Marriage question

[Kristee321]

I am a recently engaged “cradle” Catholic. My fiance has not been baptized. My father is really pushing for a Catholic Church wedding. Does anyone know if he is actually asking the impossible of me? I was told by a coworker that in a Polish Catholic Church I could actually have the whole Catholic wedding, mass and all. Can anyone verify this information? It seems so crazy to try and plan a wedding under the best of circumstances, but it seems that now, my Church is just working against me.

 

[jrabs]

It seems so crazy to try and plan a wedding under the best of circumstances, but it seems that now, my Church is just working against me.

Welcome to the forum.
A hard hitting first post indeed.

Your concerns, talking as a cradle Catholic, seem out of place. You stated that you feel your church is working against you. You are more concerned about a wedding then having a sacramental one? The church is gravely concerned that you enter into a valid sacramental marriage. How is that working against you? They have your soul as the core interest.

And your concern about planning a perfect wedding. A perfect wedding to a practicing Catholic would be one in a Catholic church.

Are you asking to shop around and find a church that will accomodate your needs? Should the church bend to accomodate you?

 

[Kristee321]

Thanks so much for your response. well, the situation with my church is really confusing for me as well. I called my church and they told me that sure, I could marry there, but I would only be able to have the service, not the mass. Also, I could not be married at the alter. However, if I was fine with that, I also needed to complete 6 months of marriage prep classes, a couple’s retreat at the end, and a natural family planning class (all of which are mandatory, do not miss one class or you start over.) I could see doing all of that if I was going to be allowed to have the complete Catholic wedding, but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present. I guess, my frustration is not specifically at my parish, although, there is some frustration in the direction of the pastor who has made all of these classes mandatory for engaged couples; my frustration is at the Catholic church in general. I feel torn, because I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all. At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

 

[lotusblossom]

You may have to look around at other parishes. I know some friends (who both are Catholic) were told by their parish priest that he would not do a Mass because he didn’t do wedding Masses anymore (he has a disability and they do not have another priest at this parish). They ended up having the full Mass, but at first were very frustrated.

I know several couples who had a full wedding Mass where one of the spouses was not Catholic, so I’m sure it’s allowed. As long as you’re willing (esp. your fiance) to do all the marriage prep (which in my opinion is essential regardless of whether or not your future spouse is Catholic or not) that is required by your diocese/parish, then it should be fine. I got married at another church other than my home parish because it was bigger and I was having a big wedding, so there’s nothing wrong with finding another parish. However, many have strict rules about belonging to the parish, so if you’re wedding is coming up, I’d begin right away looking for a church! God bless!

 

[jrabs]

. I feel torn, because I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all. At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

Your happiness is a direct correlation to the purity of your soul. The church does not make rules for us to be happy. The church makes rules so we can try and achieve eternal life. They take the sacraments seriously.

There are reasons they make you take all prep classes. They are good classes. NFP IS a big concern for the church these days as an alternative to birth control.

Once again, the church needs to make certain you are prepared to enter into a sacramental marriage with no cause for a decree of nullity down the road.

The church wants to make sure you both have decided to raise the children in the Catholic faith. This really is not about your happiness and you getting what you want. It’s about your soul, your marriage and salvation.

 

[jrabs]

You may have to look around at other parishes. I know some friends (who both are Catholic) were told by their parish priest that he would not do a Mass because he didn’t do wedding Masses anymore (he has a disability and they do not have another priest at this parish). They ended up having the full Mass, but at first were very frustrated.

The real question, in this case, however, is WHY are you shopping for a church? If it is to try and find one that will marry you without the proper prep, then church shopping is not a good idea.

 

[uncleauberon]

Kristee321,

On the basic idea there isn’t a barrier to having a wedding in the Catholic church.

When you approach your local parish or the one you grew up in, there will be questions to answer and forms to fill out.

There will be some practical requirements to fulfill such as marriage preparation.

You don’t even have to have the Full Mass( – which may become awkward at communion time.)

• You can just do the Matrimonial Rite.

You Fiance’ not being baptized shouldn’t be a huge barrier.

