISM
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

Article 2 - THE TRANSMISSION OF DIVINE REVELATION

81
Sacred Scripture is the **speech of God **as it is put down in WRITING under the breath of theHoly Spirit.

**Article 3 - SACRED SCRIPTURE

104**
In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it NOT as human word, “but as what it really is, the Word of God.”

**In the sacred books,
**the Father who is in heaven ****
comes
lovingly

to meet his children,
and talks with them.

Link: usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.shtml

:bible1: “How precious also are **thy thoughts **unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand …” Psalms 139:17-18b​

:bible1: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.” Isaiah 55:8​

You have no idea . . . *at this point in your lives *. . . whether this man’s soul will turn to . . . or will turn away from God . . . when he is drawn to the foot of the Holy Cross of Jesus our Saviour . . . trust in the Lord and prayer for this man’s soul’s salvation is wonderful . . . but marrying outside of the Faith . . . and bringing potential children into that disparate union of profound differences in relationships with God. . . will without a doubt pose real difficulties . . . and possibly real tragedy may be what you are inviting into your life . . . *and the lives of any future children . . . * I love this quote from Mother Angelica’s wise elder Deacon Bill Steltemeir of the Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN) ministry . . .

“Holiness must be sought. We must be on fire with love for God. His zeal must energize our zeal and put it to work for His Kingdom, especially within our own souls. Our greatest enemy is the fight for holiness in our very self. Our own self-will is the most consistent enemy of all.” - Deacon Bill Steltemeir​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . guide and direct+​

 

[Norseman82]

I’ll try to keep this breif, but there is a lot of information involved.

2 years ago, I almost married a fellow Catholic after dating him all through college, only to become overwhelmed by a feeling of he is not the one. I am confident in that decision now. I look back on the relationship and know I would not have wanted to spend my life with him and we were not a good match.

I now have a boyfriend who is not Catholic. I never thought I would seriously consider someone who is not Catholic as a spouse, but I am feeling differently about that now.

Some of the facts:

1. He knows and understands that I would need to raise my children Catholic and that I would require his assistance.
2. He comes to Mass with me sometimes and knows that if we had a family he would need to come to Mass with us every week. (My grandaddy did just that for 50 years before converting to Catholicism)
3. Not only is he not Catholic, he is not a baptized Christian. Right now he is just nothing. Not atheist, not agnostic, just nothing.
4. He has an odd committment to the 10 commandments for someone who believes in nothing and has come to agree with me on issues such as abortion and in vitro fertilization since we started dating. At one point he felt compelled to pray a prayer of thanksgiving on his porch, though he is not sure who it was directed toward.

My first question involves marriage. I understand that to marry someone who is not a baptized Christian, the marriage would be valid but not sacremental. This makes me sad, but I understand. How could it be sacremental if both parties are not committed to Christ?

The main questions I have are, do you think we would face much difficulty in getting permission to marry? Would a wedding that involved a dispartiy of cult be allowed to be a nuptual mass or is that only for 2 Christians or 2 Catholics?
We are not currently engaged and I don’t forsee that happening in the coming months, we still have time in that regard. I really love him and we have a great relationship, but I don’t want to waste either of our time. It would make me very sad if a Wedding Mass were not an option. (not in the controlling bride wants her way upset, but in the Catholic girl having trouble imagining anything other than a wedding Mass way)

My current plan of action is to be the best example of a devout Catholic that I can be. Pray for his conversion and make sacrifices he does not see because sacrifice gives power to prayer. I cannot imagine why a conversion would not be God’s will.

I just really want him to be a baptized Christian. Part of it selfishly because I do want to marry him someday and I want my marriage to be a sacrement, and part of it because I know that if he is a believing Christian, over a lifetime with me, he would see the truth in Catholicism.

Ok that is it. I know conversions are not made to order. Am I being unreasonable to desire so strongly his conversion? I know it would sound that way to much of the world, but that is why I am asking you guys and not them. I have NEVER asked him to covert as that is not how geniune conversions work as far as I know. I try to be gentle but persistant. He understants that in order for us to work as a couple long term he will have to atleast understand Catholicism and has a lot he needs to learn.

Thank you so much for reading or even just skimming this. I appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

My first question I have is this: what does the non-Catholic guy have that the Catholic guy does not?

