Marriage to a Protestant

[Tigg]

At issue is the fact she is unwilling to attend mass with me. It breaks my heart, and I’ve avoided serious discussion with her on this topic. Marriage is truly a gift and a blessing from God, and I want her to come to the faith in her own time. I know many Catholic/Protestant couples, and some where the non-Catholic spouse eventually converted (some time after the wedding.)

Please consider if this breaks your heart before marriage, how much more likely it will be to do so after. Spouses are, among other things, to aid each other toward salvation in their marital state and the importance of being able to publicly worship together should not be minimized. And think especially of holidays like Christmas or Easter when you will want her at your side to worship as one unit. Our youngest daughter’s husband, although Catholic, is dead to his faith and has not gone to Church for the past 14 years. It is agonizing for her, especially during Midnight Mass.

Another poster mentioned maybe you’re just trying too hard. If marriage is truly your vocation, let God be the one to choose your spouse for you and the desire of your heart will be fulfilled.

 

[Xantippe]

I came to Catholicism from a Protestant background (converted in late 2011, divorced another Protestant in 2011, annulled in 2013), and have been dating a Protestant lady for around 18 months. Before and early in the relationship, I tried (and tried, and tried, and tried) to find a Catholic woman for marriage but was not successful. At 41 now, and wanting (more) children, I am prayerfully considering that it may just be true that God has put this Southern Baptist lady into my life for a purpose. She is a decent girl, and I have run into more than a few single Catholic women who simply haven’t been good fits (in one case, due to her behavior/strangeness/lack of real availability supposedly due to her job. I think she is playing games…)

At any rate…I am trying to make a decision. It would be unfair to my girlfriend to lead her on, after 18 months together.

At issue is the fact she is unwilling to attend mass with me. It breaks my heart, and I’ve avoided serious discussion with her on this topic. Marriage is truly a gift and a blessing from God, and I want her to come to the faith in her own time. I know many Catholic/Protestant couples, and some where the non-Catholic spouse eventually converted (some time after the wedding.)

It is exceedingly difficult for even a decent Catholic man to find a single Catholic woman in her 30s. I figured my fortune would change when I moved to the St. Louis area, but it has not–while there are many Catholic women here, the single ones are as fickle as any I have met elsewhere, yet my Protestant friend remains true. I’m not getting any younger and now 4 years after my divorce and in my early 40s see my options for building a new family, based upon Christian faith, becoming more limited the longer I wait. I don’t want to make a decision that would cause me to lose a good girl, or to blow what may be the last chance God has given me to build a Christian family. Decent ladies are hard to find…

Thanks for any helpful replies.

1. As somebody else said, first be the best dad you can to your existing children.
2. There are lots of Catholics in St. Louis and St. Louis University is an excellent place to look (graduate students, faculty and employees).
3. Be prepared for the fact that if you marry a 30-something woman of whatever faith, you may not be able to have more children. Any woman you marry needs to stand on her own merits–would you still marry her knowing you might not be able to have more children?
4. You don’t sound that enthusiastic about the Southern Baptist. At least as you’ve described her, she’s just a warm Christian body.
5. A Southern Baptist woman is going to bring her kids up as Protestants. And why shouldn’t she?
6. Going to Mass occasionally with you is a pretty minimal bar to get over. Not being willing to do that is a sign of pretty major hostility to Catholicism and discomfort with it.
7. You’re going to have a heck of a time selling this woman on NFP, CCD, sacramental preparation for the kids, and family devotions.
8. Can you actually afford a second family with your existing financial obligations?
9. It’s not too late for you to find a Catholic woman of child-bearing age. I give you at least five more years (as long as you have a good job and are reasonably attractive).

Good luck!

 

[CaliLobo]

I’m gonna reiterate a point I’ve made before.

I think Christianity forbids, or at least teaches is very unwise, marriage to a nonbeliever.

Do not be unequally yoked, says the Bible.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (ESV):

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

Practically speaking, you guys are already disagreeing on whether to attend Mass. How much more will you disagree on how to raise children? Can you imagine your wife teaching the children, “Yeah, those traditions that your dad talks about, they don’t really matter. All that matters is the Bible. Tradition should not hinder you from having a relationship with God.”

