marriage trouble

[steph_ramirez]

I am very confused. I love my husband very much, would do anything for him, but he is an alcoholic and i even suspect he is using drugs. I know divorce is a sin, but I don’t know what i can do to get him to change his ways for the safety of our children and the survival of our marriage. does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[vluvski]

Your first responsibility is to ensure your own safety and the safety of your children. If this means physically separating yourself from your husband (with or without a divorce), then you should do so.

Pray for him, and find organizations that could help you with counseling or intervention for his addictions.

I’ll offer prayers for your situation as well.

 

[steph_ramirez]

Thank you

 

[joandarc2008]

Many people jump on the divorce a sin bandwagon - and yes without reason it is - however this is what the CCC actually says rather than what you may have heard:

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.173 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.174

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."175

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.177

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.178

There is also cause for seperation as well:

The fidelity of conjugal love

1646 By its very nature conjugal love requires the inviolable fidelity of the spouses. This is the consequence of the gift of themselves which they make to each other. Love seeks to be definitive; it cannot be an arrangement “until further notice.” The "intimate union of marriage, as a mutual giving of two persons, and the good of the children, demand total fidelity from the spouses and require an unbreakable union between them."155

1647 The deepest reason is found in the fidelity of God to his covenant, in that of Christ to his Church. Through the sacrament of Matrimony the spouses are enabled to represent this fidelity and witness to it. Through the sacrament, the indissolubility of marriage receives a new and deeper meaning.

1648 It can seem difficult, even impossible, to bind oneself for life to another human being. This makes it all the more important to proclaim the Good News that God loves us with a definitive and irrevocable love, that married couples share in this love, that it supports and sustains them, and that by their own faithfulness they can be witnesses to God’s faithful love. Spouses who with God’s grace give this witness, often in very difficult conditions, deserve the gratitude and support of the ecclesial community.156

1649 *Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble.157 *

1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"158 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

*1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:

They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God’s grace.159 *

 

[tee_eff_em]

I am very confused. I love my husband very much, would do anything for him, but he is an alcoholic and i even suspect he is using drugs. I know divorce is a sin, but I don’t know what i can do to get him to change his ways for the safety of our children and the survival of our marriage. does anyone have any experience with this?

Does your husband acknowledge that there is a problem? Does he want to repair it? ie: Would he do anything for you?

Retrouvaille

tee
Who has no experience with it, but has great respect for the program

 

[steph_ramirez]

He believes that I am making a big deal out of the situation. He does not think that he has a problem.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am very confused. I love my husband very much, would do anything for him, but he is an alcoholic and i even suspect he is using drugs. I know divorce is a sin, but I don’t know what i can do to get him to change his ways for the safety of our children and the survival of our marriage. does anyone have any experience with this?

even though divorce may be objectively sinful, it may be allowed in certain cases where the spouses must separate to insure the physical safety and the welfare of the spouses and children. That usually means at least in this country a civil divorce, and no it would not be sinful in that case. Talk this over with your priest, and get a good lawyer. Call Al-Anon and get advice on how to intervene with an alcoholic spouse, but do realize the separation may indeed be necessary. If you don’t think you are a good judge of the situation, and whether or not he does pose a threat, the Al-Anon people can help you immensely in making that judgement and in learning to deal.

He believes that I am making a big deal out of the situation. He does not think that he has a problem.

that is the typical attitude of an alcoholic or addict, get help for yourself from Al-Anon

 

[flyingfish]

I am very confused. I love my husband very much, would do anything for him, but he is an alcoholic and i even suspect he is using drugs. I know divorce is a sin, but I don’t know what i can do to get him to change his ways for the safety of our children and the survival of our marriage. does anyone have any experience with this?

Divorce itself is not a sin, it’s a sin to marry another person while remaining in a valid marriage.

It might even be a sin for you to remain in the same house with an alcoholic and drug user if he poses a threat to your safety and the safety of your children. The Chuch allows civil divorce and separation in such cases.

Was he like this when you married him? It might be that you are in an invalid marriage because an alcoholic may not even be capable of a valid marriage due to being unable to fulfill the obligations of a marriage. Talk to a priest about this.