In addition, the old Baltimore Catechism was skeptical about converting to the failth just to marry a Catholic. Please see Q1043:

gutenberg.org/files/14553/14553.txt

However, you should talk to a priest first, about your chances of a dispensation (you may also get counseling as to whether this is is a good guy for you) as very few of us here are canon lawyers or diocesan officials.

 

[kage_ar]

It is NOT selfish to want to spend your life with a man who shares your faith.

Pray hard, you may be choosing a very very lonely road.

 

[Chiltepin]

My first question I have is this: what does the non-Catholic guy have that the Catholic guy does not?.

I can draw up a comparison between the two. The issues are obviously not explaining why a non-Catholic is better than a Catholic, but why this Non-Catholic is better for me than that Catholic was.

Catholic Ex: pessamistic outlook on life, mother strongly disliked me (she did that to everyone he dated not just me), sometimes made others uncomfortable because of a lack of social skills to the extent that we avoided social situations, did not treat me like an intelligent person, was really bothered that I made more money than him and brought it up all the time, argued with me about Catholicism all the time based on his personal opinions and was too stubborn to look things up

** obviously he had some likeable qualities that resulted in my dating him in the first place, but by the end of that relationship they were harder and harder to see.

Current Boyfriend: positive person, his parents like me, my parents like him, he appreciates my talents and my interests and is supportive, respects my intelligence, sometimes cooks for me, opens doors(southern gentleman type), funny, intelligent, willing to help people with just about anything, always enjoyable to talk to, willing to try a lot of new things, keeps his place really clean

** like the ex, current boyfriend also has his faults, but the only thing about him right now that makes me uneasy about the future is the religious difference

In addition, the old Baltimore Catechism was skeptical about converting to the failth just to marry a Catholic. Please see Q1043:

gutenberg.org/files/14553/14553.txt

However, you should talk to a priest first, about your chances of a dispensation (you may also get counseling as to whether this is is a good guy for you) as very few of us here are canon lawyers or diocesan officials.

I wouldn’t want him to convert just to marry me. I would worry about the sincerity of the conversion. Not only that but he wouldn’t convert if he were not sincere. He will do a lot that is asked of him, but being untruthful isn’t one of them.

I want him to convert because that is what I want for everyone and because I want to marry him, but I don’t want him to convert just to marry me. Listening to myself I don’t think I make a lot of sense.

 

[sixofseven]

I married a non-baptized ‘christian’. He was raised in a very Chrisitan home but he just hasn’t been baptised himself yet, he wants to but is still praying about it - I always quote Paul to him "What are you waiting for?, Rise and be baptised!’

I too dated a Catholic before I met hubby. He was lovely but totally lukewarm, probably even cold in his faith…and he turned out to be a bit of a doosh.

We didn’t have a Nuptial Mass only because the Eucharist is something hubby really struggles with. As our priest said, there is nothing greater for your marriage that the gift of Christ in the Eucharist, but it’s also important to be loving to your partner. I stuggled with this because I really wanted a Mass (in the Catholic way, not the bridezilla way) and look, we’re still married, our marriage is valid in the eyes of God and the Church so it’s ok. If and when hubby gets baptised, our marriage will be sacramental.

You can have a Nuptial Mass but it would obviously only be you and other Catholics who could participate at communion. Non-Catholics would be invited to get a blessing. You shouldn’t have too much trouble getting permission to marry - but go and talk to a priest first, even just to say ‘we’re thinking about marriage, what’s the deal?’. If the priest sees no real conflict, he should be happy to put in for permission from the Bishop.

Our marriage is not sacramental, yes it makes me sad, yes it is lonely but I give those feelings back to Christ. I too pray for his conversion every day, what you also have to remember to pray for is patience, grace and acceptance of God’s will. It might never happen, that’s the reality you have to face. I went into our marriage knowing that it would not always be easy, that we will struggle, that he may never convert and it’s just a decision you have to make - can you deal with this?

I’ve also learnt not to nag, plead, force articles or anything Catholic in hubby’s face. I just be the best Catholic I can and he has said that makes more of an impact on him than anything else.

 

[Seatuck]

The husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader to the wife and family . Think hard about entering into a marriage where the husband will not be able to undertake that role. There will be a void.

