Marriage: Who Benefits More?

[Prodigal_Son]

A woman parenting her children without their father, OTOH, is something else again. There are far too many of those unfortunate women and children in the world.

Agreed.

 

[Rence]

My wife has always been a bit of a glass-is-half-empty sort of person while I am more the opposite. So I was not entirely surprised when she said that she thinks men get more out of marriage than women do.

And I’ve seen some studies that suggest this is true in some regards. For example, single men have shorter life spans and live unhealthy lives and tend to be involved in vice of various sorts. Single women, on the other hand, are usually pursuing a career.

I suspect a lot of the studies on the benefits of marriage for men are intended to persuade young men as they are the ones avoiding it. (Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free, as the saying goes.)

She is still for marriage but I am a little worried that her opinion might influecne our daughters against marriage.

Does anyone know of any studies that discuss the benefits of marriage for women?

That all depends on the woman. As for me, I have a great job that I love and have no plans to retire early. I plan to work in my career for as long as I can. I own my own home, farm even, and have negotiated help with farming tasks that I cannot do on my own. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life and God has blessed me thus far. I’m waiting for the other shoe to fall. I love my life.

I am my mother’s caregiver, full time. When I am not working, I am with her (or at least at home where I can tend her). When I am at work, a caregiver comes to the house to watch her. Said caregiver likes the animals and will even do some light farming chores

So, I don’t need a man for my financial wellbeing.

For me, I’d like to eventually get married later for companionship and the love you can only get from a spouse. That may or may not happen. If I died today, the only regret I would have is leaving my mom and animals behind. If I die after all that is straightened out, I will die very happy. If I get married later fine, if I don’t, that’s fine too.

My only worry is that if I live long, I may not be able to care for myself and may end up homeless, in a nursing home, group home, etc. That’s a real fear of mine and I pray every day that God takes me before that ever happens. I fear that one day I will get old or sick , or disabled, and will lose my farm and animals. That scenario would be the worst ever and I fear it every day. Some people say that having kids would prevent that. I say not. I’ve seen plenty of people end up homeless, in group homes, or alone in nursing homes with a lot of resources in the form of family to coordinate with. Having kids is absolutely no guarantee that someone will care for you when you’re old.

So marriage is a benefit for someone who needs it as a benefit. And everyone is different. I would benefit from it for the companionship and the intimacy, and to share the farming life with. That would be kinda cool actually. But it’s not like I need it to survive.

 

[EasterJoy]

That all depends on the woman. As for me, I have a great job that I love and have no plans to retire early. I plan to work in my career for as long as I can. I own my own home, farm even, and have negotiated help with farming tasks that I cannot do on my own. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life and God has blessed me thus far. I’m waiting for the other shoe to fall. I love my life.

I am my mother’s caregiver, full time. When I am not working, I am with her (or at least at home where I can tend her). When I am at work, a caregiver comes to the house to watch her. Said caregiver likes the animals and will even do some light farming chores

So, I don’t need a man for my financial wellbeing.

For me, I’d like to eventually get married later for companionship and the love you can only get from a spouse. That may or may not happen. If I died today, the only regret I would have is leaving my mom and animals behind. If I die after all that is straightened out, I will die very happy. If I get married later fine, if I don’t, that’s fine too.

My only worry is that if I live long, I may not be able to care for myself and may end up homeless, in a nursing home, group home, etc. That’s a real fear of mine and I pray every day that God takes me before that ever happens. I fear that one day I will get old or sick , or disabled, and will lose my farm and animals. That scenario would be the worst ever and I fear it every day. Some people say that having kids would prevent that. I say not. I’ve seen plenty of people end up homeless, in group homes, or alone in nursing homes with a lot of resources in the form of family to coordinate with. Having kids is absolutely no guarantee that someone will care for you when you’re old. In the Christian world view, the unmarried will lack a person with whom to give themselves sexually in a holy way, but except for that they ought not lack other people to love them!