 

[joandarc2008]

I think the important thing to think about when looking at the situation is to ask yourself, “Would I want my kids to be in this type of marriage?” Most likely they will grow up to be in the type o fmarriage that you show them as the example. Whether or not you divorce, seperate, work things out, apply for annullment you need to see a priest about.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Does your husband acknowledge that there is a problem? Does he want to repair it? ie: Would he do anything for you?

Alcoholism is a disease. One of the symptoms of the disease is denial. His drinking has nothing to do with his love or lack of love for you. Alanon is great advice. They have been there. They will teach you how to “Detach with love”.

Alcoholism is a family disease. The entire family, including yourself, is effected. You also need help. You cannot make him change. You can only help yourself. If your diagnosis is correct and you are living with an alcoholic, then you need help.

I have known couples who stayed together while one, the other, or both were active in their disease. After recovery takes place things are better than they ever could have imagined. However, there is a less than average chance of recovery. Many people in your shoes leave and cut their losses.

The main thing you can do to help you and your husband is pray. It is said that only a combination of prayer and pain will bring a person to recovery. The more prayer - the less pain.

 

[royal_archer]

He believes that I am making a big deal out of the situation. He does not think that he has a problem.

Before you make any life altering decisions you will want to be sure you are on firm ground. Not saying this is the case, but something you should consider:

Do others around you also see his drinking as a problem? You want to be sure you have some objective criteria for what constitutes a drinking problem. I know someon who’s father was an alcoholic who now considers any drinking to be a problem and I know some people who consider a six pack a night to be OK (12 pack on weekend nights). If your criteria of too much is less than what is perceived as “normal” in his circle you my be comming off as unreasonable. Is there a chance you are being unreasonable? If not then can you get others from your social circle to help him come to a realization that he crossed the line?

(I consider the line more than two drinks and driving or more than three drinks a night total or getting drunk)

Even if someone drinks more than they should, drinking in itself is not normally the problem. It is normally the resulting behavior. Have you and he discussed his specific behavior that results from drinking?

Have you talked with a third party councelor (someone who won’t come into the discussion taking sides)?

If there is safety issue you will want to consider a lawyer or womens support group but becarefull you do not get associated with people who profit or otherwise thrive on divorce. Also be carefull or the male bashing groups who will push you toward divorce and not try to help you reconcile.

As other posters have said legal separation or divorce in itself is not the moral problem if it is being sought for moral reasons. It is a moral problem if it is being sought in order to pursue an “other love interest”, which does not seem to be the case here.

 

[Mark77]

Many people jump on the divorce a sin bandwagon - and yes without reason it is - however this is what the CCC actually says rather than what you may have heard:

There is also cause for seperation as well:

Make sure you focus on the “civil divorce” term, as it clearly says “2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law.” & "2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society."

Civil divorce is only a last resort for legal, not moral reason alone. “If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.”

**There is no divorce in the eyes of God! Jesus commands us; “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mt 19:6). **

Sounds pretty clear to me!

**Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
**
mark

 

[tedfay]

As other posters have pointed out, divorce might sometimes be justified - but it is a truly grave matter and requires a truly grave reason to carry out.

Divorce will cause enormous pain. I know I’ve been through it, along with an anullment. Do not assume things will get better.

That being said, alcoholism and drug abuse are very bad. However, if he is not physically abusing you or the children then you might consider staying and trying to help him come out of his plight through prayer, fasting, and penance for the both of you. Remember that your marriage vows require you to look after him - and that means even if he is not honoring his vows to you. That can be a cross, but uniting your sufferings to Jesus’ cross for the salvation of your husband can be meritorious for both you and him.

I strongly recommend that you seek spiritual counseling from an *orthodox *priest, and also secular counseling from a licensed professional Catholic counselor who is faithful to the Magesterium.

You are in my prayers.

God Bless,

 

[puzzleannie]

Just to clarify
divorce is not your next step
discerning the alcohol problem with the help of those with the most experience who can give you the best guidance is your first priority.

 

[joandarc2008]

Just to clarify
divorce is not your next step
discerning the alcohol problem with the help of those with the most experience who can give you the best guidance is your first priority.

