Marriage question

[dkoinzan]

I’ve tried to find better references, but this is what I have so far:

From the USCCB
nccbuscc.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

1. What is a Nuptial Mass and when can a couple have one?

A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass.

My husband and I were married in a Nuptial Mass. My husband is not baptized. I would recommend asking the experts on EWTN question and answers.

 

[stadre]

I’ve tried to find better references, but this is what I have so far:

From the USCCB
nccbuscc.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

1. What is a Nuptial Mass and when can a couple have one?

A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass.

If the situation warrants it and the local bishop gives permission, a Nuptial Mass may be celebrated for a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not a Catholic, except that Communion is not given to the non-Catholic since the general law of the church does not allow it. In such instances, it is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass. This is always the case in a marriage between a baptized Catholic and a non-baptized person

I am not trying to argue with you. We did have our marriage celebrated with the Mass. My husband, unbaptized at the time, did not of course receive communion. You highlighted a sentence which you thought should be stressed, but I am reading in the sentence before that “It is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass.” Maybe they are saying, “It is always better in the case between Catholic and unbatized?” I really don’t know.

 

[1ke]

Thanks so much for your response. well, the situation with my church is really confusing for me as well.

I am sorry you were not properly catechized on the Sacraments, and have not as an adult taken it upon yourself to acquire that knowledge.

I think there are some key distinction that you need to focus on.

Marriage is one of the seven Sacraments of the Church. The Sacraments are instituted by Christ to give grace and build up the Kingdom. They have a specific purpose, a specific form, and specific guidelines.

There is also a civil institution called “marriage”, whose particulars vary from state to state and country to country. This is a civil contract that give the two people who enter into it tax advantages, contractual obligations, and legal status related to inheritence and offspring.

Marriage in the Church has no relationship to civil marriage, except that in modern times the Church has allowed its priests to become certified under state law to witness marriages. If this were not the case, one would have to marry in the Church to received the Sacrament and also separately fulfill the requirements to have that marriage recognized under civil law (if they would so choose).

Personally, I think comingling the civil and religious purposees of marriage is what has resulted in confusion such as your. You do not have a “right” to marriage. Just as you have no “right” to any Sacrament. Marriage is a VOCATION. It is a God-given calling to a specific ministry in the Church. That ministry is to build up the kingdom through procreation and to witness to Christ through the union of the spouses.

That is not what you are seeking. You are marrying an unbeliever. So, you are actually seeking a civil marriage in a Catholic Church and a Catholic format. You want the ceremonial aspects, the “look and feel”. But you fail to understand the supernatual reality of the Sacrament.

You have stated that you want a Catholic Church wedding. But, you do not want the Sacrament of Marriage. A Sacrament can only take place between baptized persons. Your fiance is not baptized. Therefore, you cannot receive the Sacrament of Marriage. As some one has already posted, these marriages are invalid-- UNLESS the Chruch gives you a dispensation to enter into a civil marriage called a Good and Natural Marriage with the church as witness.

You, as a Catholic, must abide by Catholic church law regarding the Sacraments.

I called my church and they told me that sure, I could marry there, but I would only be able to have the service, not the mass. Also, I could not be married at the alter.

That is correct. Sacraments take place within the Mass and at the altar.

The witnessing of a marriage that is not a Sacrament does not take place within the Mass or at the altar.

However, if I was fine with that, I also needed to complete 6 months of marriage prep classes, a couple’s retreat at the end, and a natural family planning class (all of which are mandatory, do not miss one class or you start over.)

Kristie, as a Catholic you are bound to follow church law and church requirements. Canon law stipulates a proper preparation for entering into a marriage.

I could see doing all of that if I was going to be allowed to have the complete Catholic wedding, but the only difference between what my church is offering and what I would get at a different church is that I would have a Catholic priest present.

Kristie, that is not the “only” difference. Being married according to Catholic law gives you a valid good and natural marriage and the ability to continue to receive the Sacraments.

Being married outside the Church with no permission to do so gives you an invalid marriage and bars you from the Sacraments until such time as you have your marriage validated by the Church.

 

[1ke]

I guess, my frustration is not specifically at my parish, although, there is some frustration in the direction of the pastor who has made all of these classes mandatory for engaged couples; my frustration is at the Catholic church in general.

This is not something specific to your parish. Marriage preparation is a stipulation of Canon Law, with the details of how it is carried out left up to each bishop in his diocese.

I feel torn, because I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all.