Why should your children be Catholic when they see a “perfectly good example” of a non-Catholic in their mom?

How about schooling? Catholic school? Not without much friction from your wife regarding finances.

I agree with the previous poster; she will raise the kids Protestant because she is the mom, and childrearing is her domain.

More importantly, will a Protestant wife help you be a better Catholic? I don’t think so. More likely, she will complain about how you’re not willing to use condoms even within marriage. She will likely try to charm you into having sex with condoms. When this doesn’t work, she will consider this a bone of contention, and stir up friction.

Remember, there is NO moral issue with the pill for Protestants. Protestant churches ask during marriage prep what kind of birth control you will use, because after all, the New Testament doesn’t forbid birth control! She will be OFFENDED if you try to talk her out of the pill.

What if she, because of her Protestant missions mindset, tries to convert you to Protestantism?

We can already see how a Protestant-Catholic marriage is very unwise. As far as marriage is concerned, Protestantism and Catholicism are different religions.

MacQ:

I ask that because I know many catholics who have married non-catholics…who later (sometimes after many years) became catholic themselves. But most of them I think were not very fully committed to their own churches. Some of them became catholic in spite of their families telling them they’d go to hell for it. (That takes some courage)
She doesn’t have to become catholic (now, or ever) for you to have a good marriage…but if she would refuse marriage prep, a catholic wedding, or catholic kid raising, I’d say those would not bode well for a good match.

Good point. I’m always very suspicious of those who “convert” due to marriage. I’ve even seen threads on CAF that jokingly mention priests who assume that no one converts on his own, and that the only converts these days are those that marry Catholics. But what’s the point of conversion if it’s not a real conversion? Better to be honest with yourself.

 

[jmcrae]

True. And some of them are married to Catholics. Just because your spouse is Catholic is no guarantee that your life will be regret-free.

Good point. Marriage is difficult even under the most ideal of circumstances. Why add difficulties to difficulty?

 

[MacQ]

I’m gonna reiterate a point I’ve made before.

I think Christianity forbids, or at least teaches is very unwise, marriage to a nonbeliever..

I might point out that Southern Baptists ARE Christians. They are certainly NOT “non-believers”.

I agree with the previous poster; she will raise the kids Protestant because she is the mom, and childrearing is her domain..

That’s an assumption. You’d have to ask the lady about her intentions.
I know many protestants married to catholics who are quite ok raising the kids catholic.

Good point. I’m always very suspicious of those who “convert” due to marriage. I’ve even seen threads on CAF that jokingly mention priests who assume that no one converts on his own, and that the only converts these days are those that marry Catholics. But what’s the point of conversion if it’s not a real conversion? Better to be honest with yourself.

There’s another assumption on your part.

I can tell you that being married (or in some cases engaged) to a catholic is many times what brings people to RCIA. By the end of the process, they are asked to discern whether if the reason they came no longer existed, would they still do it?
I have never known anyone who went thru a good RCIA process who didn’t convert for their own spiritual reasons when the time came to commit.
What BRINGS a person to RCIA (or to enquire about conversion) doesn’t matter.

I hope you will reconsider your blanket notion that someone who converted didn’t have a real conversion if they happened to be married to a catholic.

 

[MacQ]

Good point. Marriage is difficult even under the most ideal of circumstances. Why add difficulties to difficulty?

I don’t think that was her point.
I think her point was refuting the idea that simply marrying another catholic guarantees a happy marriage.
There are protestants I’d sooner be married to than some of the catholics I know.

 

[Xantippe]

That’s an assumption. You’d have to ask the lady about her intentions.
I know many protestants married to catholics who are quite ok raising the kids catholic.

That’s a dangerous bet, though, when dealing with somebody who hasn’t yet darkened the door of a Catholic Church.

A full course of RCIA for information (rather than necessarily conversion) is a bare minimum for this situation.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think that was her point.
I think her point was refuting the idea that simply marrying another catholic guarantees a happy marriage.

I got her point. I was taking it to its logical conclusion. Just because not all Catholic marriages are happy, doesn’t mean it “doesn’t matter” when you throw monkey wrenches into the works to mess up the parts that do work.