Will he agree to having the marriage in the Church ?
Will he agree that he will not hinder your faithful growth in the Faith ?
Will he agree to have your children raised in the Catholic faith ?

If these three answers are yes - you can proceed.

---

As for the Church setting up barriers and restrictions think of it this way…

If someone wanted to have a wedding in your house - and wanted your public blessing, approval, and lifetime justification of their marriage …
Would you just say yes without any restrictions ?

Wouldn’t want them to do some marriage prep so that you have some reasonable assurance that the marriage will be successful ?

Wouldn’t you want them to do things a certain way in your house so that they don’t disrespect your home or family.

Please remember that it is you that is asking for the marriage in the Church. The Church is your Mother in her house it’s her rules.

If you don’t care about her approval, her blessing, or the graces you get from that blessing - then you don’t really need to have a big church wedding.

In short, once you decide that you really want to be married in the Church, then don’t look on any of the difficulties as barriers –

Look at them as stepping stones to to accomplishing what you have already decided as important in your life.

Personally, I hope you do go for the Church Wedding — making your wedding a sacramental union will grant you many unseen graces throughout your life.

You are already a Baptized Member in Big Moma’s house - please stick around and enjoy the famly.

TJP

 

[jrabs]

However, if I was fine with that, I also needed to complete 6 months of marriage prep classes, a couple’s retreat at the end, and a natural family planning class (all of which are mandatory, do not miss one class or you start over.) I could see doing all of that if I was going to be allowed to have the complete Catholic wedding, but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present.

This statement smacks as a less than mature statement with little regard for your sacramental approach to marriage.

Like a little child stomps her feet and says, " But I don’t want to do that. I want to do it my way. Your way is just stupid."

 

[puzzleannie]

I am a recently engaged “cradle” Catholic. My fiance has not been baptized. It seems so crazy to try and plan a wedding under the best of circumstances, but it seems that now, my Church is just working against me.

in what way is your church working against you? have you actually followed the accepted procedure, which is probably listed in your parish bulletin, visited the pastor for an interview to discuss your wedding plans? If not, and you have not even taken the first step, how can you say your church is against you?

If you have chosen to marry a non-Christian you for one have turned against the Church. It is up to you to ask for a dispensation to marry a non-Christian. This is pretty routine, unless the interview with the pastor gives him reason to believe you yourself are in danger of abandoning the faith.

Would it not make more sense to actually ask your pastor before you hyperventilate?

 

[puzzleannie]

Thanks so much for your response. well, the situation with my church is really confusing for me as well. I called my church and they told me that sure, I could marry there, but I would only be able to have the service, not the mass. ?

who is “they” that you spoke with? did you just talk to the secretary on the phone, or did you schedule a face to face interview with the priest or deacon who prepares you for marriage?

Yes it is true that a Catholic who marries a non-Catholic will be strongly advised not to exchange vows in the context of a nuptial Mass, for the very pastoral reason, being considerate of the feelings of the non-Catholics who will attend and who will of course be excluded from receiving communion. Hardly a good way to begin by offending half the guests.

your pastor is not the one who made the 6 month preparation and classes mandatory, your bishop did that. The reason the bishops require solid marriage preparation is their experience with the explosion in requests for annulments following Catholics who have obtained civil divorces. This experience has proven that when people rush into marriage–and also when Catholics marry non-Catholics–divorce is much more likely. The preparation is to insure that any issues that might prevent the parties from exchanging valid consent are identified and dealth with long before the wedding.

You might just review your baptismal commitment, the sacramental nature of marriage–a covenant with God, man and wife for life–and grow up a bit. Maturity is surely a prerequisite for a solid marriage, and you sound like you have way to go.

No one is asking you to do anything all other couples are not asked to do, so chill out.