I agree and i apologize if I did not make clear - just take a deep breath and seek guidance. My point is that sometimes we need to look and read what is there for ourselves as well and then remember that whatever we do we must do it within God’s plan for us and His teachings.

 

[dashso40]

Living with an alcoholic/drug addict is not something you should do. It can be dangerous for you and your children. Unless he seeks help, you should not be living with him. Start making a plan now for living on your own, like start planning financially to support yourself if need be…You can tell an addict that he/she needs help but unless they admit it to themselves that they need help, they will never recover. Good luck, God bless you.

 

[royal_archer]

Living with an alcoholic/drug addict is not something you should do. It can be dangerous for you and your children. Unless he seeks help, you should not be living with him. Start making a plan now for living on your own, like start planning financially to support yourself if need be…You can tell an addict that he/she needs help but unless they admit it to themselves that they need help, they will never recover. Good luck, God bless you.

It may be an over exageration to imply that all alcoholics are dagerous. Alcoholic is also a term that is often mis used based on the users interpretation. Some non drinkers consider anyone who drinks any amount to be alcoholics.

 

[tedfay]

Living with an alcoholic/drug addict is not something you should do. It can be dangerous for you and your children. Unless he seeks help, you should not be living with him. Start making a plan now for living on your own, like start planning financially to support yourself if need be…You can tell an addict that he/she needs help but unless they admit it to themselves that they need help, they will never recover. Good luck, God bless you.

Be cautious about giving out advice that can totally ruin somebody’s life, and for someone someone you don’t know. For you it’s an easy “good luck, God bless,” but it’s her very life. Divorce is also a very grave matter and should only be undertaken if truly necessary.

That might or might not be the case here. We don’t have all the facts, nor are we entitled to the facts. Even if you yourself have experience with this type of cross, that doesn’t mean that the same thing will happen here.

I’ve dealt with drug addicts and alcoholics, and they can be extremely challenging. I agree they won’t get better without them deciding to change - but even if the addict won’t change that doesn’t mean that divorce is necessarily required.

I’ve also been through a divorce. It’s horrible. That means the OP is between a rock and a hard place. I have the deepest sympathy for her, as I’m sure we all do.

The OP should weigh her serious maritial obligations and vows with her responsibility to her children against the possibility that continuing to live with her husband will result in serious harm to her and her children. She should seek in-depth counseling from an orthodox priest and a professional Catholic counselor before making such a weighty decision.

We should also pray that her husband will convert and seek professional help for his addictions.

 

[dashso40]

Be cautious about giving out advice that can totally ruin somebody’s life, and for someone someone you don’t know. For you it’s an easy “good luck, God bless,” but it’s her very life. Divorce is also a very grave matter and should only be undertaken if truly necessary.

That might or might not be the case here. We don’t have all the facts, nor are we entitled to the facts. Even if you yourself have experience with this type of cross, that doesn’t mean that the same thing will happen here.

I’ve dealt with drug addicts and alcoholics, and they can be extremely challenging. I agree they won’t get better without them deciding to change - but even if the addict won’t change that doesn’t mean that divorce is necessarily required.

I’ve also been through a divorce. It’s horrible. That means the OP is between a rock and a hard place. I have the deepest sympathy for her, as I’m sure we all do.

The OP should weigh her serious maritial obligations and vows with her responsibility to her children against the possibility that continuing to live with her husband will result in serious harm to her and her children. She should seek in-depth counseling from an orthodox priest and a professional Catholic counselor before making such a weighty decision.

We should also pray that her husband will convert and seek professional help for his addictions.

My father died at 39 from alcoholism…My mother divorced him 2 years before he died, he did not want help. Leaving him was hard but living with him was much worse. True, I don’t know this person but I speak from personal experience. Living with an alcoholic stinks

 

[royal_archer]

My father died at 39 from alcoholism…My mother divorced him 2 years before he died, he did not want help. Leaving him was hard but living with him was much worse. True, I don’t know this person but I speak from personal experience. Living with an alcoholic stinks

Still it is painting with a wide brush. I know alcoholics who are decent, kind people.