So marriage is a benefit for someone who needs it as a benefit. And everyone is different. I would benefit from it for the companionship and the intimacy, and to share the farming life with. That would be kinda cool actually. But it’s not like I need it to survive.

I wouldn’t word it quite the way you are wording it. Marriage is not meant primarily as a benefit to you. It is supposed to be a benefit to those to whom you can give a benefit, one of the states in life through which a Christian might serve God by loving service of neighbor. A Christian who does not marry will do as you do, putting her hands at the service of those who need her. The Holy Scriptures are full of admonitions concerning the duty that the well-off have towards those who cannot take care of themselves. The point of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was not that Lazarus ought to have had children to care for him, after all! When she is unable to care for herself, the Christians around an old person who can’t see to her own care ought to see to it that care is provided for her.

It was the opinion of St. Paul that you have chosen the better part, because you are less divided than someone with a spouse, and can serve the Lord with your whole heart. Still, he allowed that each one has his own gift, and that married life could certainly be a holy state in which to live. His question, though, would have been something like this: Ask not what some state in life can do for you. Ask what you can do for God from your state in life.

 

[Rence]

I wouldn’t word it quite the way you are wording it. Marriage is not meant primarily as a benefit to you. It is supposed to be a benefit to those to whom you can give a benefit,

I was answering in the context of the original post from the perspective of a woman (like the OP’s daughter). Marriage to me is a mutual give and take. Marriage is meant to benefit both parties. And marriage is meant to give of yourself to another, for both parties.

one of the states in life through which a Christian might serve God by loving service of neighbor. A Christian who does not marry will do as you do, putting her hands at the service of those who need her. The Holy Scriptures are full of admonitions concerning the duty that the well-off have towards those who cannot take care of themselves. The point of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was not that Lazarus ought to have had children to care for him, after all! When she is unable to care for herself, the Christians around an old person who can’t see to her own care ought to see to it that care is provided for her.

Unfortunately, that’s not always the way it works out in the real world. And that’s one of my fears for myself.

It was the opinion of St. Paul that you have chosen the better part, because you are less divided than someone with a spouse, and can serve the Lord with your whole heart. Still, he allowed that each one has his own gift, and that married life could certainly be a holy state in which to live. His question, though, would have been something like this: Ask not what some state in life can do for you. Ask what you can do for God from your state in life.

Well, I am in complete disagreement with Paul with the above. It’s not a “better part” it’s just “a part”, and some will chose to be caregivers and be married with kids and a job (like my mom did before me) and some will chose to be caregivers and be single (like I’m doing it now). I don’t think either one is “better”, they’re both just “better” for someone.

Also, I wouldn’t say that I am less divided than someone with a spouse. I just have other priorities that take up my time. I don’t have a spouse, however, I have a full time career and a farm with many animals and task that go along with it. It would be nice to have someone in my life to share in the joys and responsibilities of living my lifestyle, and someone who would love it just as much as I do. But that’s not the case right now.

I would like a husband, just later in life

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

You mention you are concerned about your daughters. Your wife probably got the exact same number of daughters out of your marriage as you did. While husband and wife both get something out of marriage,** those who benefit the most are children.**

This is an excellent point, thank you. I think she would be quite shocked if our children gave into the modern trend of having children out of wedlock. I don’t think she’s thinking about grandchildren yet but maybe it’s a good topic to raise now.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this discussion.

I think we all agree that there is more to marriage than who benefits but that doesn’t mean that who benefits is not important. And I’m glad gardenswithkids reminded us that children benefit most. (I’m not sure what is more sad, marriage without children or children without marriage.)

That said, and with all due respect for values and differences, it does seems as if most agree that men benefit more (in large part because married men are less stupid for varoius reasons).

I am satisfied that my original question has been answered but now I have another: if it is widely agreed that men benefit more why are men still more reluctant to marry than women? By all accounts, the “marriage market” is dominated by women seeking husbands. (Insert stereotypes about men avoiding commitment here.)