 

[Seatuck]

Thanks so much for your response. well, the situation with my church is really confusing for me as well. I called my church and they told me that sure, I could marry there, but I would only be able to have the service, not the mass. Also, I could not be married at the alter. However, if I was fine with that, I also needed to complete 6 months of marriage prep classes, a couple’s retreat at the end, and a natural family planning class (all of which are mandatory, do not miss one class or you start over.) I could see doing all of that if I was going to be allowed to have the complete Catholic wedding, but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present. I guess, my frustration is not specifically at my parish, although, there is some frustration in the direction of the pastor who has made all of these classes mandatory for engaged couples; my frustration is at the Catholic church in general. I feel torn, because I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all. At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

Well, you are going to enter into an unsacramental marriage. That isn’t what the church hopes for you. Marriage is designed as a pathway to heaven. An unbaptized person most likely will not be the best choice for such a job. So the church will allow you to make such a choice but there isn’t the same rejoicing as if you chose the Sacrament. If you want to get married in Mass you will have to marry a baptized person.

 

[puzzleannie]

. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

if you marry outside the church and separate yourself from Christ’s grace and sacraments, your unhappiness is virtually assured.

 

[stadre]

Thanks so much for your response. well, the situation with my church is really confusing for me as well.

I can imagine that this would be confusing if you have not already looked into what it means to be married in the Catholic Church.

I called my church and they told me that sure, I could marry there, but I would only be able to have the service, not the mass.

It is often recommended that couples who are not both Catholic to have the Rite of Marriage without the Mass. This is a practical thing in many ways since the marriage ceremony is about your unity. To have a Mass where one of the two is unable to receive Communion does not show that unity. However, it is possible to have a full Mass. I know that we did. (DH was not baptized at the time.)

Also, I could not be married at the alter.

Check into that with the PRIEST. Perhaps the person you spoke with was not fully informed. (Where would the ceremony take place if not on the altar?)

However, if I was fine with that, I also needed to complete 6 months of marriage prep classes, a couple’s retreat at the end, and a natural family planning class (all of which are mandatory, do not miss one class or you start over.)

Every Catholic Church I have seen requires a six month preperation period. This is essential, especially in this situation where your fiance may not fully understand what it is to be married in the Church. (ie. Does he know that you will not be able to use contraception–thus the NFP class–and that you will be expected to do everything you are able to raise your children in the Church?

I could see doing all of that if I was going to be allowed to have the complete Catholic wedding, but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present.

Kristee, I can feel your frustration right now. I am feeling it myself because I am guessing that your church has not prepared you for what it means to be married. As a baptized Catholic, your marriage will not be valid unless it is in the Church (or you get permission–called a “dispensation”–from your bishop). To be married outside of the Church means you will not be able to receive communion until such a time as your marriage is blessed in the Church. (And you WILL have to go through the same preparation at that time as well–there is no getting around it! )

I guess, my frustration is not specifically at my parish, although, there is some frustration in the direction of the pastor who has made all of these classes mandatory for engaged couples; my frustration is at the Catholic church in general. I feel torn, because I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all. At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

Please know that your happiness is the core interest here. (Will you be happy if, not being fully prepared for your marriage, you divorce?) That comes from living as God intends here so that you can live with Him for eternity. Your marriage should be a foretaste of Heaven and you both will be responsible for helping the other get there. Your church is doing its best to help you be prepared for this enormous responsiblity, which without God’s assistance–through the sacraments, is impossible.

 

[deb1]

This statement smacks as a less than mature statement with little regard for your sacramental approach to marriage.

Like a little child stomps her feet and says, " But I don’t want to do that. I want to do it my way. Your way is just stupid."

I don’t think that the Op is immature, she just isn’t yet aware of all the reasons behind the rules. Hopefully, she will get some good answers on this thread.

 

[Black_Jaque]

. . .but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present.

WHOOOOOOAAAAAA Horsey!

Now that was a mouthful. And it is entirely incorrect.

As a baptised Catholic you are obligated to get married in-the-Church. If you go runnin’ off to a justice of the peace, or even a protestant denomination you can get yourself excommunicated! You’d need a dispensation from form.

It sounds like you could benefit by learning a bit about what the Church teaches about marriage. Marrying a non-baptised person is not a problem. Getting married outside the Church is a problem.

The Church doesn’t give a plug nickel about what kind of wedding you’re going to have. The Church cares a whole lot about what kind of marriage you’re going to have. Don’t you?