You cannot have what the church as no power to give you. Only baptized persons can receive the Sacrament of Marriage and your fiance is not baptized.

The church can witness your civil marriage, at the Church using the Marriage Rite outside of Mass, and will gladly do so. And, if your fiance were ever to be baptized, your marriage would become a Sacrament automatically.

At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church.

Kristie, You have it backwards. The Church is not making it difficult. You are. You have chosen to marry an unbaptized person. The Church makes the allowance for you, but only as a mercy to you. You have ignored the purpose of marriage completely if you are contemplating marrying an unbaptized person.

I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

These two things are not mutually exclusive. It is your eternal happiness that is in jeopardy-- your soul.

The kind of “happiness” you are referring to is temporary. One can only be truly happy when one is steadily working towards holiness and union with God. You are seeking union with an unbeliever-- a false and fleeting happiness headed in the opposite direction of closer union through God and the building up of the Kingdom.

Your future is really perilous, and the Church knows that. I hope that you will think twice about it and seriously consider why the Church teaches what it does regarding marriage.

 

[Seatuck]

A marriage between a catholic and an unbaptized person is not supposed to be done in the context of a sacramental celebration. I found the following statement on about 10 different parish websites.

The Church provides three different rites for marriage:

• a sacramental rite during the Eucharist, which is the usual (but not mandatory) form when both parties are Catholic;
• a sacramental rite outside Eucharist, which is the usual (but not mandatory) form when one party is baptized, but not Catholic;
• a non-sacramental rite between a Catholic and an unbaptized person.
  It is not supposed to be done. Marriage is a sacrament . It signifies the union between Christ and the church as well the union of the Trinity. The catholic is choosing to live outside that sacrament. It can not be celebrated with Mass.While the church gives such a catholic permission it is done with sadness. The Priest was in error to celebrate the Mass. As far as I can tell anyway. Perhaps it is up to the Bishop but I haven’t seen any evidence of that.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Lots of marriages between practicing Catholics take place without a Mass.

There is no negative connotation to not having a Mass at their wedding.

The KEY thing here is that nobody in the Church wants to see you all get divorced in seven years and nobody wants to see your children get shuttled back and forth in a “broken home”.

The problem that EVERYONE cares passionately about is that the divorce rate among Catholics seems to be about as high as the divorce rate among non-Catholics.

And divorces are a bad thing.

So, the Bishops make their parisioners “jump through hoops” in marriage preparation for two reasons:

1. education … marriage is serious stuff … not just from a spiritual perspective … but married people ROUTINELY run into stressful conditions on daily basis that can be marriage-breakers if the couple isn’t prepared for them.
2. compatibility … sometimes the couple may just not be compatible. Sometimes the process of arranging for the marriage takes on a life of its own and the couple gets married even when they come to realize that things are just not “right”. The chemistry that works at a sports bar or beach party or at the workplace or at school … might just not be the same chemistry that works in the daily slings and arrows of marriage … when the honeymoon wears off … and somebody has to put out the trash before heading off to work.

The “ordeal by marriage preparation” helps provide a sense of perspective that can help the couple identify issues that may need to be addressed.

 

[dkoinzan]

Would you fiance get baptized? Have you asked? Mine hasn’t, yet he attend every Mass and is learning about the Catholic Faith because the kids need help with homework. It has been hard to have a husband who doesn’t want to join the church. My children pray daily for his conversion.

 

[LittleRose]

I want a Catholic wedding, mass and all. At the same time, I can’t help but to feel that things are being made so difficult by the church. I understand that they have my soul as the core interest, but at the same time, what about my happiness?

The church is not keeping you from getting married. It is helping you, and you will appreciate the trouble the prep work will save you after the wedding.

It’s like when your parents told you to look both ways before crossing the street. A little kid isn’t going to want to take the time, and won’t understand immediately, but the parent knows that if he doesn’t, he could get run over. And, later, once the child has more street-crossing experience, she begins to understand the value of taking extra time to protect her future.

It’s worth the extra time to prepare. It’s not about getting a “deal” on your wedding where you get more perks for more prep time. It’s about investing in your marriage. Take the classes for your fiancee’s sake, and for your own, not for your wedding .

Your marriage is more important than your wedding. You can have a perfect fairy-tale wedding, but that is one day, and your marriage is a lifetime. Just look at Princess Diana. She had a gorgeous wedding, but that didn’t keep her marriage from being a failure.

And, on top of your marriage being more important than your wedding, your soul is more important than your earthly happiness.