Could it be that men are overvaluing bachelorhood or fear change or do women have unrealistic expectations of marriage?

 

[EasterJoy]

…Well, I am in complete disagreement with Paul with the above. It’s not a “better part” it’s just “a part”, and some will chose to be caregivers and be married with kids and a job (like my mom did before me) and some will chose to be caregivers and be single (like I’m doing it now). I don’t think either one is “better”, they’re both just “better” for someone.

Also, I wouldn’t say that I am less divided than someone with a spouse. I just have other priorities that take up my time. I don’t have a spouse, however, I have a full time career and a farm with many animals and task that go along with it. It would be nice to have someone in my life to share in the joys and responsibilities of living my lifestyle, and someone who would love it just as much as I do. But that’s not the case right now.

I would like a husband, just later in life

If memory serves, the Apostle did say he was speaking for himself, and not for the Lord, when he gave advice about marriage. He wanted the faithful to devote themselves to works of charity, including the care of widows and orphans and other poor people, as if Our Lord might return at any moment. In St. Paul’s mind, either you were married and had some part of your brain devoted to pleasing your spouse while the rest was dedicated to God or else you were unmarried and as a Christian had 100% of your mind devoted to pleasing God. Taking care of the manual labor allotted to you was simply part of your service to God. I don’t think they were in the sort of circumstance that thought in terms of “personal lifestyle”.

 

[LongingSoul]

I am satisfied that my original question has been answered but now I have another: if it is widely agreed that men benefit more why are men still more reluctant to marry than women? By all accounts, the “marriage market” is dominated by women seeking husbands. (Insert stereotypes about men avoiding commitment here.)

Could it be that men are overvaluing bachelorhood or fear change or do women have unrealistic expectations of marriage?

I’m going to stay with the generalisation because I think that is important to address your question. They say that females mature faster than males and you do see that females are more ready to ‘nest’ significantly earlier than males are ready to ‘provide’. It reminds me of that old saying among girls… ‘you have to chase a man until he catches you’.

I know this is going to draw some fire, but when a couple marry, especially in teens and early 20’s and later for some, the female who has offspring often senses the need to tame and train the male for this new role. There is a strong maternal role in the making of the secure family environment. I think ideally the male paternal role develops gradually to peak when the offspring hit the teenage years and are more protected in their development by paternal discipline and boundaries.

At the point where the offspring fly the nest, the male and female roles seem to even out or sometimes the male takes on a greater share of practical duties. That’s what I’ve noticed in my family of older relatives. It all evens out in the end. The worst scenario I’ve noticed is if one or the other continues to hold on to bitterness and never let the natural ebb and flow happen to smooth out the inequalities that have marked the different phases of a whole lifetime of marriage.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I am satisfied that my original question has been answered but now I have another: if it is widely agreed that men benefit more why are men still more reluctant to marry than women? By all accounts, the “marriage market” is dominated by women seeking husbands. (Insert stereotypes about men avoiding commitment here.)

Could it be that men are overvaluing bachelorhood or fear change or do women have unrealistic expectations of marriage?

I believe we all have phases in life that determine what is important. Shortly after leaving home the Bachelor phase is filled with freedom to do just about anything and be accountable to no one on earth. In fact, during that phase marriage seemed like the worst idea for a man. Trading the new found “freedom” for a longer, healthier, fulfilling life didn’t seem worth it back then.

To some great degree the change is when one considers getting married as a concept vs meeting someone and getting feeling the inexplicable urge to marry that woman.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

benefits that it brings to men, and that women come out on the short end. Unfortunately that is a poison that some women in the feminist movement have brought into our society that has come to permeate many generations. God’s purpose for marriage is also a spiritual one…
I can appreciate your concern but she is not looking at it strictly in those terms. She has simply commented that men get more worldly benefits than women and I chose to focus on that comment here.