There are protestants I’d sooner be married to than some of the catholics I know.

The choice is not between bad Catholics and good Protestants.

The question is, how do you remove the obstacles between yourself, your loved ones, and Heaven? Sometimes, it might mean not making any choice at all, but rather, remaining single.

 

[MacQ]

That’s a dangerous bet, though, when dealing with somebody who hasn’t yet darkened the door of a Catholic Church.

A full course of RCIA for information (rather than necessarily conversion) is a bare minimum for this situation.

Sorry, I beg to differ.
I have been involved with our RCIA for over 12 years now, so I an quite familiar with the backgrounds of those who come to convert (including my own), having now known several hundred of them.

I can tell you it is not at all unusual for non-catholics to help raise catholic kids with their catholic spouse and yet attend Mass infrequently if at all. It is not unusual for someone to enter RCIA after doing that and being married for 30 or 40 years. In some cases, we’ve seen them sponsored by one of their grown children. That’s a beautiful thing.

I strongly suggest catholic marriage prep for anyone marrying a catholic (including another catholic).
But demanding a full year of RCIA…good luck with that. That’s overdoing it.
They’re not marrying Attila the Hun for cryin’ out loud.

 

[MacQ]

I got her point. I was taking it to its logical conclusion. Just because not all Catholic marriages are happy, doesn’t mean it “doesn’t matter” when you throw monkey wrenches into the works to mess up the parts that do work.

The choice is not between bad Catholics and good Protestants.

The question is, how do you remove the obstacles between yourself, your loved ones, and Heaven? Sometimes, it might mean not making any choice at all, but rather, remaining single.

Marrying a non-Catholic doesn’t always constitute a monkey wrench. Not always an obstacle either.
There are a myriad of worse pitfalls than not being catholic.
Actually, one of the most solid marriages I know of is between a catholic and a jew.
And of the divorced catholics I know, many are divorced from other catholics.

I’m just saying that we should not make blanket judgments, as there are many factors in any given relationship that are too complex to throw a biased blanket on.

 

[Xantippe]

Sorry, I beg to differ.
I have been involved with our RCIA for over 12 years now, so I an quite familiar with the backgrounds of those who come to convert (including my own), having now known several hundred of them.

I can tell you it is not at all unusual for non-catholics to help raise catholic kids with their catholic spouse and yet attend Mass infrequently if at all. It is not unusual for someone to enter RCIA after doing that and being married for 30 or 40 years. In some cases, we’ve seen them sponsored by one of their grown children. That’s a beautiful thing.

I strongly suggest catholic marriage prep for anyone marrying a catholic (including another catholic).
But demanding a full year of RCIA…good luck with that. That’s overdoing it.
They’re not marrying Attila the Hun for cryin’ out loud.

There could be a lot of hostility and ignorance.

Minimally, the OP’s girlfriend would need to read a book or two so she’d understand exactly what religion the OP proposes to raise his kids in.

Also, how does she feel about icons and sacramentals in her home? A lot of women are very, very particular about the contents of their homes.

 

[MacQ]

There could be a lot of hostility and ignorance.

Minimally, the OP’s girlfriend would need to read a book or two so she’d understand exactly what religion the OP proposes to raise his kids in.

Also, how does she feel about icons and sacramentals in her home? A lot of women are very, very particular about the contents of their homes.

Good grief. You’re kinda “booger huntin”.
I’ve seen hostility and ignorance in catholic marriages.
Not all catholics have statues and sacramental in their homes either.

If they want to be married in the catholic church or by a priest, they would have to agree to marriage prep. They should do that regardless. It would sort out the 'boogers".

If she won’t agree to that much, I’d say there’s a problem.

You don’t seem to be very familiar with varied situations or tolerant of them…maybe you need to consider diversifying your friendships. There are actual good human beings outside the catholic church.

 

[jmcrae]

You don’t seem to be very familiar with varied situations or tolerant of them…maybe you need to consider diversifying your friendships. There are actual good human beings outside the catholic church.

If religion isn’t important, then there is no reason for people of different religions not to marry.

