Marriage to a CofE Divorcee

[kage_ar]

kage_ar; I live in the real world and obviously not as perfect as you

Sorry

The teaching of the Church is the real world. Anything that is not of God is something that passes away.

 

[jasinski]

Something is still not adding up. If you were too stressed about it to go to Mass, you must have had some indication before your parents spoke with the priest that this was a problem…

Saw Polish priest and he said it would be fine and advised us to go to lessons. We were going to lessons when I asked another priest and he said it would need annulment

The teaching of the Church is the real world. Anything that is not of God is something that passes away.

Sure, the real world of famine, war, murder, rape mental disease, cancer spreading negativity and putting on the “houlier than thou” act isn’t endearing. You’ve obviously got no compassion unlike the priests I’ve met or the occasional pope I’ve been lucky enough to speak with or even some of the members of this forum. Such a hypocrite.

The church is for sinners, it’s why you and I feel so “at home” there.

 

[Nec5]

Sure spreading negativity and putting on the “houlier than thou” act isn’t endearing. You’ve obviously got no compassion on like the priests I’ve met or the occasional pope I’ve been lucky enough to speak with

The truth is not always endearing, but it is enduring.

You seem to have an attitude issue here regarding humility. The fact is that your fiancee made a very serious error. Let’s call it what it was. She screwed up.

Now she appears to be owning up to it and asking God for help. You’re helping her. Great. I wish we all would do that, myself included. However, that doesn’t mean she or you can simply walk away from the past action. If it takes a while, even a year or so, to work with the Church regarding her past marriage, then consider that the consequence of her past action. If you both truly love each other and God, then this time will only strengthen your relationships.

Your rush to get this sorted out is not representative of the respect you should have for the sacrament of marriage. Take it slow, remember that God is doing the real piloting, and continually working with the Church alongside your fiancee.

 

[jasinski]

No she didn’t “screw up” maybe a mistake but someone can kill someone else and be forgiven

Now she appears to be owning up to it and asking God for help. You’re helping her. Great. I wish we all would do that, myself included. However, that doesn’t mean she or you can simply walk away from your past action. If it takes a while, even a year or so, to work with the Church regarding her past marriage, then consider that the consequence of her past action. If you both truly love each other and God, then this time will only strengthen your relationships.

Your rush to get this sorted out is not representative of the respect you should have for the sacrament of marriage. Take it slow, remember that God is doing the real piloting, and continually working with the Church alongside your fiancee

Who said we are rushing? Every priest, bishop or pope I spoke with always have time and are nice but it seems that some catholics who think they are better than the rest of us think they are perfect like nothing more than to quote scripture, put us down etc

 

[Nec5]

No she didn’t “screw up” maybe a mistake but someone can kill someone else and be forgiven

A sin is a screw up. The more serious the sin, the more serious the screw up. Divorce is a major one. You seem to be having a hard time associating consequences with your fiancee’s past actions. The church does not advocate instant forgiveness without restitution and/or repairing and cleaning up past sins to the extent it is possible.

Again, the problem here is the past decision to marry. Recognize that this divorce is the root of the issue, and work with the Church to sort it out. Do not shy away or avert your eyes to the fact that divorce/annulment/marriage is extremely serious business in the eyes of God.

A sin was committed here in some respect. Deny that and you will get nowhere.

 

[jasinski]

 

[kage_ar]

No one on this thread has put you down. No one has said they are more holy than you. We are all sinners who trust in the mercy of God.

The Church has a teaching on marriage and divorce that has been in place since approx 30 AD.

None of us are more spcecial than the other in the eyes of God and the laws of His Church, not even those who talk to popes.

 

[jasinski]

No one on this thread has put you down. No one has said they are more holy than you.

Sure

 

[1ke]

but it seems that some catholics who think they are better than the rest of us think they are perfect like nothing more than to quote scripture, put us down etc

You asked “why” in your first post-- why she was considered married by the Church. Why you were being punished. Why she couldn’t just get married again.

Those who posted back with church teaching on marriage including scripture, catechism, canon law, etc, were answering the question you asked.