 

[agapewolf]

A marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person may not have a mass.

 

[Chiltepin]

I married a non-baptized ‘christian’. He was raised in a very Chrisitan home but he just hasn’t been baptised himself yet, he wants to but is still praying about it - I always quote Paul to him "What are you waiting for?, Rise and be baptised!’

I too dated a Catholic before I met hubby. He was lovely but totally lukewarm, probably even cold in his faith…and he turned out to be a bit of a doosh.

We didn’t have a Nuptial Mass only because the Eucharist is something hubby really struggles with. As our priest said, there is nothing greater for your marriage that the gift of Christ in the Eucharist, but it’s also important to be loving to your partner. I stuggled with this because I really wanted a Mass (in the Catholic way, not the bridezilla way) and look, we’re still married, our marriage is valid in the eyes of God and the Church so it’s ok. If and when hubby gets baptised, our marriage will be sacramental.

You can have a Nuptial Mass but it would obviously only be you and other Catholics who could participate at communion. Non-Catholics would be invited to get a blessing. You shouldn’t have too much trouble getting permission to marry - but go and talk to a priest first, even just to say ‘we’re thinking about marriage, what’s the deal?’. If the priest sees no real conflict, he should be happy to put in for permission from the Bishop.

Our marriage is not sacramental, yes it makes me sad, yes it is lonely but I give those feelings back to Christ. I too pray for his conversion every day, what you also have to remember to pray for is patience, grace and acceptance of God’s will. It might never happen, that’s the reality you have to face. I went into our marriage knowing that it would not always be easy, that we will struggle, that he may never convert and it’s just a decision you have to make - can you deal with this?

I’ve also learnt not to nag, plead, force articles or anything Catholic in hubby’s face. I just be the best Catholic I can and he has said that makes more of an impact on him than anything else.

I appreciate your story. It gives me some hope. I’ve gotten a lot of pretty stern warnings in this thread. I am taking them seriously as I think about our future over the coming months.

Based on some of the other post it sounds like I would not be able to have a nuptual mass if I married this man. Whether or not wedding guests could recieve the Eucharist would not really be a concern of mine. I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity to recieve the Eucharist on that special day (except I guess through marrying someone whose status prevents a mass)

I’d like to ask you a few questions and if they are too personal, you don’t have to answer, or you can answer in a PM.

-Do you have children?
-If so, what role has your husband played in the religious education of your children?
-Did you feel and do you feel that marrying this man was your vocation?
-The loneliness you feel, how far into your marriage did that develop, or was it always there?

These are things I think about and do not take lightly. The raising of Catholic children is something we discuss frequently. He is fine with going to Mass on Sundays with the family. He attends sometimes now, but I have explained that children need to see that church is not just a female thing. He sees the value in spending that time with his family on a Sunday.

He asked me what would we do when the kids want to know why their daddy doesn’t recieve Communion. I figured that we would tell them that Daddy didn’t grow up going to church and being taught to know Christ like you are. It can be harder for grown-ups and your Daddy just isn’t ready yet because he still has a lot to learn. He wasn’t offended by that in the least.

 

[kage_ar]

When you boil it all down, Christianity is more than being a good person and going to Mass. It is about heaven and hell and making a decision in this life where you will spend eternity. Our children are taught the faith from birth.

When the kids ask about daddy and communion, when they are at that age, the next question will be “if daddy does not believe in Jesus (take communion, go to confession - take your pick of which one they will focus on) - he will not go to heaven ”.

Are you ready to answer THAT question honestly? To say “your daddy is playing fast and loose with his eternal soul and we should pray every day that he comes to Jesus and can live in heaven forever.”

 

[Catholic1954]

If you are looking for a husband, protector, provider and father to your children, then this guy sounds like a good fit for you. Don’t be discourged by some of the answers given here, there are plenty of people in this forum who would not be Catholic today if they had not married a faithful, practicing Catholic who shared their faith and brought them into the Church. If you guys are seriously considering marriage, you should make an appointment and see a priest, he will be able to give you insight and guidence to determine your next step.