You should also know that if you choose to marry this man in a non-catholic setting you will have to get a dispensation because he is not baptized, or else your marriage will be invalid in the eyes of the Church (which means even if you have a wedding outside of the Church without the dispensation, you will not be married in the eyes of God).

 

[dwc]

A little off topic here and certainly more than you asked for – but here goes:

My mom is Catholic, my dad was never baptized. They married in the church (no idea what type of liturgy, and it’s beside the point I’m going to make). They are still married, but it has been very difficult. My mom recently confided in me that if she had it to do all over, she would have only married a man who shared her faith. Although it didn’t seem to be a deal breaker at the time and their marriage survived, it hasn’t thrived. If the marriage doesn’t thrive, the family doesn’t thrive. My dad was always very respectful of our faith, we always prayed at meals (he would just quietly look down), we were all raised Catholic, sent to Catholic schools, etc., but my dad’s very quiet and unobtrusive lack of faith was always this huge elephant in our family. Since I was a small child I’ve always prayed for his conversion. I worry about his soul and I’m very sad that he will die and I will never see him in heaven.

For what it’s worth, I really encourage you to think very long term here when you make this decision. As people age and mature and have children their faith often becomes more and more important to them and it can put a very large strain on your marriage and certainly any children you might have.

 

[Beaver]

What kind of marriage do you want?

Fallen or Restored, please read all of the post before you make a decision.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=133369

 

[Mommyof02green]

I married my husband April 2000 and at the time he was NOT baptized.
Later that fall he on his own free will decided to go to RCIA and he was baptized and fully joined the church EASTER 2001.

Any back to the point.
We married in the Catholic Church in April 2000

We started or Marriage prep Jan 1999
(So our marriage prep was 15 months)

During the marriage prep we met with the priest monthly
We had to take the FOCCUS test.
We had to go to an Engagement Encounter Weekend.

Also, during that time the priest filled out papers for us; to give to the Bishop to get a dispensation to get married in the Catholic Church. (A dispensation is needed to marry a non-baptized person)

At that time taking an NFP class was not required by the dioceses. (However, hubby and I wished that we did do that before getting married) (Now our diocese requires all couples that want to get married to take an NFP class)

Not having a “Mass” was the most natural thing for me at the time.
The priest never told us that it wasn’t possible. I the first meeting asked the priest if we can do this without a Mass. The priest looked at me and asked why? I said, not that I don’t want the Mass, I do, but I know that my fiancé cannot receive the Eucharist. This is supposed to be a “union” and I don’t want to do something that he can’t do. The priest just said, “Not a problem we can have a wedding without a Mass”.

During the marriage prep w/the priest we talked about in-laws; children; money; careers; church; faith etc.

Hubby’s sibling also got married around the same time. Sadly, hubby’s sibling has already divorced. Hubby has talked to his sibling, they mention this or that, and hubby just asked “Did you talk about that stuff before the wedding?”

We also have another sibling that got married recently, at non-catholic church, and they will mention stuff to me and I will say to them “Did you talk about that stuff before you got married?”

I’m thankful for the marriage prep that we did with our priest. We talked about so many things and Hubby and I were able to lay down a good foundation for our marriage to grow on. Therefore we can have a marriage that has a chance to really grow and stand the test of time.

As I mention the wedding prep we did was 15 months. Well hubby asked me to marry him on Saturday Night in Jan 1999. The next morning (Sunday) I went to church and told the priest and asked to meet with him that week.

We met that week and he told me that it needs to be a minimum of 6 months. Six months would be July 1999. I told the priest I’m not having a “summer” wedding. I want a spring wedding. He said well not this spring and I said fine next spring. So the date was set for April 2000.

Yes, I know I did the first thing that most brides do not do… I went to the church first. Most brides I know find the reception hall first and will delay the wedding for months; even years just to have the reception at this special place.

OP it is possible to be married in the Catholic Church even though your fiancé is not baptized.

What you will have to do decide is the “work” and “prep” worth doing?

Is it worth doing some things that may help your marriage last a lifetime?

 

[Mommyof02green]

You should also know that if you choose to marry this man in a non-catholic setting you will have to get a dispensation because he is not baptized, or else your marriage will be invalid in the eyes of the Church (which means even if you have a wedding outside of the Church without the dispensation, you will not be married in the eyes of God).

If the OP was to marry in a non-catholic setting, then the OP will need 2 dispensations.

1. to marry a non-baptized/non-catholic person
2. to marry in a non-catholic setting

see: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130810&highlight=dispensation