You may not like the answer, but it is the only one that can be given. It’s not an attempt to “put you down” nor is it a declaration that someone is “better” than you or anyone else. It is a factual account of what the Church teaches.

If you didn’t want to know the Church teaching, why did you ask?

If you don’t *like *the Church teaching, then that’s your issue to work through but it doesn’t *change *the Church’s teaching on marriage, the Church’s requirements for marriage, and the Church’s teaching on divorce.

 

[jasinski]

Ok, sure

Anyone here not from the redneck part of the USA?

 

[1ke]

Ok, sure

Anyone here not from the redneck part of the USA?

You are now on ignore. do not send any more private messages to me with rude comments.

 

[dixieagle]

No she didn’t “screw up” maybe a mistake but someone can kill someone else and be forgiven

Who said we are rushing? Every priest, bishop or pope I spoke with always have time and are nice but it seems that some catholics who think they are better than the rest of us think they are perfect like nothing more than to quote scripture, put us down etc

Gee, how many popes have you spoken to?

When you come on a Catholic forum asking a question, you are going to, generally, get answers that are in line with Catholic teaching. When someone answers honestly, they are not “putting you down” or being “holier than thou”; they are just passing along the information you requested.

The bottom line seems to be that your catechesis regarding Catholic teaching with regard to marriage has been incomplete and/or misinformed. Apparently the “Polish priest” you initially consulted either misunderstood, or was mistaken in his own understanding regarding what steps must be taken (shame on him for misleading you.)

When you speak with a knowledgeable priest, he will guide you toward the Tribunal. It may be that your fianceé’s marriage might never have been a real Christian marriage; you won’t know until she goes through the process.

So often we, as frail humans, dig in our heels when we hear something that makes life difficult for us, or isn’t what we want to hear. We’ve all done it. Doing what God wants us to do isn’t always easy, but it is always right.

Talk to the priest, get the Tribunal process underway, and pray.

 

[dixieagle]

What does the part of the US that a poster is from have to do with anything? Actually the Midwest is pretty mainstream; I, however, live in what you would apparently refer to as the “redneck” part of the country.

It does you and your situation no good to rail against people who have given you accurate information simply because they happen to understand Church teaching and answered your question. If anything, it raises questions about maturity.

 

[jasinski]

You are now on ignore. do not send any more private messages to me with rude comments.

Lies. This is a sin.

Gee, how many popes have you spoken to?

Two priests

What does the part of the US that a poster is from have to do with anything?

Nothing, I was just curious. I hope “redneck” isn’t offensive as a Brit, we don’t think it is.

We do see the “redneck” area of the USA somewhat “different”

 

[agapewolf]

Lies. This is a sin.

Two priests

Nothing, I was just curious. I hope “redneck” isn’t offensive as a Brit, we don’t think it is.

We do see the “redneck” area of the USA somewhat “different”

It is extremely offensive. It makes absolutely no sense.

You asked a question, and it was answered comprehensively with objective quotes from the catechism and scripture. That is not a put down. It is not judgement, and it certainly has nothing to do with any kind of “redneck” reference. Just so you know, the “Redneck” reference is a derogatory term for someone uneducated or uninformed. You got the put down backwards in this case. You didn’t like the answer you got so you hurled what you thought were insults.

The objective factual reality is that marriage is forever. She took vows. You shouldn’t date someone that is considered married. I don’t see why there is hostility towards something that would help you not marry someone that is already married. It’s actually something that is helping you.

 

[kage_ar]

You claim to have spoken with more than one Pope. Please state which Popes you have had audience with:

jasinski:
You’ve obviously got no compassion unlike the priests I’ve met or the occasional pope I’ve been lucky enough to speak with or even some of the members of this forum. Such a hypocrite.

The church is for sinners, it’s why you and I feel so “at home” there.

To explain for a moment, a hypocrite is a person who says one thing while doing another. Pray, how have I been a hypocrite?

Cultivate charity in your speech and internet communications, Christians are to always act in the truth and in love.