 

[nana3]

Kristee,
I just want to say that you can have a Catholic Mass Wedding if that is what you want. Maybe your pastor and that parish doesn’t do it, but they can. I could go to another Catholic Church not a protestant church to have your wedding there. I wanted to get married at my parish, but I wanted to give a dozen white roses to Our Lady. My parish took out the statue of Mary they had and so I asked the pastor if I would bring in a statue from home and he said no way. He said if he bent the rules for me that others may want it too. It wasn’t a unreasonable request, but I decided to go to another Catholic Church and had to become a parishioner and did. I got married there. My sister also had problems at one Catholic Church that wanted $800.00 to marry them for they were not parishioners. My parents were though. They would not make an exception. She looked into another Catholic Church for they did not have the money to pay and did not want my parents to pay that much. This was 15 years ago. They married at another Catholic Church that only required what you could afford. My parents gave the priest $350.00.

Also please don’t marry outside the Church. I have a cousin who was refused to be married in any Catholic Church for her fiancee was divorced and considered still married. They did not want to wait for an annulment. They married in a protestant church. She gave up her dream wedding in a Catholic Church. She is now on birth control, again against Church teachings, but does so because of her weak faith and hubby wants it that way. She gained weight on these pills and now is very unhappily married for her husband has told her many times that he doesn’t want a “fat wife.” They are still married, but she is so unhappy and is in fact not married at all but committing adultery. Yes, if she would have listen to the Church, she could have been happy and had a sacramental marriage.

 

[agapewolf]

There are a few misunderstandings here, and a few truths.

I help with marriage prep and play music for weddings (I am involved in the liturgy planning).

First of all, a Catholic marrying a NON-BAPTIZED person, may NOT have a Mass. It is canon law. The Polish Catholic church (as an official title) is NOT in-line with Rome and under the Authority of the RomanCatholic Church.

The Eucharist is the “consumation” of the sacrament when both are baptized. It is impossible to have that grace when one is not Baptized.A catholic marrying a non-catholic Baptized person have the option of having a mass or not.

A catholic marrying a non-baptized person is actually a IMPEDIMENT!!! You have to get dispensation form the Bishop. It would be considered valid, but not a sacrament.

Can. 1086 §1. A marriage between two persons, one of whom has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is not baptized, is invalid.

If you really think you can live your whole life married to this person and he’ll help you get to heaven, and you can do it WITHOUT the grace from the sacrament of marriage…good luck to you.

But please…consider your reasons for wanting to get married catholic…is it because your dad wants it? Why would you even want a mass then? The reason our divorce rates in the Catholic Church seem to coincide with the secular world is that it seems no one is turned down, and people that SAY they are Catholic but really don’t practice the Church’s teachings get married under the umbrella, but don’t live it out.

 

[nana3]

First of all, a Catholic marrying a NON-BAPTIZED person, may NOT have a Mass.

I just talked this thread over with my husband who was studying to be a priest at one time and lived with many priest in monastery and his first question was if your fiancee was Catholic. I asked if this mattered and he said yes. I agree with the above statement. Thank you agapewolf for educating us. I learned something new today.

 

[dkoinzan]

I am Catholic and I am Married to an unbaptized Man. We were married during Mass. We have what is considered to be a Natural Marriage. Should my husband ever become baptized, we would then have a Sacrimental Marriage. We were required to get a dispensation from the Bishop of the diocese. We had to take classes and learned NFP. I recommend you read the book, “Theology of the Body for Beginners,” by Christopher West. This explains why the Church has the rules they have. It has really given me some insight into marriage. Marriage is a lifetime decission and we don’t study how to be good at it, yet we rarely make a commitment to a purchase without researching.

The Church sometimes seems to put up road blocks. I did not understand all that was being asked of me by the church when I got Married. Now I understand and appreciate the beauty of Marriage in the Church. It is like I was given the most beautiful gift, but I never took off the wrapping.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve tried to find better references, but this is what I have so far:

From the USCCB
nccbuscc.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

1. What is a Nuptial Mass and when can a couple have one?

A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass.

If the situation warrants it and the local bishop gives permission, a Nuptial Mass may be celebrated for a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not a Catholic, except that Communion is not given to the non-Catholic since the general law of the church does not allow it. In such instances, it is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass. This is always the case in a marriage between a baptized Catholic and a non-baptized person