It comes down to what’s important. The parties to a marriage need to have all of the important things in common. They don’t need to be “right” in order for the marriage to work, but they do need to agree, first of all about what it is that is important, and then secondly, they need to be in agreement with one another on those issues.

To take (hopefully) a non-controversial example, a couple in which both parties agree that in order to maintain a certain lifestyle, a certain amount of debt is acceptable, will have a happy marriage. If one of the two parties believes strongly that it is morally unacceptable to go into debt for lifestyle reasons, then the marriage will most likely fail - even if both parties are of the same religion.

 

[MacQ]

If religion isn’t important, then there is no reason for people of different religions not to marry.

It comes down to what’s important. The parties to a marriage need to have all of the important things in common. They don’t need to be “right” in order for the marriage to work, but they do need to agree, first of all about what it is that is important, and then secondly, they need to be in agreement with one another on those issues.

To take (hopefully) a non-controversial example, a couple in which both parties agree that in order to maintain a certain lifestyle, a certain amount of debt is acceptable, will have a happy marriage. If one of the two parties believes strongly that it is morally unacceptable to go into debt for lifestyle reasons, then the marriage will most likely fail - even if both parties are of the same religion.

Well, I think religion is very important. Likewise, attitudes toward money and debt are.
I think it behooves people to determine whether there are significant differences in value in those areas (and others).
That may be saying the same thing you did, not sure.
That said, I stand by what I said (in case you were objecting to that), which is that there are good people (indeed good Christians) outside the catholic church.

 

[jmcrae]

That said, I stand by what I said (in case you were objecting to that), which is that there are good people (indeed good Christians) outside the catholic church.

There are a lot of good people in the world; I don’t necessarily want to be making them breakfast every morning for the rest of my life - or attending Mass without them every Sunday for the rest of my life.

 

[PeaceBeWithU]

To the OP,

Relationships are like snowflakes. No two are identical, and therefore it is very difficult to give someone else advice in this area, as their relationship is completely unique.

In response to your question, I think the only person qualified to make a decision about your relationship with the Southern Baptist woman is you.

Nobody on the forum can truly know how you feel about her, or know what her thoughts are on any particular subject. Matchmakers talk about ‘compatibility’ and other such things, but the truth of the matter is that love is a mystery full of nuance. Sometimes opposites attract. Sometimes they don’t. There simply isn’t a worksheet that you can check boxes on in order to find a soul mate. “Oh, she’s Catholic, and she wants kids, and she’s in my age group, and we have the same sports team, oh joy!” Six months into the relationship you may learn that you really just don’t connect with that person. Chemistry between two people is far more than having shared interests or similar backgrounds.

On a side note, being a non-Catholic isn’t necessarily a deal breaker, but as others here have stated, it depends a great deal upon her attitude. My own wife is not a Catholic. She doesn’t go to Mass with me, she doesn’t pray.

On the flip side of the coin, however, she isn’t against my beliefs. She is very supportive of them. She often asks me to pray for her friends or family (while I’ve explained that she can pray for them herself, she simply isnt comfortable doing it). She has attended Mass with me a few times (Christmas and such), and during Lent she remembers to keep meat off the menu during Friday dinners. She gives me peace and quiet when I wish to meditate on the Rosary, understanding that it is hard to concentrate while the TV is blaring, etc.

We’ve talked about child rearing, and she is on-board with raising our future children as Catholics, etc. etc.

In short, she’s the woman I am deeply in love with. Some people would have thought that we were a bad match. I’m very religious, she’s not. I love baseball. She could take it or leave it. I love history and literature. She finds those things boring as watching paint dry. We come from two very different family situations, and have some serious differences in our life philosophies.

Still, we love one another. I wouldn’t trade her for the world. She’s great and I love her, and I can’t wait to spend the rest of my life with her.

Now, if you want to make a pros and cons list, or think deeply about all the things you have in common and things you have different, that’s up to you, but in my humble opinion the only thing that matters is whether you love her enough to want to spend a lifetime with her. Once you can answer that with honesty, I think you’ve got your answer.

 

[MacQ]

There are a lot of good people in the world; I don’t necessarily want to be making them breakfast every morning for the rest of my life - or attending Mass without them every Sunday for the rest of my life.