That said, I think it is perhaps even more obvious that men benefit spiritually more than women simply for the fact that single men (who don’t join the clergy) are not only more likely to engage in risky behavior but also more likely to engage in sinful behaviors.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I believe we all have phases in life that determine what is important. Shortly after leaving home the Bachelor phase is filled with freedom to do just about anything and be accountable to no one on earth. In fact, during that phase marriage seemed like the worst idea for a man. Trading the new found “freedom” for a longer, healthier, fulfilling life didn’t seem worth it back then.

To some great degree the change is when one considers getting married as a concept vs meeting someone and getting feeling the inexplicable urge to marry that woman.

So my OP was centered on concern about daughters but now my thoughts turn to sons.

We were married young by modern standards so while I am familiar with the above I can’t say that I have much personal experience with it.

Maybe those posting in this thread complaining about the worldly focus of my quesitons are right, just focus on the spiritual angle and let the cards fall where they may. But people make decisions, especially big ones like marriage, on the basis of many factors and certainly worldly concerns will be among them.

I have read a lot recently about young men trapped in extended adolescence. Is this inexplicable urge to marry really diminishing?

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I am satisfied that my original question has been answered but now I have another: if it is widely agreed that men benefit more why are men still more reluctant to marry than women? By all accounts, the “marriage market” is dominated by women seeking husbands. (Insert stereotypes about men avoiding commitment here.)

Could it be that men are overvaluing bachelorhood or fear change or do women have unrealistic expectations of marriage?

Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Anyway, this video gives a more detailed answer but that is the whole gist of the argument if you don’t have time to watch.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Anyway, this video gives a more detailed answer but that is the whole gist of the argument if you don’t have time to watch.

I’m sure that will attract some brickbats. But it does explain a lot.

 

[styrgwillidar]

So my OP was centered on concern about daughters but now my thoughts turn to sons.

We were married young by modern standards so while I am familiar with the above I can’t say that I have much personal experience with it.

Maybe those posting in this thread complaining about the worldly focus of my quesitons are right, just focus on the spiritual angle and let the cards fall where they may. But people make decisions, especially big ones like marriage, on the basis of many factors and certainly worldly concerns will be among them.

I have read a lot recently about young men trapped in extended adolescence. Is this inexplicable urge to marry really diminishing?

Sorry, I don’t see it as having anything to do with extended adolescence. I think it has more to do with no fault divorce and the way it tears families apart, particularly men from their children. Its a matter of realism, dealing with marriage/divorce as it currently exists in the US.

All of my son’s friends have a negative view of marriage - not based on marriage itself, but on what happens in divorce. How they saw their fathers, with me being the exception, of having virtually no contact with their kids. With the women having all the cards, even when bringing other men into the situation. They do not expect loyalty from women as they have no first-hand experience of this as a reality. They see marriage as an enormous risk with very little upside for them.

 

[marymary1975]

Well I have a little trouble with the idea of who gets “the benefit of the marriage” as I feel that getting married to obtain a “benefit” is a negative mentality. I don’t know where I read that marriage in the beginning is an empty box in which both people have to put into the empty box in order to take something out. If any of the people go to the marriage with the idea that they are going to get into the marriage to take a benefit out of the box they are going to be very unhappy because the box will be empty. Marriage should be something in which both parties put in order to grow in spiritual health and to be better. If only one is putting in and the other is taking it all or if one goes in with the unrealistic expectation that marriage is going to bring them benefits they may be in trouble.

Now I can see why your wife makes that statement, too many women get the burden today of having to do everything in the marriage while the husband does very little (again one side is putting everything while the other is taking it) and that makes some women to look at it as a burden. I think that as long as you make clear to your daughters that not all marriages are like that, that there are many happy marriages in which both give, that they can have very happy marriages and you point out to them the importance of making a wise discernment as to who are they going to marry to and to marriage in general, the statement that your wife made will have very little influence.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well I have a little trouble with the idea of who gets “the benefit of the marriage” as I feel that getting married to obtain a “benefit” is a negative mentality…

This is a comment Pope Francis had to make about this subject (boldface mine; speech of Oct 4, 2013):

Nicola and Chiara Volpi (Perugia-Città della Pieve)
“We young people live in a society where feeling good, having fun and thinking of oneself is central. Living married life as young Christians is complex, and being open to life is often challenging and frightening. As a young couple, we feel the joy of living out our marriage, but we also experience its daily struggles and challenges. How can the Church help us, how can our pastors support us, and what steps are we called to make?”