 

[jasinski]

It is extremely offensive. It makes absolutely no sense.
You asked a question, and it was answered comprehensively with objective quotes from the catechism and scripture. That is not a put down. It is not judgement, and it certainly has nothing to do with any kind of “redneck” reference. Just so you know, the “Redneck” reference is a derogatory term for someone uneducated or uninformed. You got the put down backwards in this case. You didn’t like the answer you got so you hurled what you thought were insults.

The objective factual reality is that marriage is forever. She took vows. You shouldn’t date someone that is considered married. I don’t see why there is hostility towards something that would help you not marry someone that is already married. It’s actually something that is helping you.

A lot of assumptions going on here… I will date whoever I see fit thank you very much after all this nonsense, I think I might just convert to another religion

“Put down” - you lot love to assume stuff. That’s your view on the word but it is certainly not my view. Insults? Trust me, I am sure I can find better insults

Offensive… not sure how, it refers to the fact farmers had neck exposed after lots of work in the fields and thus necks being red. If you find that offensive, I suggest you take a long look at yourself

Cultivate charity in your speech and internet communications, Christians are to always act in the truth and in love.

I met this Pope and the last one. In fact, I had private mass with the last one in Rome

To the ones that have actually been helpful, thanks very much and to those who think in someway they are perfect, I wish you all the best in this life… you self important poor examples of catholics

 

[SMHW]

This thread has gotten a bit volatile. Maybe I’m crazy for joining in but here’s my take on the original post.

Hi,

as I understand it, as a catholic, I can’t get married to my fiancée who is CofE and a divorcee? She was married to a non-catholic. The marriage has not been anulled. She only got married in a registry office.

OK, the woman you want to marry was previously married in a civil ceremony. She’s Church of England; her ex-husband is non-Catholic of unknown (to us) baptismal status.

Why is this?

Because the Church is the visible presence of Christ in this world. And Jesus said,

I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."
(Matthew 19:9)

How can the church say that a legal marriage of two people who are not catholics is valid in the eyes of God?

Because valid marriages have been around since Adam and Eve. The Church only requires Catholics to marry according to her additional rules. Non-Catholics are not bound to rules that members of the Catholic Church must obey. But they are bound to the natural laws of marriage, such as the permanence of valid marriages.

Why am I being punished (and so is my fiancée) in this way? Surely the church should embrace people rather than reject them?

This is kind of like asking why you are being punished if you are injured after jumping/falling off a high cliff. You are speaking about what is (to you and your intended) a troublesome natural consequence of attraction between an unmarried and married person. The Church has no power to change this.

I’m not trying to be flip or rude. I’m just trying get you to understand this logically.

The church (seemingly) is quick to forgive people who have sinned and yet reject people who haven’t.

The Church is not rejecting either you and/or your fiancée. The Church will be happy to forgive any sin for which there is repentence.

But the validity or non-validity of your fiancée’s previous marriage is not a sin. Validity and sin are independent of each other in this case. The Church has no power over the validity of this marriage. She only has the authority from Christ to rule on whether or not that marriage is (and was from the moment of the exchange of vows) valid. And that’s where the marriage tribunal comes in. The tribunal can investigate your fiancée’s marriage to discover if it is valid. But she does not CHANGE the validity of the marriage.

There are probably many persons in the Church who are hoping for you to get a ruling that your fiancée’s previous marriage was null and void. But no person has the power to MAKE that marriage null.

 

[jasinski]

You shouldn’t date someone that is considered married

Phew, as I don’t consider her married, this is ok So basically I can’t fall in love with someone based on their life before I met them? That’s just plain sick.

As the church had no say in her marriage, no part to play, it should have no say in her divorce and it should not recognise the marriage, no matter what scripture you manage to dig up.

I’m just trying get you to understand this logically.

With all due respect (and I fully appreciate the tone of your post), it’s not logical in the slightest. The law binded them and the law seperated them. Not God… the law of the land.

Adam and Eve was a story.

 

[dixieagle]

I think I might be starting to smell a troll…

At the very least, the OP really didn’t want an honest answer to his question.

I’m still interested in his meeting with “two popes”, though.