Good thing not everyone feels that way.
We’d have lots fewer catholics in the world.

 

[MacQ]

To the OP,

Relationships are like snowflakes. No two are identical, and therefore it is very difficult to give someone else advice in this area, as their relationship is completely unique.

In response to your question, I think the only person qualified to make a decision about your relationship with the Southern Baptist woman is you.

Nobody on the forum can truly know how you feel about her, or know what her thoughts are on any particular subject. Matchmakers talk about ‘compatibility’ and other such things, but the truth of the matter is that love is a mystery full of nuance. Sometimes opposites attract. Sometimes they don’t. There simply isn’t a worksheet that you can check boxes on in order to find a soul mate. “Oh, she’s Catholic, and she wants kids, and she’s in my age group, and we have the same sports team, oh joy!” Six months into the relationship you may learn that you really just don’t connect with that person. Chemistry between two people is far more than having shared interests or similar backgrounds.

On a side note, being a non-Catholic isn’t necessarily a deal breaker, but as others here have stated, it depends a great deal upon her attitude. My own wife is not a Catholic. She doesn’t go to Mass with me, she doesn’t pray.

On the flip side of the coin, however, she isn’t against my beliefs. She is very supportive of them. She often asks me to pray for her friends or family (while I’ve explained that she can pray for them herself, she simply isnt comfortable doing it). She has attended Mass with me a few times (Christmas and such), and during Lent she remembers to keep meat off the menu during Friday dinners. She gives me peace and quiet when I wish to meditate on the Rosary, understanding that it is hard to concentrate while the TV is blaring, etc.

We’ve talked about child rearing, and she is on-board with raising our future children as Catholics, etc. etc.

In short, she’s the woman I am deeply in love with. Some people would have thought that we were a bad match. I’m very religious, she’s not. I love baseball. She could take it or leave it. I love history and literature. She finds those things boring as watching paint dry. We come from two very different family situations, and have some serious differences in our life philosophies.

Still, we love one another. I wouldn’t trade her for the world. She’s great and I love her, and I can’t wait to spend the rest of my life with her.

Now, if you want to make a pros and cons list, or think deeply about all the things you have in common and things you have different, that’s up to you, but in my humble opinion the only thing that matters is whether you love her enough to want to spend a lifetime with her. Once you can answer that with honesty, I think you’ve got your answer.

 

[jmcrae]

Good thing not everyone feels that way.
We’d have lots fewer catholics in the world.

Catholic couples are far more likely to have Catholic children than mixed couples - children of mixed couples are statistically more likely to become atheists.

 

[Xantippe]

Good grief. You’re kinda “booger huntin”.
I’ve seen hostility and ignorance in catholic marriages.
Not all catholics have statues and sacramental in their homes either.

If they want to be married in the catholic church or by a priest, they would have to agree to marriage prep. They should do that regardless. It would sort out the 'boogers".

If she won’t agree to that much, I’d say there’s a problem.

You don’t seem to be very familiar with varied situations or tolerant of them…maybe you need to consider diversifying your friendships. There are actual good human beings outside the catholic church.

What kind of Catholic doesn’t have lots of Catholic brickabrack all over? An Our Lady of Guadalupe magnet on the fridge, an icon on the wall, rosaries everywhere. Is that actually allowed? I find that the stuff seems to proliferate seemingly without any effort on our part.

I’m actually from a Pentecostal family, I spent some time in a Southern Baptist church, and we currently live in an area full of Baptists. As they say, “some of my best friends are Protestants!”

I just remember things I’ve seen and heard over the years, and I would encourage the OP to step carefully. One of the funnier ones, looking back, was an Ash Wednesday years ago when I was in InterVarsity and one of the sweet Protestant InterVarsity guys flipped out when he saw a Catholic InterVarsity girl with ashes on her forehead. There are lots of little things like that that if you actually know about it, it won’t bother you, but if you don’t, there may be a big unnecessary freakout and fight.

Come to think of it, I would encourage the OP to figure out what kind of Baptist the girlfriend is. One thing I’ve lived since moving to a super Baptist area is that Baptists are actually incredibly diverse (in our area, we have all kinds, including the Pabst Blue Ribbon Baptists).