I am glad that the first question came from a young married couple. What a beautiful witness! Two young people who have chosen, who have joyfully and courageously decided to form a family. Yes, it is so true that it takes courage to form a family. It takes courage! And your question, young spouses, is linked to the question of vocation. What is marriage? It is a true and authentic vocation, as are the priesthood and the religious life. Two Christians who marry have recognized the call of the Lord in their own love story, the vocation to form one flesh and one life from two, male and female. And the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony envelops this love in the grace of God, it roots it in God himself. By this gift, and by the certainty of this call, you can continue on assured; you have nothing to fear; you can face everything together!

Let us think about our parents, about our grandparents and great grandparents: they married in much poorer conditions than our own. Some married during wartime or just after a war. Some like my own parents emigrated. Where did they find the strength? They found it in the certainty that the Lord was with them, that their families were blessed by God through the Sacrament of Matrimony, and that the mission of bringing children into the world and educating them is also blessed. With this assurance they overcame even the most difficult trials. These were simple certainties, but they were real; they were the pillars that supported their love. Their lives were not easy; there were problems, many, many problems. However, these simple assurances helped them to go forward. And they succeeded in having beautiful families, and in giving life and in raising their children.

Dear friends, this moral and spiritual foundation is necessary in order to build well in a lasting way! Today, this foundation is no longer guaranteed by family life and the social tradition. Indeed, the society in which you were raised favours individual rights rather than the family — these individual rights. It favours relationships that last until difficulties arise, and this is why it sometimes speaks about relationships between couples, within families and between spouses in a superficial and misleading way. It is enough to watch certain television programs to see these values on display! How many times parish priests — sometimes I myself also heard it — hear a couple that comes to get married say: “But you both know that marriage is for life?” **“Ah, we love each other so much, but… we’ll stay together as long as the love lasts. When it ends, we’ll each go our separate way”. This is selfishness: when I feel like it, I’ll end the marriage and forget the “one flesh” that cannot be separated. It is risky to get married: it is risky! It is this egoism which threatens it, because we each have within us this possibility of a dual personality: the one that says, “I am free, I want this …” and the other which says, “I, me, to me, with me, for me …”. Selfishness always returns and does not know how to open up to others. **The other difficulty is this culture of the temporary: it seems as though nothing is definitive. Everything is provisional. As I said before: love, as long as it lasts. I once heard a seminarian — a good person — say: “I want to become a priest, but for ten years. Then I’ll rethink it.” This is the culture of the temporary, and Jesus didn’t save us temporarily: he saved us definitively!

However, the Holy Spirit is always stirring up new answers to new needs! Thus, programs for engaged couples, marriage preparation courses, parish groups for young couples and family movements have been multiplying in the Church. They are an immense wealth! They are reference points for everyone: young people searching, couples in crisis, parents having difficulties with their children or vice versa. They help everyone! And then there are the different forms of acceptance: foster care, adoption, family homes of various kinds. The imagination — if I may use that word — the imagination of the Holy Spirit is infinite but very practical! And so I wish to tell you to not be afraid to take definitive steps: do not be afraid to take them. How many times I have heard mothers tell me: “But, Father, I have a son who is 30 years old and he won’t get married. I don’t know what to do! He has a beautiful girlfriend, but he won’t make up his mind”. Well, Madame, stop ironing his shirts! That’s how it is! Do not be afraid to take steps which are permanent, like getting married: deepen your love by respecting its seasons and expressions, pray, prepare yourselves well; and then trust that the Lord will not leave you alone! Let him come into your home like one of the family, He will always sustain you! …