 

[Chiltepin]

If you are looking for a husband, protector, provider and father to your children, then this guy sounds like a good fit for you. Don’t be discourged by some of the answers given here, there are plenty of people in this forum who would not be Catholic today if they had not married a faithful, practicing Catholic who shared their faith and brought them into the Church. If you guys are seriously considering marriage, you should make an appointment and see a priest, he will be able to give you insight and guidence to determine your next step.

Thank you for the encouraging words. He really is a good guy.

I guess people are just warning that I should not count on him converting. Others are maybe suggesting that it would be wildly irresponsible and a danger to myself and my future children. I shouldn’t expect it to happen, but you are right that it does happen. I don’t claim to know God’s will, but prayers and sacrifice for conversion surely would not be against it.

 

[lizaanne]

I dated a man for four years and was engaged to be married. We were so in love it was beyond anything I had ever experienced. We were made for each other (I thought) - every minute we were together was amazing. But…I had to agree to disagree when it came to my Faith. He was very Protestant and I am very Catholic. He went to Mass with me every weekend, I went to his worship service every weekend as well. He promised to marry in the Catholic Church and raise our children as Catholic. He even put himself through the Tribunal to receive a declaration of nullity of a previous “marriage”. It was all so perfect - and then he broke up with six months before the wedding. The chastity before marriage and living according to the Church was just too much for him and he could not see a life of that ahead of him.

Flash forward — I am now married to the most amazing Catholic man, who loves me as Christ loves the Church. We both know we live a sacrament every day of our lives together. To kneel at the rail and receive Jesus with him by my side is priceless beyond words.

So - it doesn’t matter how “perfect” someone may be on all counts but one. It is that one point that really can make or break a marriage.

You can still pray for him to convert even if you don’t marry him - I still pray daily for the conversion of my ex-fiance. I always will. But I’m eternally grateful for following God’s will and not pushing him into a marriage where I would always have to agree to disagree, or not have my own husband in lock step with me in my Faith.

~Liza

 

[Chiltepin]

Update:

I just found this thread from a long time ago and it made me laugh.

About a year after I started this thread we got engaged and 6 months after that we got married. My husband and I are now expecting our first child in July. Hopefully it is the first of many.

He is now a believing Christian who attends Mass with me every Sunday and on Holy Days of Obligation. We pray together, including praying the rosary (which was initiated by him!) He recites the creed at Mass and means every word of it. At this point it is really a matter of getting him into the RCIA. I’m trying not to be a nag about it.

Turns out it has not been the lonely life so many suggested. Many of the most honest, raw and interesting religious conversations I have had in my life have been with my husband.

Before I say it, I will say that I came to the forums for advice and that is what I was recieving, so thank you for taking the time to offer it.

That being out of the way, TAKE THAT NAY-SAYERS!

 

[Castello]

Interesting, why did he decide not to be baptized in the Catholic Church?

The whole “take that” is sort of - odd?

 

[Chiltepin]

Interesting, why did he decide not to be baptized in the Catholic Church?

It has taken him time to come around to that. If he could just be baptized rather than go through all the sacraments of initiation at once, I think he would have by now. I do think it is starting to make sense to him why the church would have you as an adult go through all of them at once and it is really just a matter of getting him into an RCIA class at the right start time.

The whole “take that” is sort of - odd?

I’ll give you that. It was odd. It is just that back when I was only considering the possibility of marrying him, most of the advice in this thread was you’ll be lonely in the relationship and making a terrible mistake. This has not been the case. I have been happier in this marriage than I have ever been in my life and look very much forward to raising a Catholic family.

 

[Castello]

It has taken him time to come around to that. If he could just be baptized rather than go through all the sacraments of initiation at once, I think he would have by now. I do think it is starting to make sense to him why the church would have you as an adult go through all of them at once and it is really just a matter of getting him into an RCIA class at the right start time.

I’ll give you that. It was odd. It is just that back when I was only considering the possibility of marrying him, most of the advice in this thread was you’ll be lonely in the relationship and making a terrible mistake. This has not been the case. I have been happier in this marriage than I have ever been in my life and look very much forward to raising a Catholic family.

Ahhhh, okay. When you said he is now a Christian, I took that to mean he had been validly baptized.

If I understand you now, he is open to becoming a Christian he is just not yet ready to “jump in” yet and become fully initiated. Prayers that soon he says YES!!!